bidding a job.

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Not sure if this is where I should post this here or in another forum. I have a chance to bid on fabricating some large stainless steel bread racks for a bakery where I use to work. My ? is how should I estimate the labor? The material cost will be around $1000.00 a rack. Would $1000.00 in labor be out of line. These will be complete bread racks with removable shelves. I also will be fabricating the shelves. I will probably have about 15 hours in time per rack. Any help on estimating labor would be appreciated  Kevin
Reply:http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=4020here is a fairly recent discussion of pricing.  If you have an hourly estimate, you may just want to multiply by a reasonable hourly rate, though.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:$1000 does not sound out of line.  Though I do not know what you will have to do to complete the job.  Look at some catalogs of similar products.I did a cabinet for a valet service back in May.  I charged $1000 above the material and finishing cost.  I wasn't sure how to bid it-so I started with $1000 then added metal prep, material and finishing cost to that.  I had about 20 hours in it.  I am not set up to do sheet metal work.  I got my local ventor to shear all the pieces for me.
Reply:Here is my take, don't charge him for an hourly rate or labor.    Instead charge him for the product and keep the information on how you came up with the price private.   When you go to the bread store you don't ask to see the wage rate of the baker.    Same here give the customer a product cost amd maybe a deliverytime.    They really don't need much more.Now the question becomes how do you factor your labor and profit in to the price.    I think at the very least you need to estimate how many hours you will need to complete the project.    This may not be easy to do but you need to make sure that you are covering you expenses and wages for the time it takes to build the product.    It does not hurt to use multiple approaches beyond that to cover your behind.    People have mentioned welded joint pricing in the referenced thread above.    That may be OK for some estimating but I suspect that you will have a lot of fabrication to do that doesn't involve welding, so joint estimates for this sort of work blows in my mind.When doing what amounts to tedious fabrications of this sort you also need to take into account the equipment you have in your facilities.    You have to pay for them also and the type of equipment effects production rate.The number one thing that you need to do is to make sure that you have a flat rate calculated that you can refer to.    This should be the rate that covers all of your wages. benefits, insurance and other required expenses for the year.    Don't forget retirement.    Knowing what it costs for your operation, for you as an employee is a requirement in business.    This should be a simple spread sheet calculation and should give you a base rate to cover your wages and benefits.    Of course there is much more to add to the rate depending on equipment and such in the shop and profits, but you need to know what you need to make to buy the potatoes.You mentioned about 15 hours of time for each one at 60 dollars an hour that works out to 900 bucks.    So the first thing that comes to mind is does 60 dollars an hour cover you?    That is wages and benefits.   If so then you are only making $100 dollars profit which seems very thin to me.    Maybe some here think this is wrong but I think that you have to think about your expenses as an employee first, even if self employeed.   Then look at profits and capital expenses and factor those into pricing.    Just heating the building you are in may be significant but it shouldn't be considered part of your wages.    Part of the expense charged to the customer yes.It may seem to be a bit tedious to break things down to much, it can be but you need to know wher ehte money goes.   Further if you in the future expand to hire an employee or two you will be in a better position to figure out proper pricing of jobs.    ThanksDave
Reply:You also need to factor in the time it will take you to get the material, deliver the finished product and chew the fat with the customer. Many people forget to take this time into account and it can easily add 3 hours to a job.Scott
Reply:thanks to all who replied  Kevin