instructor expectations

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quick background as this may help with answer. i have 10 years welding experiance, mostly mig,6011 and some 7018. i took some stick courses almost 20 years ago and at the same time was being taught mig on the job. this was my education. i welded, mostly mig, for the next 10 years for a living. then i got out of the trade for 10 years and now i'm back welding again for a living. never say never that's one lesson. now that i'm welding again for a living i decided to take my skill level up one and signed up for a tig class at the local community college. it's a saturday class for 4 hours in the morning. first class empty gas bottle no biggy i changed it and about 5 minutes instructional time. second class changed instructors, not my decision, and about 5 minutes instructional time. third class empty gas bottle again and no instructional time. there is a leak somewhere which may be causing a problem. as soon as i cut the bottle off the gauge dropped hard to empty. meanwhile for the last two weeks i've been practicing at home with a scratch start that hooks up to a stick machine. a supervisor at work let me borrow this tig torch that you clamp a stinger to and tap start. i am getting better results at home with this outfit than with a syncrowave 250 at school. very soon i will be getting a syncrowave 200. this is my complaint with school i have enough experiance to look at a weld and know if it is wrong or right. i don't need a guy to tell me whether or not a bead is undercut or no penatration or to concave or whatever. what i need is someone to show me how to correct what i'm not doing right. i think this would be done by someone showing me their technique and evaluating my technique. if all this guy is going to do is say well that looks a little undercut or you fell off the side there or bead size is to big.then i might just wait for my syncro 200, that i'm getting ready to buy, and just learn on my own.one of the first problems i was having was concave beads. my own analyzation of this went like this in my mind. if that was a bead done with mig i would say not enough wire speed so i dipped my wire more and got a more flat to convex appearance. second problem was bead to big. well i did'nt figure that one out on my own but from this site and the miller site i corrected that too. seems i was trying to stick my filler in the middle of the puddle and not keeping the torch on the leading edge. i feel like i should be learning this from my instuctor. there is about 10 students he has for 4 hours i should at least get 30 minutes i would think. i am almost 40 years old i aint got time to play games and i dont want any body wasting my money. now i know that i would learn much more from a good instructor but i think this guy is just collecting a paycheck. should i stick it out with this guy or just go it at home with a syncro 200 and what information i can get of the net, books, and asking advice from other welders i know. or am i just crying to much. thanks for any comments.
Reply:if you already paid for the class stick with it and tell the instructor (in a nice way ) you would like time to weld,  they will never know if ya don t   speak up  but that is just my 2 cents good luck
Reply:It's a common thing these days, to find instructors that are worthless.  The only thing you can do is tell it to somebody higher in the food chain.  Those people often are clueless about what type of instructor they have, and have to be told.You would likely be very pleased with your investment if you just got a nice camera, welded a few beads and then posted them up.  You can tell a lot by looking at a bead, and tips online are cheap.  It's a great return on investement, compared to classes with a mediocre teacher.
Reply:You would likely be very pleased with your investment if you just got a nice camera, welded a few beads and then posted them up. You can tell a lot by looking at a bead, and tips online are cheap. It's a great return on investement, compared to classes with a mediocre teacher. (quote)very well put we can tell alot with pics..trust us ..we're good...as good as it gets online anyway... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I was curious to read your post when I read the title but I gave up after a few lines becasue I could not read it without much effort. Please, try to use some sort of punctuation and a capital letter or two. This is not grammar school but good communication is is critical. Maybe communication is the problem you're having with your instructor?Always looking for another old VW, especially in the southeast.
Reply:i read it just fine..this is internet 101 at the same time..getting on ones case from "unproper???" spelling?  here? sometimezzzz i dont ytpe rite but yet i no what izzzzzz ytipng abotulighten up  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:thanks guys. i plan on posting some pics in the next couple of weeks. i'm just not happy with class. this guy is either talking on his cell phone or out of the lab or bs'ing with another student. twice he told me to go in my booth after i showed him a coupon he'd be right there to show me something. i wait a couple of minutes go looking for him i can't find him, he's out of the lab or talking on the cell phone. that ****es me off. anyway thanks for the help. looking forward to posting some pics.
Reply:Sorry to hear that you got one of the instructors that just doesn't seem to care.Personally, I know there's people that I have helped learn to weld, that are making a living at it, supporting families.  Teaching is more than just a paycheck, it's a way to help others out in a great way.  Obviously, some people forget  about that, and don't want to help those that help themselves.If the instructor keeps showing a lack of willingness to help you, take it up further in the chain.  This is a sore spot with me.  It ****es me off to see people get these gravy teaching jobs, and do nothing to deserve them.  They aren't even good welders in many cases.  I have to think that the people that hire the teachers are really clueless and don't know what to look for in a welding instructor.  Most instructors simply suck ***.Last edited by Engloid; 09-17-2006 at 10:29 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by bugdustI was curious to read your post when I read the title but I gave up after a few lines becasue I could not read it without much effort. Please, try to use some sort of punctuation and a capital letter or two. This is not grammar school but good communication is is critical.
Reply:Originally Posted by bugdustI was curious to read your post when I read the title but I gave up after a few lines becasue I could not read it without much effort. Please, try to use some sort of punctuation and a capital letter or two. This is not grammar school but good communication is is critical. Maybe communication is the problem you're having with your instructor?
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109I could understand him but then I have a degree in English.
Reply:thanks again for replies. sorry for bad grammer. however that is kind of my point. i didn't pay attention in school. so for one of the few times in my life i decide to go to school for something this is what i get. your right bugdust i am a bad communicator. i'm going to express my concerns once maybe twice with my instructor and then if he doesn't want to help i'm done with  anymore communication you are right about that. or am i expecting too much too early from the class. i could be wrong hell i've made plenty of mistakes in my life. however i do know when somebody is bs'ing me and i just get that feeling from my instructor.
Reply:have you seen his welds?ChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:about 2 inches worth chopper5
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702You left out your commas...
Reply:Go straight to the president or top administrator of the college and state your case.     Have your facts ready and make them aware that their college has failed to deliver the product (education) you have paid for.    The last thing a college or trade school wants is a disappointed customer.Upon discovering that I would not be able to finish my mechanical engineering degree attending Akron U evenings, despite their advertising the contrary, I went straight to Luis Proenza's office and demanded the classes be added or a full refund.     I got the refund and finished up at Kent State.There are no small projects
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109That's because this forum has no edit function after about five minutes. Thanks for noticing.
Reply:actually guys nevermind about the welding. i dropped that classs and signed up for english as i hope this will improv my gramer caus i must be ignit?
Reply:Guys, I wasn't trying to be a smart ***, hard ***, or anything else. I just simply stated that I found his post harder to read than one with at least an attempt at proper punctuation. I understand this is the internet and that we're welders, not typists. Hell, I screw up the English language pretty good at times but I at least put forth  a fair amount of effort to make my posts easy to read. Can we move on now?I just took the time to fully read the original post and I think you are definately getting screwed. I teach new employees how to improve their mig welding and how to weld and setup to our company procedures. That is my job and I take it seriously. I currently have four new guys, three of which just started today. One of them has never welded for a living before but is fresh out of Tulsa welding school. Anyway, I would attempt to talk to the instructor first. Make him aware of your concerns. That way, when you do go over his head you can say that you did try to resolve the issue with him first. Plus, I believe that if any man has a problem with me, he should come to me first to see if we can work it out.There's an old Chinese proverb that says something like: "If the student fails to surpass the teacher, then both have failed." I teach my "students" by that belief. Good luck.Always looking for another old VW, especially in the southeast.
Reply:i still  say go to the boss say something,  if not for your-self, but the next person, but i would not sit still, if you payed for the class... i waS never good --or done well  in school  but i can read between the lines so type on my friend  type on  STILL say something, ya might get a refund or  more time hope there is enough coma's here
Reply:You definately need to say something to someone at the school.  As far as the administration is concerned they might think they've hired an Ace when in fact he is a dud.  There needs to be accountability in the classroom especially for tech classes where people plan to earn a living from what they learn.As far as the grammar goes that's secondary to the gist of the post.  I have seen grammatical errors in nearly everyone's posts and no-one is immune.  Those that say they don't generate posts with errors go ahead and PM me your alias.  I'll have my wife check all of your work and report back to you on your grade.  Last time I checked this was "WeldingWeb.com" not "Essayist.com". Good luck, I hope you get somewhere with the teacher.Michael
Reply:Good english and punctuation do make things more readable, but I try not to criticize people for incorrect stuff.  If somebody can really do better, yet posts up without any punctuation, I'd crack their balls...but you never know when a person is really doing the best they can, in which case I'd not want to insult anybody by calling them out.I hope BubbleGum is one that takes the internet lightly and wasn't insulted in any way by my comments or any others.  We welcome anybody here....even guys that make frequen typos like I do.
Reply:Originally Posted by EngloidI hope BubbleGum is one that takes the internet lightly and wasn't insulted in any way by my comments or any others.  We welcome anybody here.....
Reply:Hey bubblegum, I would like to apologize for the sorry *** instructor you had there. Don't be discouraged, though. This web site has some great advisors, and even though we all somewhat disagree oocassionally, the right info is there. I once told a Victor engineer that if my student didn't understand a lesson it was because I didn't know the material well enuf to explain it so the student got it. And the eng. said, Have you ever tried to teach a pig to sing? You can't and the attempt only annoys the pig!Anyhow there are bad instructors, just as there are bad students. But with this here internet thingy, the right info is out there.Good luck and keep posting.Weldtek
Reply:There is the old saying; Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach. Not always necessarily true. Not everyone can weld and not everyone has the personality to teach, so I imagine its even harder to find someone who can do both well. I would definitely say something to the school. If they don't know about the problem they won't be able to fix it and then everyone else suffers along with you.I just began a welding class at the local Vo-Tech one night a week. I had the first class this past Tuesday so it was basically an explanation of the course and a tour of the shop (no welding until everyone has their own safety equipment - safety glasses, shield, gloves...). I'll let you all know how it goes but the instructor seems pretty good so far. I have been welding as a hobby for years (self-taught) but this site has inspired me to learn how to do it the right way... thanks!Sure, I can fix it... I got a welder!!!I just started in the Welding Technologies program at our local community college where I had previously been enrolled in the Networking Technologies A.S. program (my, how interests change!). I'm 43, was a mechanic in the nuclear Navy (submarines), have worked in the chemical industry for 16 years, and have taught CPR for a number of years, so I can usually spot a good instructor versus one who is just going through the motions and either doesn't know how to do what he's teaching or just doesn't care.I consider myself fortunate that I got an instructor who was in the business for many years and has been teaching in this specific welding program for the last 17 years. He preaches the benefits of the world of welding every day, is responsive to requests (whether with welding technique, shop safety issues, or whatever), and can lay some really sweet welds on top of it (usually one-handed).I agree with the other fellas: ream someone's a** at that college and let them know that you, their customer, are not satisfied with their product. You're paying good money for the privilege of sitting around on your thumbs with no gas and/or sub-standard equipment. Make some noise!Good luck with your education and your welding.Dave
Reply:yea, be very careful what school you go to for welding,,
Reply:If your instruction was/is of any use at all he should be able to take a look at your welds and know where to take you from there, this one obviously doesn't, so do something about it.A short story of my only experience teaching welding.I took 12 14-15 year old's through a two week course on welding.  There was one kid that in the first week, no matter what I tried, I couldn't get him going, I just didn't know what was going wrong. Then Monday of the second week this kid was flying, it looked like he'd been doing this for a long time. When I asked him what happened, I just about fell over, all it took for him to weld like a pro was to wear his glasses   I really beleive that he was able to pass  two plate tests at the end of the second week. Both verticle and downhand with 7018, he was a natural.Don't muck around, tell him once your not happy, then straight to the top if you don't get a huge improvement.  You just need time under the bucket and you'll get it easy as, but you already know that yourself.I'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:You're not cryin' bubblegum, I'm sure you paid good money for that class. It sounds to me like that instructor is flat-out disrespectful. I agree with others about talking to his superior.
Reply:Hi Bubblegum! Weldcome to this forum!!!Please do'nt pay attention to any of the so-called experts in english writing because, if any of them were really as good as they profess - they would no longer visit or better yet, participate in this forum for their patience would've ran thin enough to leave a long time ago!!! 383 Bigblock could'nt have phrased it any better by reminding everyone that this forum is'nt "Essayist.com" As a Welding Instructor (AWS CWE in 2004) myself, I'm appalled that this impostor of an educator would even have the audacity to use his cell in the lab... Very unprofessional on his part!!!I believe someone asked you if you've seen any of his welds and you replied that you had only "seen 2 inches worth" correct? Well, then have him via a witness present, demonstrate to you how he has deposited those two inches and ask him how to restart a weld because, the maximum lengths of deposited weld is NOT ONLY 2 inches long If this impostor decides not to take you seriously, then you have sufficient grounds and a witness on your side to make a formal complaint to anyone of the administrators in this school Demand justice or at least a refund!!!Hey Engloid! Not all welding instructors Suck! Just the ones like you said, that should'nt be doing so in the first place C'mon "Bugdust" you of all people should know better than to critique someone while not being able to spell "definately" due to your own "vowelfunction" A wise man told me once; "Hank! Do you know when you've reached perfection?" and I replied "NO, do you?" and Dick said: "Yeah! it's after you're dead, and two minutes after they've thrown the dirt into your grave!"I asked him how did he know that, and he answered: " It happened to a person I knew one time and now when I see him, I try my best to stay as far away from that individual as I possibly can!" Hey Bubblegum! Do'nt let one individual set a bad example to you as far as welding educators go! Once again, Weldcome to the Welding Web!!! Respectfully.SSBN727 Attached ImagesLast edited by SSBN727; 11-06-2006 at 11:10 PM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:More Pics!    Attached ImagesLast edited by SSBN727; 11-06-2006 at 11:15 PM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:Personally, I didn't care about mistakes in grammar, punctuation, etc.If I may make a suggestion, though. Try and break up your thoughts with paragraphs. Readers will find it much easier to follow.