starting a business?

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Hey guys, i have been pondering the idea of trying to start my own business.  I do quite a bit of sidework now for people, some race car stuff..roll cages, cracked aluminum heads, farm equipment, some motorcycle stuff too, and just general fab.  I would like to have a portable rig, but im not sure if its worth it.  I just wanted to get some feedback from u guys out there who have there own business, or have attempted it and realized its not worth the hassle, or if anyone out there has a business and can give me some pointers! Or should i work my 40-50 hrs a week and keep doing side work?  any comments are appreciated!Pipe & Pressure Vessel Welder
Reply:Why not get a rig and do mobile on the side.  You might look around for used gear to keep the cost down.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:This is apples and oranges, but I own a laundromat on the side. I'd definitely start on your spare time and grow it while you have the regular job. You'll have a lot less stress and growing pains knowing the 'new gig' doesn't have to put food on the table. I'd just start on the side for cash under the table, nothing 'official' business wise, and see how it goes. If people are beating down your door, maybe you go for it full time. But then you have to become legitimate I imagine, with liability insurance, etc, and then you might find it isn't just fun welding stuff anymore, but a pain in the *** business to run.Or it could work out great, who knows, I'm just babbling out my arse.Take this advice to be worth exactly what you paid for it - Nothing!- John
Reply:I own my own business and its just like any other job. The only difference is you are responsible for your income & that doesnt mean just showing up for work. It means your the salesman, the buyer, the customer service, the accounts payable, accounts billable......look I hate running my business. I hate how much time it takes and I hate that if I have a slack month I have to worry about money. I am ready to quit. I am looking to learn to weld because I have always like it. I am an aircraft mechanic who recently moved to Minneapolis area. Since Northwest mechanics are on strike they went out and got all the mechannic jobs, not just the aviation mechanic jobs. So I considered it too but I would rather go to work and let someone else worry about all the details of business. I dont want to discourage you but it is a reality. Also DONT HALF-A$$ it. If you cant afford your insurance, the fuel for your truck, and the proper equipment it will be just a matter of time before you loose your shirt. No insurance + 1 mistake + 2 lawyers = NO Retirement.Grant
Reply:I tried to edit the above post to add a little less pessimisim about running your own business. You must remember when you start a business you no longer are a welder. You are now a business owner who knows how to weld. Keep this in mind. You will have lots more on your plate. Be sure to get insurance. I cannot stres thi enough. Also get a mentor, someone who will tell you when you are about to do something stupid (My dad helped me with this one) Also be ready for serious failure, be ready to shake it off and put your self back together. You'll need to be ready for this a few times before it doesn't hurt. Prepare your family for the inevitable (Can I borrow some money). If you are able then I would do it as a side job until you have a client base. You can market yourself as a specialized welder, just make sure everyone can use your specialty. My business specializes in anything that the competition doesnt want to do. It has led me to Iceland, Russia, & to clients in Lybia, Usbekistan and Venezuela. I really enjoy the work but hate the business, Does that make sense? I am glad you are asking questions. I did and it helped me succeed(AKA Keep my head above water) It took me three years to make any money. I think that I could have done much better if I would have just been working for someone else.I dont mean to discourage you but this is a reality. Owning your own business is kinda feast or famine. I am sure all the other business owners here will agree. It's not all it's cracked up to be.Good Luck!Grant
Reply:I have worked for myself for the last ten years or so. Welding Stainless is only a small part of what I do, in other words I'm not a full time weldor.It's not always easy but if you want to be in control of your own destiny then it's the only way to go. Your income is basically only limited by your drive and your ability to get work and get the work finished.I would say the best way to get started in any business is to have a full or part time job to support you and grow your business until you reach the point of self sufficiency.Unless you have adequate funding (Lot's of money) then don't attempt to just quit your regular job and make it on your own. At some point you will need to jump in with both feet but you can decide that based on the amount of work you have in the pipeline and your finances.Remember you have to spend money to make money. Tool's, gas, materials and supplies, etc. If you don't want to be responsible for everything as stated above, Sales, accounting, ordering parts, actual physical work, etc, then your better off to work for someone else. I will say for some of us it's the only way to be happy.... Let's face it I'll never fire me no matter how bad I screw up. Persoanlly I Love it. Some people don't want to be responsible for all that and can't handle the stress involved.P.S. It's always a bit of a gamble starting a new business unless you plan on opening a McDonalds. But you can better the odds with carefull planning.Washman
Reply:The hardest thing about doing any type of mobile business is making sure that at the end of the day you get paid. GET PAID, GET PAID...... GET PAID!! Once you're done the work you leave and your security (what you fixed) stays on site or where ever. It may be okay now because it is a sideline and the people you do the work for are friends or what not..... but when it's your business and Joe the dirt digger (who you don't know from a hole in the wall) calls to have you go out on site...... go.... do your job and at the end of the day GET PAID! It took me a long time to weed out the losers but I ended up with a nice base of regular customers that I know I didn't need to worry about...... but I took a lot of beatings. Good Luck._________________Chris
Reply:Good point.Also don't do anything for free. It makes it bad for everybody else. I have a few outstanding balances from deadbeat customers. I have a friend who once told a potential employer that he wouldnt work for that low of pay because, as he put it "I did not spend X number of dollars and four years in school to work for free"Grant
Reply:They're not giving away liability insurance. It's pretty expensive and if you're certifications aren't up to date you might not even be able to get it.  If your buying grocerys with your side money I'd just keep it that way unless your about to loose your job and need to jump.   I had a full time fab business for 7 years and the lesson I learned early is  " you don't own the business, it owns you". Next lesson is everybody wants you to charge like Walmart.  Next is , you can't afford to be sick and everytime you have something planned with your family or hunting season or a good fishing day comes along,  you have to roll out and work because you are your hardest boss to work for.finally, if your not a good book keeper, your screwed at tax time.DonM > ASME High Pressure Vessel
Reply:Give serious thought to continuing your sidework. My uncle has literally made a 30 year career out of basic auto repair that he's operated out of a single car garge and driveway. During the same 30 years, he's had a full time job working for the borough of Manhattan managing some public housing. He's done very well just by working hard.That being said, I own a shoe store, a hair salon with my wife, and a medical practice (I'm a doctor, but it's a second career for me.). Owning any business is difficult. Between all of it, I have 25 employees. I make a good living, and I'm happy with my choices. But my uncle doesn't have payroll, worker's comp, disablity, health insurance, taxes, or any of the other business headaches to deal with. If he wanted to, he could quit tomorrow - no lease, no payroll, no account receivable. If you decide to go it on your own, be prepared for some very lean times. You will make mistakes, lose money, screw stuff up, make friends and enemies, and in general have one of the most rewarding experiences of your life - IF YOU MAKE IT! 65% of small businesses don't make it past the first few years. My personal opinion why most small businesses fail is two things: One, the owner overstimates his own skills and ablities. Sure, you can cook/weld/sew for yourself, but can you deliver a product or service that others will want? Two, undercapitalization. I've known people who almost made it, they were often held back by lack of funds or lack of credit. Luckily, welding is a service business (no significant inventory) and the cost of the equipment isn't all that high, unless you need to lease space. Feel free to email if I can help. I'm a complete novice welder, but have owned various businesses for 20 years now.Eric [email protected]
Reply:I mean i like doing it on the side now....cause i get my paycheck every week, and then can make some extra.  But then i get ****ed cause it seems like i never have enought time to get that "side work" done.  But i think my biggest concern is what "direction" to take.  I mean if you have a mobile outfit, i have a decent amount of stuff, i would just need a gas powered welder.  I have a truck i could use, generator, O/A outfit, TIG, MIG, and Stick welders. I jsut dont know if you do any type of welding on anything, or specialize in a certain type.  Its like i just dont know how to go about it.  I somewhat idolize how my father in law started his business. He worked as a machinist at the Bethlehem Steel here in Pa.  THen they went bankrupt, he lost his job.....at the same time he built engines and custom aluminum intake manifolds for Super STock and Pro Stock cars on the side, in his garage.  SO he basically just capitalized and took off with doin intake manifolds, and that was about 13 years ago.  Now he has a huge machine shop, all Miller Syncrowave 350s, two Cincinnatti CNC machines, one HAAS CNC and everything else under the sun including an Engine Dyno room and tons of milling machines etc.  Now he has almost every can in the NHRA Pro Stock, SUper stock, and different Outlaw classes and he makes a killing.  But the thing is thats all he does, intake manifolds, and alumunim racing heads.  I just dont know which route to take, cause now all my side work is MISC.  Weld this, fab this, aluminum, SS, carbon, tubing, hitches, recievers,  chassis stiffening, suspensions, just about anything really.  its just kinda overwhelming to think about.  Hey i do appreciate all of the info from  you guys, its really given me a lot to think about!!! hey if ya have anything else, keep it comin!Pipe & Pressure Vessel Welder
Reply:Why not go to work for him? Learn from him. Take a niche market that you like and have him help you get it started. for example if he is doing all intake work then ask him if he would be interested in you setting up an exhaust line. or a custom division for his clients. His clients would send the drawings and you would fab them up and put his label on them. Kinda like your own thing but he owns the headache.Grant
Reply:That's a good idea.John -  fabricator extraordinaire, car nut!-  bleeding Miller blue! http://www.weldfabzone.com
Reply:I am guessing you are single still with no kids.Some day you will have a wife and several young ones all pulling at you to fill those spare time hours.  An owner of a small one-man shop needs a lot of brass at belt-level to stall a customer while attending a kids little league game or picking up a daughter from dance class.  Working for another makes it easier to skip out, although sometimes turning down time and a half is also hard.
Reply:Yea i dont have any kids or anything, just my fiance.  I mean thats kinda why im trying to decide now if i wanna give it a shot or wait till later, cause i will be getting married within 3 years and everything that goes with it, haha!  But i talked to her and when we have kids she wants to be a stay at home mom if possible, so i said , you better not complain if i have to work 12 hrs a day and be doing sidework so i can make up some of her salary too.  ANd she said she totally understands........but we all know how that goes!!!!!! We will see when the time comes.  As for my father in laws shop, he is a one man operation, and he has one guy who works PT for him just running the CNCs.  But as for the fab and welding, he does it all and doesnt wanna expand.  He asked me to do the aluminum tig welding for him, but im about an hour and 20 mins away from his shop.  I think i may invest in another truck.......maybe buy a gas powered welder, and keep doing sidework for now and on weekends.  My current job works out nice cause im on 1st shift, and if i only wanna work 40 hrs a week i work 6am-2:30pm.  SO i have plenty of time later in the day to work on stuff.  LIke i said, i have a lot of stuff in my shop  now(2 car garage) like my stick, tig, mig, O/A welding tables and all the other stuff that goes with it, but i just dont have a road rig, i do everything at home, but maybe that would be a decent investment.  what do you guys think!?Pipe & Pressure Vessel Welder
Reply:Originally Posted by welder81you better not complain if i have to work 12 hrs a day and be doing sidework so i can make up some of her salary too.  ANd she said she totally understands........but we all know how that goes!!!!!! We will see when the time comes.
Reply:Lorenzo makes the best point. Get the material cost up front. Tell them you are a JIT shop (Thats a Mfg. Buzzword for Just In Time) It means you dont stock anything. That way they wont beg you to "Just go ahead and get started". If they dont want to pay you for the material then they dont want to pay you for your labor either. Get signed work orders. Without these you got nothing in court.Grant
Reply:All great advice here, especially from Lorenzo about getting paid!! I've got a customer that owns his own welding shop in a small farming community. I went to visit him a few months ago, and he told me he was drastically changing his business, I asked him what he meant, and he said he finally realized he couldn't be everything to everybody, and that yeah even though he grossed almost half a million dolars over the  last 12 months, he had nothing to show for it, as he had to pay 3 full time employees, workmen's comp insurance, liability insurance, etc; His biggest problem was doing work for people then not getting paid, he wasn't equipped to handle sending out three statements, numerous phone calls just to get his money. He told me that he was going to take care of the people that took care of him, he said he ****ed a few people off but in the end he is much better off. He currently has about 10-12 nice sized accounts, such as feedlot's and farm operations that he bends over backwards for, the other people he's told "cash up front" and I'll get to it when I can. He's down to just himself, and a part time farmer that comes in to help. __________________Sellin' Welding Supplies For A Livin' Brian
Reply:Originally Posted by rookieweld Get signed work orders. Without these you got nothing in court.
Reply:Is your fiance willing to be a bookkeeper/office manager?  If so, that would help.
Reply:I worked at Boeing in Corinth, Texas as a Fabtec and started a side business making and selling small benders at swap meets, flea markets, and craft markets.  While demonstrating the bender I made hooks, scrolls, and parts for pot racks, and took orders for custom stuff.  A year later I quit Boeing and went full time with my one man business.  That made it a lot less complicated not having other employees.  I could not have done it without my wife's help.  She had a good job with HEALTH INSURANCE.  It really wasn't a welding shop but there was a lot of welding.  I loved being in business for those ten years.  There are markets out there and money to be made.
Reply:I'm about the same as riley. My wife has a great job and that takes care of ins. and helps when times are slow for me like now. I own and operate a machine shop with CNC lathes and mills, plus all themanual support stuff. I also do welding , fabrication, and just about anything you need done. My biggest problem in the 12 years I've been in business has always been the same. I'm not a salesman. I do good work and usually cheaper than anyone else as my shop is all paid for because I paid for ewverything before I opened the doors to it. So the one thing I can add to all that's been said already is make sure you can sell your work. If your not a good sales person I'd keep working for the man and do this as a side line. Another problem I still have that's been talked about already is cash or capital. I am doing some work for a company that doesn't pay but every 60 days for invoices and my suppliers all want to be paid in 30 or less. I had to take a second out on the house to get everyone caught up 2 months ago. I sure hope that never happens to you. Good luck because I love it all except owning the thing and all the stuff that goes along with it,,,,,,LOL,,,,,I hope all goes well for you,,,,,Chuck in South Carolina.
Reply:Lots of good advice in the above posts welder81.Before you become self employed full time have a reason to do so.You need one.It doesn't matter if others think it a bad one as long as you see it.A mentor is great but you would be lucky if you had one .Make sure that you enjoy your work and enjoy working.Don't be surprised if your doing something totally different in 5 years time but be happy if you are.Try to find a niche market.Try to learn to say no,(harder than it sounds)You'll make mistakes (big ones) don't worry just learn.Listen to the advise of those you respect but at the end of the day "Back yourself" even if others think your crazy.A good woman behind you is a huge plus.Don't die wondering.Good LuckBrett
Reply:Hey i just wanna say thanx to everyone who posted on my thread, it really gave me a reality check .  I mean my fiance is a teacher, shes only going on her 2nd year, we are fairly young yet, shes 23 and im 25.  I think ill keep my normal job cause the benefits are excellent, hours are great, and the pay is good with lots of room for advancement.  I cant complain to much, i started my new job about 3 months ago and i already have over 3 weeks paid vacation, pention, 6% match 401K, and good health ins.   and pleny of OT! Its prolly the smart thing to do, and just do my sidework, and see where it will take me!  thanks again for all the help everybody! i appreciate itPipe & Pressure Vessel Welder
Reply:welder, i'm with you man. i weld on the side too. i work 12's 5a-5p no lunch. i had to leave my superintendant job and go back to welding full time for a heavy construction company. i am going back to school for my bachelors of industrial maintenance and this company was willing to let me still work my hours and not take a lunch so i can nock off and go to school. all week people drop off widgets and what nots to be fixed and i will do road work when needed. i drive my flat bed with all the fixins on the back. and i do have to stop on the way home every once and awhile and fix things. i got an uncle who is trying to see if i can put a bead everywhere on his peterbuilt.i've got two little cousins who spend every weekend with me. i am teaching them a trade in return for their labor. there is a learning curve though. i started letting them cut some steel, then would have them watch me weld. constantly explaining what i am doing and making them take notes on everything we do. like was mentioned before, i keep a log, of everything i do. weather it's on the job, on the side or in school, take notes. well i make the boys takes notes of everything we do. what process we welded with, vert up, fillet etc and what settings we used. and i tell them to rate the appearence of the welds. one cousin bought his own lincoln 135 and i gave the other one our grandfathers old buzz box. they share and practice all weekend. my current boss lets me bring home any 7018's that i feel are soggy (LOL) and i bring home some er70s for the other. keeps my cost down.but after cutting and practicing all summer, i feel confident in their welds that i now let them weld the firepits up that we make. they sell good in the winter here. they usually make 2 a day. these are not critical welds so i let them have at it. they fudge up everyonce and a while, but hey, vert ups aren't the easiest welds for 13 year olds. also once a month i get tractor load of hardwood dropped off and i cut it all up and they split it up for 2 days. they welded up all the wood racks and they really get kick out of running hydraulics. now to the point welder. find some neighbor kids and teach them a trade, their great a cutting and moving steel, and it keeps 'em off the video games. build a client base. i have plenty of people i do work for, plus i demand money up front. but there isn't enough work for me to survive on. everyone in my town seems to be a pipefitter or ironworker. but i still make enough to keep upgrading my equipement and pay for my f-450. hell, maybe i was just ramblin, but that's how i do it."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it