Test for new-hires

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Do we have any managers or foreman out there that have a standardized test they give applicants? I have a stack of CWI questions but they seem to hard. I don't want to scare these guys/gals off. Any help out there will be greatly appreciated.
Reply:If any one has a copy of that is there any chance you can post it or email it to me to. ThanksDo you fly the American flag?Then Drive a American car!
Reply:Best test is to have them weld! Sorts out rather anyone quickly, then give them an apptitude type test for specifics of your workplace. One question my sister uses in HR is the "pencil test". Ask the person to list as many uses for a pencil in 2 minutes other than writing with it. Shows how much they can improvise and think outside the box. IE: level , balance scale, chopsticks,straight edge, plumb level, drumstick, lever, dipstick, skewer and on and on. It comes up with some odd and interesting answers. Some people just freeze up (it's a trick question they think) and others cant write them down fast enough they have so many. Try it on a few people and see. There are no right or wrong answers.Latest Toys Miller 180 Mig and Elite Mask!!Wright Welder 225ACShop OutFitters 20/20 Bending SystemHypertherm 380 Plasma30 Years of Sparking (Electrical & Welding)
Reply:I've walked out on tests like that pencil nonsense. If they want welders then show them to the test station. Nothing fires me up faster at an interview than BS questions. I'll do their job, I won't play their games !!Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:This is interesting.  I have hired many mechanics.  No welders, but its the same. They sit there and tell you how good they are.  I had a few standard questions I asked.  If the guy said he could do it all, I would give him the toughest job in the shop on the first day.  They would do it or leave.One question I would ask is which wall in the office is NORTH.  Some would just tell you others would be totally lost.I say give em a stinger and SEE what they can do.  I also understand attitude can be more important than skill.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Besides asking about the background of the applicant, a weld test is necessary.  That is the best way to see if the applicant can actually do the job.  For every welding job that I have applied for, there has been a different weld test.  The latest one had to pass x-ray...that is a great way to weed out the good and bad applicants.
Reply:I used to give weld tests at my job and i would start easy and work up from there. Lots of times you can see how they are for welders by just watching them do a simple fillet weld.  I once had a guy I gave a test to who could not get the helmet to flip down.  Needless to say once he did the welds were pretty bad. As for the written test i would just make sure they have the basic knowledge to handle the math part.
Reply:Here at work we just give a weld test on 1/4" plate about 4" long.  Lap, fillet, and vertical.  They should also give a test on reading a tape.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:David R, did North have anything to do with the job ?? If so I can understand it. And attitude does have a part in the job, but that goes both ways and non-relating questions tell me a potential employer has an attitude of his own.In General, if you're looking for a welder then that should be what you concern yourself with. You shouldn't hire on the spot anyway. You don't know until meeting a person whether you want them around everyday and representing your company. If a brief interview and the appropriate job tests for the job opening go well then you need to check into the individual before hiring them. THEN if you're satisfied you call them back in and have a pow wow...what you will expect of them and what they should expect of you. If both parties are in agreement then you have yourself a new employee upon passing drug and/or alcohol screening.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by littlefuzzThey should also give a test on reading a tape.
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadDavid R, did North have anything to do with the job ??
Reply:My main objective for starting this thread is to actually see if they have aptitude in more than running a simple fillet weld. If I set a welder up right a monkee could lay a decent fillet. I want to know if this welding canidate understands the diiference between a 5356 filler rod and a ER70S-2. I put a 8 question together quick yesterday and it was one of the questions the applicant missed. YICKS! I am not looking for someone who just has the ability to stick some metal together, rather that he/she knows exactly what is going on in a job shop and has a pretty good idea of shop practice. Whether this be grabbing the correct wire off the shelf or if he/she understands what a butt weld is. Before I waste my time bringing them into my shop I want to get a good idea they can handle the basics. This all might sound a little overboard, but I  do run an ASME pressure vessel shop and conformance is the name of the game. A small mistake could cost thousands.
Reply:Originally Posted by PrecisionSystemsI want to know if this welding canidate understands the diiference between a 5356 filler rod and a ER70S-2. I put a 8 question together quick yesterday and it was one of the questions the applicant missed. YICKS! I am not looking for someone who just has the ability to stick some metal together, rather that he/she knows exactly what is going on in a job shop and has a pretty good idea of shop practice. Whether this be grabbing the correct wire off the shelf or if he/she understands what a butt weld is. Before I waste my time bringing them into my shop I want to get a good idea they can handle the basics. This all might sound a little overboard, but I  do run an ASME pressure vessel shop and conformance is the name of the game. A small mistake could cost thousands.
Reply:If they were coming in just for welding..Hand them some metal..Whatever you got..Turn everything down to zero on the machine... Give them the torch and say..."You show me"... That would be sufficant...Thats exactly what happened to me... And I see nothing wrong with that.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:YEP, and the correct reply would be "what do you want to see first".Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadYEP, and the correct reply would be "what do you want to see first".
Reply:i am really only proficient in smaw thats y i am going back to school in 7 days i never really had to take on any jobs that required any other process.  i am now ready to expand.  i want to learm the correct way to mig and tig.... i am a certified deisel tech for Ford. the hardest question that you can think of is not going to tell you weather he or she knows what they are doing. what Zap said is what i would want. have a machine turned all the way down and let them show you thay have what it takes. this is before the interview ever starts.  Hi my name is Jason. (u say Hi my name is _______ the welding machine is over here.) u say i need u to weld this up for me before we begin 6" pipe  6G tell them i need to inspect the root intermed. and cap then we can talk.63' Lincoln SA200 2008 miller trailblazer 302fibre-metal pipelinermiller camo BWEand all the guns and ammo a growin boy needs
Reply:At the job I have now, I went through three full interviews before I got to take my weld test.  The weld test was a 3/4" vert up plate with a backing bar.  It had to pass x-ray, tensiles and charpys. When I applied at the fab shop, I had to do aluminum Tig and Mig fillet welds and steel tig and Flux-core fillet welds.  Nothing had to conform to x-ray
Reply:Put some pieces of metal in front of them and have them weld it together.  Best test I know of.  Then any written test should be based specifically on what your are working with on your jobsite such as questions about preheating certain types of steel, use of certain equipment on the jobsite etc...The place I work at now just had the structural welders weld two pieces of 1/4" steel together in flat, vert, overhead and that was it.  I think they should have also tested skills with the cutting torch, air-arc, plasma cutter and such too, but I guess that stuff is easy to learn and if you can weld good you can probably use those tools at least somewhat.
Reply:Good stuff here guys...  Some help I hired in the past was a bit disappointing because I was sure he could at least grind... well later he got the hang of it and now I can trust him to lay some beads down if I set up the welders.    But yeah good stuff here....I always wondered how the pros might hire folksBig diff between helpers and welders! weld it like you own it
Reply:If your going to be hired as a specialty weld"or".."er".."duh"...whatever..You have to have your $h!t together..No time to babysit... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterNo time to babysit...
Reply:AWW crap I used the new-school   "welders" instead of "weldors"Man thats generation X for ya  And I've tried to stop that too...Gosh darn dumming doun !!! weld it like you own it
Reply:Well I think it depends more on what you are hiring for.  in my field of work if a guy comes to me I'll take him in the shop to a job, and ask him how would you go about repairing this?  if his answer is reasonable, I give him a welder, and tell him to show me what he can do.  He sets it up, he gets the material and he runs the bead.  This will show me his shop practices, as well as welding abilities.  then i give him a joint of my choice.  However I am in the repair business not the same field as you.  If you are looking for a weldor to perform code welding and pass X-ray then I can only think of one thing, and that's experience.  They could not come in my shop door without previous pressure vessel history.  As far as what is related to his duties, is fair to ask, but  answering a test isn't gonna tell ya he has the skill to run an X-ray quality weld.  One other thing to think about.  I have had guys come in my shop (I hired) that were dang good at one process, but couldn't tell you crap about another one.  They were trained in that one and that's all they have ever done.  So they honestly just did not know about other materials or welding procedures.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:So, whatever happened ? You get any more applicants ? You fill the position ? Just wondering how this worked out.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHTgive em some steel and a welder and selection of tools , rods etc  , and see if they know what they are doing , if not dont hire them easy as ,
Reply:No hires yet. I am having a hard time finding qualified individuals. I guess it could have to do with my comoapny's mandated pay scale. It is average for this area, not great in the least. Amen to the babysitting comment. That is exactly what I want to avoid. I will keep looking but it's not looking great. Delivery is going to be tight!!
Reply:Thanks for responding. I kinda figured it was either pay or past practices that was keeping the qualified guys you seek away. Makes it tough to get the experienced help you need when management won't step up. What used to burn me up was the sales people promising delivery in crazy short turnaround times. The guys on the floor have lives too.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:it seems to me that most "weldors" are really fitters, who can do some welding . where i worked , they hired fitters for fitting , production weldors for welding. I was a production weldor. it took about 500 applicants to get 30 real weldors who could pass the hy-80 plate test. with 110-18 electrode . (welding ROD).verticle, overhead, & horizontal (3/4" plate with 1/8"rod for roots, the rest with 5/32" rod.Where? Mare Island shipyard, & Kaiser Steel, Napa, california[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:We have a small weld test set up with some round tubing, square tubing and flat bar already tacked on a plate. We only run spray-mig. We leave the machines set because  most people around this area haven't welded metal-core wire in spray-transfer. We do a visual inspection and about a 30-minute "interview" in the shop. You don't get into the shop until you've filled out an application and taken a 4 page basic math test (about 40 problems) that are mostly basic math with some metric conversions and tape reading.An applicant doesn't necessarily have to "pass" the welding test but show that he has the ability to learn. We have a 4-week training program that all new welders go through with a full time trainer (as needed) as well as classes on weld quality, print reading, weld gauges, safety, etc. That used to be my job and I could usually tell by the end of the first day if the guy was going to make it. Our in-house training program is being replace by the local community college developing a course geared just to our company's needs. This will be followed by an abbreviated OTJ training course. New welders only weld for the first two weeks, then move into set-up/fitting. Then they are expected to fit and weld within a standard time with minimum defects.All of our new hires (all departments) are hired through a temp service for 90 days. Then we hire the ones that survived full time. We have the same problem...attracting experienced people for what we pay. Our starting pay is the same whether you're fresh out of welding school or a 30 year experienced welder.Always looking for another old VW, especially in the southeast.
Reply:Originally Posted by WolfmanJack13Best test is to have them weld! Sorts out rather anyone quickly, then give them an apptitude type test for specifics of your workplace. One question my sister uses in HR is the "pencil test". Ask the person to list as many uses for a pencil in 2 minutes other than writing with it. Shows how much they can improvise and think outside the box. IE: level , balance scale, chopsticks,straight edge, plumb level, drumstick, lever, dipstick, skewer and on and on. It comes up with some odd and interesting answers. Some people just freeze up (it's a trick question they think) and others cant write them down fast enough they have so many. Try it on a few people and see. There are no right or wrong answers.
Reply:I think welding THEORY (knowledge) and practical are both very important.Sure, give 'em some test metal... see if they can successfully weld some thin sheet to some thick plate, etc etc...But knowing the reasons WHY the arc works in the way it does has helped me in my first job.  And not just that, there's the safety aspect that MANY people don't know - for instance the weight of certain gases and what NOT to use when you're welding down in an enclosed space.My college course was 30% theory/textbook and 70% shop, and I am *SO* grateful for going to the classroom stuff to learn what we learnt there, because it's really helped me out in my decision making.But, of course, if you're a foreman and you have a specific product you put out, get them to weld a pass similar to what your workers do on a regular shift and if he/she can do it (even if it looks scratchy - because most people can make it look great give them 1 shift of experience) then chances are they're worth keeping for 30 days.One thing whoever that CAN'T be b.s'ed is ingenuity (ie: thinking mechanically on the fly).  those are the people I like working with (I like to consider myself in this grouping).  You can teach any other skills neccessary for the job, but people who can think on the fly to come up with ideas to get around sticky situations are the best to have on your workforce."A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."
Reply:Originally Posted by z0diacHehehe, with all the examples you gave, I take it you've been put through the pencil test before?
Reply:This thread makes me really nervous to apply for welding jobs.  I just went thru a diploma program for the past 15 months, the good ole boy way here in South Ga.  I'm a good welder, I'm familiar in all positions with Stick, MIG and TIG.  I can use a torch for bending and cutting, wasn't taught to weld or braze with it.  Wasn't taught arc goughing either.  I'm shaky with the math and tape measure because until this past year I couldn't do fractions.  Now, with the help of tapes with fractions and patience I can do it just fine.  I served 9 years in the Air Force & have impecable discipline, work eithic, I'm dependable, trust worthy, honest and will work my tail off for you.  Don't do drugs and will be on time.  I can past the joint tests and on a good day an open back butt joint but would love if you asked me to do one with a back plate.  We only had to perform bend tests on our butt joints.  Never even saw an Xray.  I also am completely proficient on ALL hand tools, fork lifts, sheers, drills, saws, power tools.  I would hate for you to turn me away cause I don't know where the North wall is (which I wouldn't) or some pencil questions.  All I would need is a week or two of OJT and I'd be a great employee.  I hope to apply for some type of fabricating job with a boss who considers these things.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:Originally Posted by pinklilly11...This thread makes me really nervous to apply for welding jobs...
Reply:I really don't care if they know where the north wall is but if I point it out for them they should be able to figure out where the south wall is. My biggest gripe has little to do with skills. If they find a tool in the shop then they ought to be able to know where to put it back.
Reply:I checked your company site, and you're located right around the corner from my work. Behind JGB and the generator place? Maybe you could contact Tom Bryant about some good testing procedures. He's the Education Director for the Syracuse chapter of the AWS. That would help in finding out their welding skill, but then you need a way to test the applicant's attitude.
Reply:Originally Posted by JeffBbut then you need a way to test the applicant's attitude.
Reply:Originally Posted by bugdustAll of our new hires (all departments) are hired through a temp service for 90 days. Then we hire the ones that survived full time. We have the same problem...attracting experienced people for what we pay. Our starting pay is the same whether you're fresh out of welding school or a 30 year experienced welder.
Reply:This is in response to bugdust, this way of doing bus is crap IMHO, that's why I bought a welder and will figure out my own business.  What a statement of pure disrespect to hire a brand new guy and and a 30 year, even a 15+ year welder and pay them the same.  That's America for you.  The vessel place here is going and taking the "migrant workers" right off the street and paying them the same thing I just went to school for, nealry 2 years of school.  Sorry, you can keep your $7 or $8 an hour and I'll find something else.  I think that attitude is ridiculous, greedy and just plain wrong.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband
Reply:I'm sorry, maybe I didn't clarify what I meant by "attitude". I meant somebody that will take the job seriously enough to show up more than 3 days a week. I got a raise and promotion with only 6 months on my job because they had to fire a guy that was late often, and no-call/no-show at least once a week. Employers don't seem to like hearing "hangover" as an excuse for missing work.
Reply:Originally Posted by JeffBI'm sorry, maybe I didn't clarify what I meant by "attitude". I meant somebody that will take the job seriously enough to show up more than 3 days a week. I got a raise and promotion with only 6 months on my job because they had to fire a guy that was late often, and no-call/no-show at least once a week. Employers don't seem to like hearing "hangover" as an excuse for missing work.
Reply:I guess I had it easy around here... the man who taught me to weld and how to do field repairs was my boss during the daytime and my vocational course instructor at the community college at night.  After a while, he was like family to me...  Anyways, I got taught in the classroom and the field, so when I went to apply for a job locally I had enough experience that as a 20 year old kid they would give me a shot.  Mostly welding tests everywhere I went, and some math tests...  And down here in FL there's almost always a 90 day probation period when youre hired.  So the deal I made at one shop that was on the fence about hiring me (and man did I ever want to work there!) was to let me start at a reduced rate for the 90 days to prove myself, and at the end of 90 days we could go our own separate ways or they would kick me up to what the usual starting rate was.  That gave me the opportunity to step up with the big boys.I think attitude matters a lot, BUT not in the sense of "can we all be friends".Shop politics can be a cancer eating away at your stable base of employees, you get one or two real unbearable SOB's in there and they start with the practical jokes and starting problems with management and between others, stealing things, you will find your good guys wanting to go somewhere else...  Thats my humble opinion as a 25 yr old guy, I cant say I know a lot, and I cant say I have a ton of experience, but thats what I have seen around here
Reply:Originally Posted by FordBuilderFLI think attitude matters a lot, BUT not in the sense of "can we all be friends".Shop politics can be a cancer eating away at your stable base of employees, you get one or two real unbearable SOB's in there and they start with the practical jokes and starting problems with management and between others, stealing things, you will find your good guys wanting to go somewhere else...  Thats my humble opinion as a 25 yr old guy, I cant say I know a lot, and I cant say I have a ton of experience, but thats what I have seen around here
Reply:This is a GOOD THREAD ...IMOBTW I do think attitude does matter just some people don't bring enuff good attitude to make up for lack of whatever it is that makes a good shop employee and even tho they may be great people you constantly have to pull up the slack for them. Some of my best friends at past jobs would never in a million years get hired at my biz...I love 'em like family and bring them around my folks and all that but I could never afford to pay for their screwups!! (BTDT)Anybody know the type I'm talkin' about??The guy that lives next to my shop is just a wonderful person and I would (and do) anything for him but he could break a cannonball in a sandpile. He is a certified diesel mech. but about anytime he needs to borrow anything from me I am part of the deal. We're talkin' bout anything that has moving parts.BUT....if you need something done with nothing but pure brute force he's yer man. Anyhow he constanly mentions me hiring him and I politely try to laugh it off or change the subject. He has a great attitude tho!You do need people who will show up and work everyday tho and put out some numbers as well...I realize that.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Attitudes in the shop...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..I keep to myself...I really have nothing to say...Remember what Mom used to say.."If you have nothing good to say then keep it to yourself"Thats why I dont say much..If you get to yappin' then bad things happen...Forget the lathe is running and the compound eventually meets a spinning lathe chuck..4-jaw... Forget the milling machine is ready to bore a hole thru itself... Forget the Blanchard grinder has just made this 3000$ piece .070 undersize... Forget to do basic things like turn on the water to the tig torch... (Thats mine from way back when)  So after these journeys in life while you take it all in...Pay attention to whats going on and keep social time to break time... And if you don't take breaks..All the better......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:I agree, I have enjoyed this thread.....  Pinklilly,  Where did you go to school for your training?  I am really suprised that they no longer teach o/a welding, brazing, and especially gouging?????????? as far as the experience thing goes, what I have started seeing is there is truly a shortage of SKILLED weldors.  All of the older guys are retiring, and the younger ones are either no long being trained for the full spectrum of process, AND the knowledge to go with it, or they lack the self discipline to teach themselves as they go.  This is not directed towards anyone, but is a generalization.  I am speaking from what i see around here.  In fact when I was looking for help the problem i had was finding someone who can do anything that comes in the shop.  I found plenty of guys that were great with one process, but if you hand them something different they could not set the machine.    I can name you four large shops with in a 50 mile radius of me that have no weldor in the shop with over 10 years experience, and 90% of that experience is with nothing but a mig gun on that job.  They don't even have a "go to" man in the shop for the complicated things.  The reason I know this is because they sub it out to me, and call it specialty work when the truth is there should be no problem keeping someone on hand who is qualified to perform the work because it is nothing special about it.  I think alot of it comes down to money.  It's cheaper to sub out those few jobs than it is to pay an experienced guy full time when they can use the monkey's for minimum wage.  Just a few of my thoughts.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterAttitudes in the shop...Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..I keep to myself...I really have nothing to say...Remember what Mom used to say.."If you have nothing good to say then keep it to yourself"Thats why I dont say much..If you get to yappin' then bad things happen...Forget the lathe is running and the compound eventually meets a spinning lathe chuck..4-jaw... Forget the milling machine is ready to bore a hole thru itself... Forget the Blanchard grinder has just made this 3000$ piece .070 undersize... Forget to do basic things like turn on the water to the tig torch... (Thats mine from way back when)  So after these journeys in life while you take it all in...Pay attention to whats going on and keep social time to break time... And if you don't take breaks..All the better......zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by tresiThose are the things that happen if have good luck. If too much yapping meets bad luck you go to the hospital.
Reply:Here in S. Ga Valdosta Technical College, diploma in Welding & Joining.  On average takes a student 15 mos to complete.  Mind you they take 2-3 weeks in between each quarter/semester.  At first they didn't want me to join, cause I'm a girl & an AF wife which makes no sense.  I'm able to go to school on the GI Bill since I'm prior military.  Ga also paid for my tuition since I'm married to a military mbr.  I decided on Welding, I enjoy art.  I like to make mosaic table tops & thought, why not be able to make the bottoms as well.  My dear instructor is straight from the stix.  Things down here are very different from where I grew up in Pa & after traveling w/military for 9 yrs I'm amazed that this region is still stuck in the 60's.  At first I was reading my $75Welding book faithfully & doing all the book work.  I'd ask questions & he could show me but couldn't really explain answer.  I'd have to look it up on the internet.  After passing all the safety requirements I started out learning the cutting torch or outfit I don't think I even know the correct names of things.  I think he demostrated o/a welding & brazing 1 or 2 times.  Reasons for not teaching it are, "not really used anymore" or the program doesn't support this.  I've watched arc goughing at the shop & at the local rail station performed.  I decided it's too loud for me & didn't want to learn it.  Next was SMAW.  I learned flat, horz, vert, overhead with 6011 & 7018 learned the joints tee, lap, butt.  It took me longer then the guys to fully be able to complete all of the positions.  I did stick for about 6-9 mos.  Next was MIG and only took me a few weeks.  TIG was last, only on mild steel cause SS was too expensive & although I should of tried aluminum I didn't.  I was supposed to do FCAW but machine was broken 4EVER.  I've watched it though & think I could figure it out with practice.  Luckily I became a favorite & he had me do lots of fabricating jobs my entire time there.  I went thru blueprint but never really grasped it, but it wasn't really explained either.  I have a hard time figuring out the fractions quickly so they would get frustrated & do it for me, which I let them.  This program is student driven & designed to get you "job ready".  If you don't want to learn he won't teach you.  Unfortunately if you don't know what to ask, you also miss out.  It's very "redneck" please no offense to anyone but I don't know how else to explain it.  Good ole boy system also a key factor.  No one wore any safety gear in the shop, except hoods.  I never figured that one out I always wear all my gear.  After coming from the military where every precaution is a MUST I nearly fainted from the unsafe practices.  So, I think I learned some poor habits & short cuts.  I had to take the NOCTI exam, I did ok.  I scored 51% on written & did well on performance tests.  Teacher said I was right there w/em, whatever that meant.  Also said some of his best students scored lower then 50% most of the time.  I'm comfortable doing stick.  I hate overhead, I can't ever see my pool.  I can do all the other positions.  I suck at butt joints but can do one w/a back plate no problem.  The key hole hates me.  MIG is not a problem & TIG I just need more practice.  If I can pass the performance & math tests a job would give me I'm confident I can learn what I missed in school.  Problem is, I don't think I'd be able to pass the tests after reading these posts.Sorry this is SOOO long.Laura MM 180Chop SawDewalt grinderhelpful husband