R.O.P.S welding ?

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ok here we go , I hered a rumor in the last week that john deere and cat have a class they offer for certification repair of there rops systems, has any one out there hered of this ?
Reply:What's ROPS???...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Roll Over Protection System.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Roll Over Protection SystemRoll bar and associated fixin's on heavy equipment. Generally deeply engineered, compared to the cage in a race vehicle, due to the much greater weight involved, and the comparatively wide range of potential rollover situations. For example, most tractor ROPS will provide reasonable protection even if the machine powers-over (tie the rear drive wheels solid and full power the thing to flip it--- NOT recommended) Also includes things like restraint attachment, and the design usually also goes for minimal number of attachment points.Not legal under OSHA to build your own or modify without the manufacturer authorization. In fact, it is considered preferable to not have ROPS than to have one that is bodged on, as a failing ROPS may increase risk of injury  or death. (See the FACE database for numerous examples: http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/f...%20States.html )
Reply:Originally Posted by enlpckRoll Over Protection SystemRoll bar and associated fixin's on heavy equipment. Generally deeply engineered, compared to the cage in a race vehicle, due to the much greater weight involved, and the comparatively wide range of potential rollover situations. For example, most tractor ROPS will provide reasonable protection even if the machine powers-over (tie the rear drive wheels solid and full power the thing to flip it--- NOT recommended) Also includes things like restraint attachment, and the design usually also goes for minimal number of attachment points.Not legal under OSHA to build your own or modify without the manufacturer authorization. In fact, it is considered preferable to not have ROPS than to have one that is bodged on, as a failing ROPS may increase risk of injury  or death. (See the FACE database for numerous examples: http://www.public-health.uiowa.edu/f...%20States.html )
Reply:Thanks guys! Learn something new every day.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:this is out of MSHA Regulations:http://www.msha.gov/30cfr/77.403-1.htm(f) Field welding on ROPS shall be performed by welders who are certified by the coal mine operator or equipment distributor as being qualified in accordance with the American Welding Society Structural Welding Code AWS D1.1-73, or Military Standard MIL-STD 248, or the equivalent thereof.Also don't forget the cab that is protected by ROPS is called FOPS (falling object protection) and is treated the same.AWS D14.3/D14.3M:2005 SPECIFIC...This specification provides standards for producing structural welds used in the manufacture of earthmoving, construction, and agricultural equipment. Such equipment is defined as self-propelled, on- ...Last edited by Dipper Welder64; 08-11-2007 at 10:01 PM.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:Being aroudn farm equipment all of my life I fully understand the need and reasoning for ROPS systems, but what baffles me is the canopy they make to go on them that only attaches to the ROPS itself at the rear of the tractor and is unsupported at the front.  It seems to me that in teh event of a rollover the ROPS will hold up fine and you will be safe.. except for the fact that the canopy is going to fold at the ROPS and sandwich you in your seat where you are "safely" belted in.Anybody got any ideas on it?EX:New-Holland 4630Seems to me if it rolled sideways it will crumple and whack you right in the chest and send you backwards, since the seats are very securely fastened to the tractor you are going to be sandwiched.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dipper Welder64AWS D14.3/D14.3M:2005 SPECIFIC...This specification provides standards for producing structural welds used in the manufacture of earthmoving, construction, and agricultural equipment. Such equipment is defined as self-propelled, on- ...
Reply:Originally Posted by Birdhunter1EX:New-Holland 4630Seems to me if it rolled sideways it will crumple and whack you right in the chest and send you backwards, since the seats are very securely fastened to the tractor you are going to be sandwiched.
Reply:call one of the dealers and ask. as far as the rops, they are heavily engineered and tested. my brother was working for me in a crushing outfit, running a CAT972 front end loader stockpiling the crushed asphalt. we were in the hills in johnson city TN. and stockpiling on the side of the hill. on a trip up to dump some product a boulder slid off the hill onto the road he had built. doing production work of course he was wide open and never seen the rock. when he hit it it flipped the loader off the road and he rolled 2.5 times landing on the cab. he was hanging from the seat-belt like a wet dog when i got to him. he had enough sense about him to turn the loader off on the way over. after getting him out the cab i used the trackhoe to flip the loader back up. my brother was fine, besides being a little shaken up. i changed the oil in the loader and fired it up. the only thing wrong with the tractor was the fiberglass FOPS was cracked a little. went to the cat place and bought a new one. also bent a mirror which we pulled back out.i never thought a 55,000 lb tractor could land on its cab and not crush anything. but my hats off to the engineers at CAT, that puppy held up and saved my brothers life."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Backuproller, My hair stood up reading that one. Lucky man, your brother.Birdhunter1,Reason for ROPS post placement, ideas? Well maybe:During a side rollover operator or limbs can be pushed away with less crushing danger? Trade off for easy boarding of machine? The visibility factor?
Reply:How about a funny car style cage with arm and leg restraints..Just like in a dragster.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:On the ford tractor it looks like the "roll bar" is above and behind your head.  The top is just a sunshade.  You are safe between the roll bar and the nose of the tractor.  I modified a lot of overhead guards when I worked for forklift dealers.  We had a Lincoln idealarc 250 AC/DC.  Worked pretty good.  I always switched the polarity to AC or DC- before I walked away from it.    DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The canopy on that tractor in the pisture is not an overhead guard it is a canopy for shade only, not a falling objets barrier.  It just seems to me that the canopy woudl bucke and smah you in a rollover since the ROPS itself is not going to move.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI always switched the polarity to AC or DC- before I walked away from it.    David
Reply:Would a ROPS have helped, especially at 00:47? :At 1:16 that has to be the world's fastest forklift! Last edited by denrep; 08-12-2007 at 08:59 PM.
Reply:denrep not drops- ROPSAWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:Originally Posted by Dipper Welder64denrep not drops- ROPS
Reply:Back to the original question. I guess no has taken there classes? Boilermaker does the source of the rumer have any more info. iam interested now.
Reply:D1.1 is the qualification that apply's to D14.3, so it is my understanding if you are certified and follow repair criteria provided by manufacturer, that should be all you need. What may be needed is qc inspection to certify repairs this will need researched further.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:well the aws cert is great and covers a lot of msha requirements but we are dealing with cat here awscert great but no way will cat give you there stamp to put on a machine after you have welded it , un less you have cats little piece of paper that says yes this welder took our class and passed and we back up his certification , if god forbid there is an accident and as it was mentioned earlier seat belts not being warn , and one for seat belts if any of you out there like me weld on this equipment for a liveing ( check the date on the seat belts ) they are suppose to be changed every 3 yrs , CYA. and back to the question regaurding cat and class offered , I hered this from a aws welding instructor , so I am like a lot of you , trying to find out for sure , because its a very ugly thing if something goes wrong .and as much backing as possible is needed .any way look forward to replies and I am also trying to find out about this ,
Reply:Send it my way...I've still got my CAT stamp and could update my D14.3 with a phone call. Never took that class but used to do some weld training for them when the CWI was too busy...don't think I left on bad terms...lolAnything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:We change the seat belts at our mine too, We run caterpillar as well as hitachi and others, we rebuild the cab supports for cat haul trucks 785 and 789 which is considered as part of the rops, I am the NDT inspector and we replace the plate according to cat standards using U.T. thickness gauge. Cat in theyre infinite wisdom chose to allow exhaust to get in the inside of the component not such a good Idea in my book. Also it sounds to me you are looking for recertification of Rops which in the 12 years of mining and 5 minesites in Nevada I have never witnessed, Good luck!AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:Perhaps I am crazy, but In my opinion if a situation was to occur and you were challenged in court.  I would bet that an AWS cert that covers the type of repair would ALWAYS carry more leverage than a cert by a manufacturer.   I have dealt with several of the CAT dealers in my area, and that I know of they don't have a certified welder employed.  I know that if it were my butt on the line then I would far rather have someone with an AWS cert do the repair vs. someone who only has a paper that cat says can repair a R.O.P.S   Like I said maybe I am crazy but that's my way of thinking.  I weld on CAT, JohnDeere, Case, etc....  equipment day in and day out, Fact of the matter is I don't have a cert period, but you can bet when i repair something it is done right!  I guess I am just curious why do you feel you need CAT's stamp of approval?  Legal reasons?  Don't get me wrong.  I am not saying someone doesn't need Certification.  in some lines of work it is a necessity, but others like myself.  I don't see where it will benefit.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingPerhaps I am crazy, but In my opinion if a situation was to occur and you were challenged in court.  I would bet that an AWS cert that covers the type of repair would ALWAYS carry more leverage than a cert by a manufacturer.
Reply:Hmmmm....  Well ya learn something new everyday.     I honestly never thought a manufacturer spec would over shadow an aws  cert.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:AWS D1.1 1.1 ScopeThis code contains the requirements for fabricating and erecting welded steel structures. When this code is stipulated in contract documents, conformance with all provisions of the code shall be required, except for those provisions that the Engineer or contract documents specifically modifies or exempts.From pg 1 and yes they can have the last word!AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:your refering to certs as contract documents not so, they only mean you are capable of performing the act  of welding not engineering.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingI honestly never thought a manufacturer spec would over shadow an aws  cert.
Reply:Originally Posted by Dipper Welder64your refering to certs as contract documents not so, they only mean you are capable of performing the act  of welding not engineering.
Reply:welding certs usually are a requirement of the documents wether cat, aws, or John deere. And yes alot of manufacturers refer to the aws filler metal requirements as an example.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:ok ty for all the feed back .I can pass any aws cert there is been in mineing, oil, ship etc etc etc , from philipines to mexico to alaska , I am just wanting to cover my (*****) the company I work for is good in all sence and manners but from what I have seen so far there is a slim chance of any back up and I have been told that by the head field mech supperindendent  and out of 400 employees I am in charge of welding when it comes  to shop ,and like any other big company every thing rolls down hill so I am merely looking into this to head them off , and yes I have rebuilt the rops before and to be honest I dont believe some of it was ever exrayed , funny in a way or more of an oxy moron .
Reply:and ty olddad
Reply:I'm sure everything would be fine. The deal with CAT is odd, outsiders had to jump through hoops for them. BUT, I was in charge of my line on my shift and you wouldn't believe some of the yahoos they gave me and expected to get the job done correctly and at the numbers they set. They are a strange bunch to work for...lol. Half the guys on this board could weld their R.O.P.S. systems without a second thought. But then CAT would be ordinary, they can't have that. Like you said, just CYA.Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Originally Posted by olddadI'm sure everything would be fine. The deal with CAT is odd, outsiders had to jump through hoops for them. BUT, I was in charge of my line on my shift and you wouldn't believe some of the yahoos they gave me and expected to get the job done correctly and at the numbers they set. They are a strange bunch to work for...lol. Half the guys on this board could weld their R.O.P.S. systems without a second thought. But then CAT would be ordinary, they can't have that. Like you said, just CYA.
Reply:[deleted... covered on the second page, which I missed]Last edited by enlpck; 08-14-2007 at 05:27 PM.
Reply:Back to work today and got with a Planner I know who has access to Cat's siss program he'll see what he can find in the next day or so.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:Originally Posted by backuprollercall one of the dealers and ask. as far as the rops, they are heavily engineered and tested. my brother was working for me in a crushing outfit, running a CAT972 front end loader stockpiling the crushed asphalt. we were in the hills in johnson city TN. and stockpiling on the side of the hill. on a trip up to dump some product a boulder slid off the hill onto the road he had built. doing production work of course he was wide open and never seen the rock. when he hit it it flipped the loader off the road and he rolled 2.5 times landing on the cab. he was hanging from the seat-belt like a wet dog when i got to him. he had enough sense about him to turn the loader off on the way over. after getting him out the cab i used the trackhoe to flip the loader back up. my brother was fine, besides being a little shaken up. i changed the oil in the loader and fired it up. the only thing wrong with the tractor was the fiberglass FOPS was cracked a little. went to the cat place and bought a new one. also bent a mirror which we pulled back out.i never thought a 55,000 lb tractor could land on its cab and not crush anything. but my hats off to the engineers at CAT, that puppy held up and saved my brothers life.
Reply:well I am the only certified welder this company has ever had in 18 yrs,and believe me I could open a hardware with all the nuts and bolts that were used for filler material, any way and the certs are a back up for legal actions , reason I am looking more into this is out of 0ver 100 peices of equipment , in my companys wisdom they have hired an army of opperators that barly have there driver liscenses , and so far lost one broom operator over a 100ft cliff, had to cat rock trucks rolled over ( dont rember the #s , and a 3 one wipe out 3 machines while they were parked in fueling area, being fueled ,plus grader wrecks , and 2 track hoe roll overs , so yes I am at the point to get more certs to cover my (****) because as I said earlyer in the legal system now they go after every one so if an accident was caused from a flat tire it all rolls down hill from there and for all that matter its open season .
Reply:Sheez...sounds like you could put a bunch of welders to work with the yahoos they have on the equipment...lol...yes, you definately need to cover you arse in that place !!Anything worth doing is worth doing RIGHT
Reply:Well fellers I finally was able to get some cat ROPS welding info and you would be surprised with what is and isn't allowed, I have it on a cd in pdf format and will see how I can post the info so give me a bit to post,thanks Dipper Welder64AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!
Reply:I have tried to copy info but since it is in pdf I am having problems getting it on the site but this is what is exceptable without recertifying ROPS.Welder QualityNote: The quality of welding repair is dependent on the skill of the welding operator and the material used for the repair. All welds must conform to the standards shown in AWS specificationsfor qualified welds (aws D 1.1).1) only low hydrogen welding is permitted, All welds must be smooth, free of gas holes or cracks and no undercut or overlap.inspection:visually inspect at least every 1000 service hours or as recommended in the operation and / or maintenance guide.Permitted Repairc) Cracks in welds or parent metal of structure:cracks in welds can be repaired as shown in inrepairs in this instruction, parent metal cracks that originate from welds less than 13 mm (.500) can be repaired as shown in repairs in this instruction. Parent metal not originating from the welds can not be repaired.if you are intersted in more info I have the complete specifications and updated in 2007. as for welder requirements it does not mention anything about catepillar courses just what I have typed in above.AWS CWI Hypertherm 850 plasmaLincoln LN-25Lincoln SAE 400Miller Big 40D28' X 36' X 14' Shop_____________________________________Tools are not the the skill but simply tools!