Is 50 amps enough?

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I'll be getting a tig this weekend. I havent made up my mind 100% yet but I'm looking at the miller syncrowave 200dx, lincoln precision tig 225, or the thermal arc arcmaster 185. I allready have a dedicated 50 amp circuit in my garage is that going to be enough? I plan on welding rollcages intake and exhaust manifolds and things like that. The only thing I am a bit concerned about is the ability to weld 3/8"-1/2" 6061 flanges to 1/8" wall tubing for the intake manifolds. Are any of these machines better suited to this type of thing than the other?Thanks
Reply:The 225 will give you the most amps for your buck. I believe the 50 amp circuit will work fine. I have a Precision tig 185 and it uses a 50 amp circuit. I do not know if the 225 requires a 60 or not? - Also I believe the 185 TA 185 is an inverter and will require a much smaller circuit. I believe all of them would weld 1/8 inch tubing to a half inch flange, it is just how much penetration you need. I would not think you would need anything crazy, so all of them would probably work fine.
Reply:Go to Miller's and Lincoln's websites and download the owners manuals for the units you are considering.  The manuals will tell you what the circuit requirements are.  A quick check for the Lincoln PT225 indicates that a 50A breaker is the -minimium- recommended breaker and circuit for the machine.  A 70A breaker is also listed as a choice.  Size the wiring correctly, this is -not- a low amp machine!And 1/2 inch thick 6061 aluminum will take a lot of amps and a lot of passes and a lot of preheat to weld up.  You'll probably need a water-cooled torch to weld up that thick aluminum.Ahhh, 1/8 inch tube -to- the 1/2 inch thick flanges?  You'll still need to preheat that thick aluminum and get the puddle going on the thick piece and then 'wash' it over onto the thinner tube.
Reply:whoops. I did not notice the 6061. I thought we were talking steel. I would say a bigger tig machine might be in order. As stated, you would have to preheat with those machines.
Reply:I have the Lincoln 185 and it works fine on a 50A circuit, however, I'd want to see something a little larger if you are going to run that machine to the max.
Reply:You will need that 225 amp welder.If you set the welding machine to 150 on the dial and push the foot pedal all the way down for a second it will be drawing 35 amps. I checked this with a inductive meter.A 225 amp machine needs to be an a 60-70 amp breaker BUT i have used  a Miller 250 syncrowave for many years on a 50 amp breaker with no problems, but i was using it in the lower range.  WP20 Weldcraft torch, 3/32 tungsten and set on 140 amps. That is the max range of the WP20 torch also. And i was only using a small portion of that.Those thick aluminum weldments WILL require preheating. If you stay in the range of the WP20 size torch you will be alright, If the ceramic cup gets white hot at any time STOP welding and let it cool. You can melt the brazed connections inside the torch and that could get you killed when the coolant leaks all over you.The thing about using a 50 amp service is that you can unplug the connections to move the welding machine around for cleaning the shop,The 60-70 amp service has to the hardwired into the box. You can get 60-70 amp male -female plugs but they are really expensive. You just cannot use the full potential of the welding machine. But like i said with a WP20 torch you can weld most things anyway.
Reply:Any of those machines could weld 1/2" Al. If it were me i would use DC- with 100% helium. It works great for welding thick sections of Al. --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomYou will need that 225 amp welder.If you set the welding machine to 150 on the dial and push the foot pedal all the way down for a second it will be drawing 35 amps. I checked this with a inductive meter.A 225 amp machine needs to be an a 60-70 amp breaker BUT i have used  a Miller 250 syncrowave for many years on a 50 amp breaker with no problems, but i was using it in the lower range.  WP20 Weldcraft torch, 3/32 tungsten and set on 140 amps. That is the max range of the WP20 torch also. And i was only using a small portion of that.Those thick aluminum weldments WILL require preheating. If you stay in the range of the WP20 size torch you will be alright, If the ceramic cup gets white hot at any time STOP welding and let it cool. You can melt the brazed connections inside the torch and that could get you killed when the coolant leaks all over you.The thing about using a 50 amp service is that you can unplug the connections to move the welding machine around for cleaning the shop,The 60-70 amp service has to the hardwired into the box. You can get 60-70 amp male -female plugs but they are really expensive. You just cannot use the full potential of the welding machine. But like i said with a WP20 torch you can weld most things anyway.
Reply:I used mine at 185 with no problems other than a warm hand.
Reply:Thanks for the advice guys. Most of the aluminum welding I'll be doing will be in the 1/8" range. I'd love to get a larger machine but unfortunately I cant afford it. The thick flanges I dont Imagine I'll be doing too often. I can only think of one project that I'll need it for. This will just be for hobby work. I guess I'll find my limits when I pop the breaker  I'll be working out of a rental and dont really want to mess with the wiring. I dont mind swapping the breaker out but I havent been able to find any writing on the wire to tell what its rated for. Am I not looking hard enough of is there another way to tell?
Reply:[QUOTE=Donald Branscom]  WP20 Weldcraft torch, 3/32 tungsten and set on 140 amps. That is the max range of the WP20 torch also. And i was only using a small portion of that.Those thick aluminum weldments WILL require preheating. If you stay in the range of the WP20 size torch you will be alright, If the ceramic cup gets white hot at any time STOP welding and let it cool. You can melt the brazed connections inside the torch and that could get you killed when the coolant leaks all over you.QUOTE]What makes you say that?I run mine @ 300 amps A.C. all the time and never had a problem.. You'll blow the tungestion away way before you "melt a torch"...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by vrmarkiiThanks for the advice guys. Most of the aluminum welding I'll be doing will be in the 1/8" range. I'd love to get a larger machine but unfortunately I cant afford it. The thick flanges I dont Imagine I'll be doing too often. I can only think of one project that I'll need it for. This will just be for hobby work. I guess I'll find my limits when I pop the breaker  I'll be working out of a rental and dont really want to mess with the wiring. I dont mind swapping the breaker out but I havent been able to find any writing on the wire to tell what its rated for. Am I not looking hard enough of is there another way to tell?
Reply:STOP!!!!If you don't -know- what you are doing, don't do it!You don't just put any old breaker in and then plug something in to the outlet and use it.The breaker is there to limit the amount of current flowing in the wire.  It's job is to protect the wire.  You can't just stick a 'bigger' breaker in if the first one trips.Note:  If you know all this, OK.  But some folks don't.  Hence the warnings.Next, by "rental", you mean you are renting a house or apartment?  Sorry, but you really can't change the wiring or breakers yourself.  All wiring in rentals or commercial properties (in the US, you didn't fill in your location in your profile) has to be done by a licensed electrician.The wire will have the AWG size printed on the insulation jacket.  Then, you check an ampacity table to see what that size wire at that length and temperature and fill-ratio etc, etc, etc is rated to carry amps-wise.But if the location is a rental unit in the US, it doesn't matter what wire is in there.  -You- aren't supposed to mess with the wire or breakers.
Reply:I have an arcmaster 185.  Great machine, needs 30 amps max.  I even plug it into my Ranger 250 for aluminum on the road.  I have run it wide open for hours with a WP20 water cooled torch and no problems with the torch or welder.  The water in the 2 gallon cooler gets good and warm.  I have used the WP20 on my invertec V350 at up to 250 amps and had no problems either.What ever you buy, have a blast!DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Moonrise thanks for the warning. I wasnt just going to keep swapping the breakers. Thats why I asked about checking the wire size, if the wiring is rated for a larger capacity then I wouldnt mind having a licenced electrician swap the breaker for me   . The breaker pannel is located about 60 ft from the outlet in the garage. But the wiring goes through a couple jogs in the wall so I'm not messing with it. The breaker it self has welder written right next to it  But I'll take another look at it and make sure it is what its supposed to be before I start welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapster[What makes you say that?I run mine @ 300 amps A.C. all the time and never had a problem.. You'll blow the tungestion away way before you "melt a torch"...zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumAny of those machines could weld 1/2" Al. If it were me i would use DC- with 100% helium. It works great for welding thick sections of Al.
Reply:Originally Posted by kshellrazorI have the Precision Tig 185. Are you saying that the torch that comes with it is not even rated for 185 amps? I can't remember what torch I have, but I am sure it is similar to the PT 225.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomYou will need that 225 amp welder.If you set the welding machine to 150 on the dial and push the foot pedal all the way down for a second it will be drawing 35 amps. I checked this with a inductive meter.A 225 amp machine needs to be an a 60-70 amp breaker BUT i have used  a Miller 250 syncrowave for many years on a 50 amp breaker with no problems, but i was using it in the lower range.  WP20 Weldcraft torch, 3/32 tungsten and set on 140 amps. That is the max range of the WP20 torch also. And i was only using a small portion of that.Those thick aluminum weldments WILL require preheating. If you stay in the range of the WP20 size torch you will be alright, If the ceramic cup gets white hot at any time STOP welding and let it cool. You can melt the brazed connections inside the torch and that could get you killed when the coolant leaks all over you.The thing about using a 50 amp service is that you can unplug the connections to move the welding machine around for cleaning the shop,The 60-70 amp service has to the hardwired into the box. You can get 60-70 amp male -female plugs but they are really expensive. You just cannot use the full potential of the welding machine. But like i said with a WP20 torch you can weld most things anyway.
Reply:Well thanks for all the advice guys. I went to the local lincoln dealer but they wanted 300 more than what I wanted to spend. The local miller guys had a special on the syncrowave 200 DX runner packag. So I went with that... So far I've turned it up to 150 amps without any complaints from the 50 amp breaker. I still need to get a bottle, filler, and some tungston. I'm going to grab about 10' of 1018, 304, and 6061, in 1/8" x 1" flat bar and cut it up into 4" strips for practicing. Dose any one have any suggestions on what type of filler and tungston to get?
Reply:I see you passed on the PrecisionTig 225. I use mine almost every day, and it is a great tool, although I wouldn't recommend it for many 1/2" aluminum jobs. Sure, with pre-heat, and good technique it will do the job on thick materials, but the cuty cycle doesn't make it a practical choice for thick aluminum. I use mine on a 50 amp breaker and if I use 220-230 amps for more than 10 seconds or so it will trip the breaker. I don't use this machine for much thick stuff anyways, so I don't have a problem with the circuit as it is.-Ryan McEachern