Plasma Amp Rating Clarification

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Hey gang,I searched the threads without much luck to this question so I apologize if its been discussed.  I am trying to decide between the Hypertherm 600 and the Thermal Dynamics True cut 52.  The Hypertherm is more expensive however they're claiming 1/2 recommended cut with just 40 amps while Thermal Dynamics is claiming the same 1/2 recommended cut but they're putting out 60 amps.Am I missing something.  Thermal Dynamics is either very inefficient with 1/2 again as many amps or Hypertherm is overstating their capacity.  Can anyone tell me what I'm missing or am I overthinking this.  I plan on needing the unit for 1/4 and 3/8 work so following all of your recommendations to buy not for what you need to cut but instead buy above that so your not running the pants off the unit.  I don't have experience with any of these manufacturers and I doubt I would go wrong with either but is there an advantage to having 60 amps or is 40 amps more than enough.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:Hypertherm's ratings are not over inflated, it can do what it states.  I have the 1000 and love it!I got it on eBay from Harris Welding, they were the best deal at the time since they included extra consumables and other goodies.  (the glasses are actually very nice.)http://cgi.ebay.com/Hypertherm-Power...QQcmdZViewItemIf you can afford the $$$ step it up to the PowerMax 1000 it is a kick *** machine!  Me!
Reply:I have the 600 and I have cut 3/4.   It works and the electrodes last a long time.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:In fact, the TD brochures states that they understate the rating in order to rate more accurately a "quality" cut, as opposed to "sever". (Notice the maximum cut is 1-1/8")The fact is, either machine. set at 40 amps will cut "virtually" the same. The question then becomes: Can you use 60 amps? I have owned a TD true cut 82 for a couple months now. It's the nicest plasma I have ever used.  I'm betting that if I had purchsed a Hypertherm, I'd be equally as satisfied.One note: For thin stuff, I like to use a smaller tip, and the machine turned down.  I get a much cleaner cut with less slag when I use only the power needed. I know guys that run theirs wide open all the time. But then, they are using smaller machines also.The best things in life all come on a stick!
Reply:Thanks for the feedback. I have on occassion needed to and probably will still need to cut some 5/8 and 3/4 but that would be rare so I'm not sure that I would need the extra 20 amps.  Still, the TD is about $100 cheaper than the Hypertherm so I think I might be leaning that way.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:I think the TD is the better choice. Hypo's are great plasmas but when I tried the two out last year I found the TD to do a better job and has a little more punch. I have read several times that others said the same thing. It's all in the quality of the cut that the amps become more inportant. My cutmaster 38 is rated up to 5/8 severe cut @ 40 amps on 220 volt input. I have cut 1/2 and it did a good job but the cut speed was very slow. The other big factor for me between the tow was that the TD cunsumables are half the cost of the hypo. The cunsumables last a very long time as long as you have enough cool dry air.Miller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:There is a lot of differences in technology between brands and models of plasma cutters. While most manufacturers compare their units amperage to amperage....in reality it is a combination of the output power in watts...combined with the torch and consumable design that provides for different performance.Todays inverter plasma systems are constant current outpu...meaning if it is set at 40 Amps...it will produce 40 amps under virtually all cutting conditions. However, when you cut thicker material....or stretch the arc by cutting with a higher standoff...the ARC VOLTAGE increases. When you multiply cutting current (AMPS) x cutting voltage...you will get the wattage output from the plasma system. One big difference in power supply design is with the maximum amount of output voltage it can sustain at a given output amperage.....at a given input line voltage condition. The best power supply designs will cut materials much thicker than the manufacturer says they are designed for...and that is because they have the ability to maintain a very long, high voltage arc. Why is this important? When you cut thick material with plasma the arc lags....when you get near the edge...the top of the arc actually goes off the edge of the plate....and the bottom remains attached..attempting to maintain the arc under high voltage conditions. Lesser power supplies with extinguish the arc....forcing you to go back and reignite to drop the cut part....while systems with better design will drop the cut on the first pass. I have seen a few posts on this and other sites aluding to compaisons of maximum current draw of one plasma system to another. When a power supply has the ability to create a very long arc at a given amperage....the power comes from the input line. The Hypertherm Powermax600 (40 Amp input) draws around 40 Amps when operating on 240 volt single phase input...when cutting 5/8" thick material. If you cut thicker material....and stretch the arc at the end of the cut (as described above)...the input current will momentarily increase. If you cut 1-1/4" material with a Powermax600 (yes it can be done) expect the input current to be higher than the rated current of 40 Amps...because you are cutting at 40 Amps at high arc voltage. You can operate a Powermax600 on a 40 to 50 Amp breaker at 240 volt single phase....but if you push it to extremes..by cutting thicker than it is advertised to cut...it could occasionally trip the breaker.Torch designs from manufacturer to manufacturer also very. Since plasma uses an ionized, pressurized gas that electrical energy is added to...and the temperature can reach 30,000 degrees F.....then you can safely assume that there are some high tech physics that have to be paid attention to when designing the torch and consumables.The Powermax600 ues something called co-axial flow technology...which splits the air flow at the torch into plasma forming flow, and coaxial shield flow. Without getting into a lot of detail...the coaxial flow increases the energy density and velocity of the plasma jet...effectively producing cut speed and thickness capabilities that rival higher powered competitors.Consumable life is a factor to consider also...and becomes more important the more you use the plasma system. Hypertherm units are designed to provide superior consumable life (the consumables may be the same price as competors parts...but if they last dramatically longer..it is advantageous) along with the higher performance in terms of thickness and speed.Test drive all of the brands cutting the same thickness materials...and especially doing the drop cut test described above! Then make your choice.Jim Colt
Reply:I have had a Linde 30 Transformer model.  It is rated for 3/8" and would just barely cut it.  I could do a better job with the Oxy torch.  SO when I want shopping for a new one, I thought I needed 60 to 80 amps.  My lws said "take that one and try it".  It was a hyertherm 600 rated at 40 amps.  I tried it, liked it and bought it.  I cut some 3/4" with it and it looked good.  The electrodes last MANY times longer than the ones in the old linde with a PT31XL torch.  I do a lot of work and its plenty big for me.  To cut 1/2", its easier to use the plasma than the Oxy torch.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Jimcolt,  thanks for the explanation. I noticed you kept referring to Hypertherm and used words like superior etc.  Do you own a Hypertherm or are you linked to them in some way (dealer etc). I think the information is great however now I have to see how that compares to Thermal Dynamics since you gave most of your explanation from the Hypertherm side. Don't read it into the comments too much, I'm looking for responses from the the guys that use them everyday and make a living with them.  I don't think I can go wrong with either I'm just not fully understanding why TD compares the same cut at the higher amps.  If anyone out there can give me TD's side as JimColt did for Hypertherm that would be appreciated.Thanks again,  the information is definately good to have.MichaelMillermatic 25115" Rockwell Drill Press10" Logan Lathe5hp - 2-stage 80 Gallon CompressorHome Made Sand / Soda Blaster
Reply:TD and Hypertherm each make excellent units.  From the information I gathered before I purchased my unit Hypertherm has a better torch design and higher cut rates (with same quality) The consumable life is also very good.  Me!
Reply:Michael,I own a Hypertherm Powermax30 and a Powermax1000. I work for Hypertherm...have been with them for 30 years in a variety of capacities.Jim Colt