am i in too deep?

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Hello, im going to be honest, i dont have the slightest clue about welding. i am on here because i recently bought a car that has some rust on the frame rails. i was thinking about doing it my self, im 19 and figured why not, i can only gain trying this. so i was wondering if any one has done this kind of thing, my idea is cut the rust out, go to the junk yard, cut a new section out, and weld them together and then use 1/8 sheet metal to support the sides. i also would like to know what kind of welder to get. if my boss doesnt have one then im going to invest in one, i hear itll pay for itself. anyway i was just researxching how to come about somthing like this, thank you for your time.
Reply:My hats off for wanting to just jump in and do it, but.....Do you know how extensive the rust is? I mean have you really poked around?That car looked like a unibody, so lets say you cut out the "frame rail" is there gonna be good metal around it to weld the new one to?I had a Jeep cherokee that had what appeared to be a "small" hole in the floor,I got a piece of sheet, pulled out the carpet and started cutting sheet metal out. By the time I got all the rusty stuff out dinner was ready and I had to fab up new floor pans. As for the kind of welder you should get what do you plan on doing?
Reply:i am sorry, the car is indeed a unibody and i did have the intentions to just cut the frame out and weld a new on in place, for what i can see, around the rail looks fairly solid, the only other rust would be in the back seat floor. as for what kind of welding, basically this. and a well rounded one to mess around with when/if i get good at it.
Reply:Originally Posted by raptor6sixtyi am sorry, the car is indeed a unibody and i did have the intentions to just cut the frame out and weld a new on in place, for what i can see, around the rail looks fairly solid, the only other rust would be in the back seat floor. as for what kind of welding, basically this. and a well rounded one to mess around with when/if i get good at it.
Reply:thank you alot. alot of things you said were kinda gibberish to me but thats what the internets for. the reason i ask is because i keep reading stories of terrible frame rot and body rust and they said that when they did it them selves that that saved alot of money and gained alot of experiance. (http://www.nissanforums.com/member-r...989-240sx.html) i think my friend has an arc welder though so thats kind of a plus. also, should i buy the materials at a specific store?Last edited by raptor6sixty; 03-14-2008 at 10:34 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by raptor6sixtythank you alot. alot of things you said were kinda gibberish to me but thats what the internets for. the reason i ask is because i keep reading stories of terrible frame rot and body rust and they said that when they did it them selves that that saved alot of money and gained alot of experiance. (http://www.nissanforums.com/member-r...989-240sx.html) i think my friend has an arc welder though so thats kind of a plus. also, should i buy the materials at a specific store?
Reply:I've done work like that before, First thing I can tell you thats already been said. I guarantee the rust is worse than you can see. Best way to start is to get out your angle grinder and start grinding off all the surface paint, rust, and dirt so you can see how bad it is. You'll find parts that arent completely rotten through but still need to be cut out. after you do that mark the peices that need to be removed and step back think long and hard...  Projects like this can go from hard but possible, to rediculus and pointless real fast.I like to party!
Reply:To answer your original question, yes.  You need a lot of exp to weld on frames.  Like Rojodiablo  said, start on the floor pans.  Here is a job I did a week or two ago.  similar, but a little bigger.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=19785You have to remove ALL the rusty plate until you get to something good to weld to.  I can't weld to rust.  I just aint that good.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I usually plan to find 3X the amount of rust that you can see on the surface. Cut out all the ALL bad stuff till you have good metal to weld to or you'll be frustrated with the blow through when you do start welding. I used cardboard to make the templates then traced it on to the sheet metal to make the piece. I used a 1/4" - 1/2" overlap (cut the metal a little larger than the hole/template). I welded on both sides and used an automotive seam sealer on top of the welds afterwards. You can cut to exact size and butt weld also if you want to hide the repair or if it's a $100,000 collectible car. Practice lots on some thin scrap to get the feel for it before starting on your project. You need to get a feel for how much heat before melting through the metal and creating a hole....do that on scrap not your vehicle. Good luck, my welding addiction started with new floors in a 1976 Datsun 280Z.If you don't want to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them.
Reply:I did a lot of patch work on old 70's mopars back in the day. Mostly fixing floor pans trunk floors and quarter panels. All the advice above is great. Look into places like JC whitneys for replacement floor and panel sections. They used to sell them for most commom makes. Why reinvent the wheel and custom bend and cut metal if you don't have to.  As said the rust is ALWAYS bigger than you think. I spent about 3 days fixing the drivers side floor of a Mack dump truck. Make a panel, fit it, weld it in, cut another section out, repeat and so on. Then I went out and bought the whole pass side floor pan from Mack and we had it in in under 3 hrs. Just cut it ALL out and welded the new one in. Wished we had done this at first, but hey it can't be that bad, how long can it take? We'll save money by doing it ourself rather than buying the parts! Yeah RIGHT!
Reply:Your in deep...You'll have to replace the steering rack soon also..One thing leads to another..And another..And another..Been there done that..'Aint doing it again.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterYour in deep...You'll have to replace the steering rack soon also..One thing leads to another..And another..And another..Been there done that..'Aint doing it again.....zap!
Reply:Your in deep...You'll have to replace the steering rack soon also..One thing leads to another..And another..And another..Been there done that..'Aint doing it again..
Reply:Rust repair, there is a can of worms I hate to open, LOL.I'm glad to see you enthusiastic about trying this yourself. However this is somthing most old timers won't even tackle for any amount of money. As said above its always three times the amount you think.That rust is in a critical place, and doesn't look to be the only spot that needs some TLC. My opinion if this is a car you want to keep around, or do a full build/restoration. Find a better starting point. Find a car with a better body and use it for a starting point. There is just too much involved in this repair for someone with no welding experience. Your safety isn't worth the risk.Patriot Performance AutoLincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln AC-225 StickVictor Journeyman O/AQuincy QT-5 Compressor
Reply:I'm so glad I live in the southwest.  We don't get that kinda rust out here.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Your getting $1.95 change on a nickel question!1.  Does it run?2.  Is it tagged and insured?3.  Do you drive it?If you can't answer yes to 2 out of 3 of these questions, you may be better suited to selling it off in parts or to scrap.I've got 3 incredible rusting hulks of my own. 2 are tagged and insured and are quietly spending their retirement years in relative ease. The thirds future with me is in serious doubt.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:i had big plans for this car, couldnt find one as cheap as i got this one for obvious reasons. i thought about going to a community college for welding when i got out of school, but with most things i do, i kept putting it off. so when i bought this car it really fired me up again and i still want to get into welding, looks fun. as for the car, most of you seem to think i should just sell it and start over. i know a man who has an idea of welding from his co workers but hasnt had much experience himself. as for repairing the rust and it then in time rusting again, i think they make a rust prevention spray and tehn they reccomend you paint over it. i guess ill have to go to bed early tonight to sleep on this dilema, keep it and weld or sell it. as for the actual repair process, i would have to cut out about an extra six inces each way of the rust and repair it there if the metal is solid? my intentions would be to cut it out of a junkyard car. but after reading about how some of you welding guru's wouldnt even touch a car like this, im reconsideriding. anywho, i was surprised to see how many people have responded to this desperate cry for help. i thank all of you for your time and advice.
Reply:Originally Posted by raptor6sixtyi had big plans for this car, couldnt find one as cheap as i got this one for obvious reasons. i thought about going to a community college for welding when i got out of school, but with most things i do, i kept putting it off. so when i bought this car it really fired me up again and i still want to get into welding, looks fun. as for the car, most of you seem to think i should just sell it and start over. i know a man who has an idea of welding from his co workers but hasnt had much experience himself. as for repairing the rust and it then in time rusting again, i think they make a rust prevention spray and tehn they reccomend you paint over it. i guess ill have to go to bed early tonight to sleep on this dilema, keep it and weld or sell it. as for the actual repair process, i would have to cut out about an extra six inces each way of the rust and repair it there if the metal is solid? my intentions would be to cut it out of a junkyard car. but after reading about how some of you welding guru's wouldnt even touch a car like this, im reconsideriding. anywho, i was surprised to see how many people have responded to this desperate cry for help. i thank all of you for your time and advice.
Reply:Interesting thread!   I would split your goals.   1)  Learn to weld. Get a welder, buy a couple hundred dollars of metal and/or scrap.  Build a welding cart.  Make some shelving.  Fix up the garage.  Reorganize the basement.  Do some repair work for friends.   Take a course.  Check out schools like Lincoln has - they will prepare you for certification in X number of weeks, depending on your selection.  2) decide what to do with your car without the welding - I'm a novice, taken a class, been doing projects for a couple of years, and I'm always running into situations where "whoa, that didn't come out right".  Let's just say I'm glad I'm not welding something that may be carrying a family down the interstate at 70 miles an hour.   Other thoughts:  when you buy the welder and start welding for $n , you will see a need for 2.5 x $n of other things you need: tools, clamps, saws, drills, bits, grinders, etc, etc.  How are you going to cut out the bad pieces?  Do you have a torch or plasma?  I can see how a plasma would really help out on this project - but that is more cost.    There will be a time in the future when you will know enough about welding to accept or reject a project like this.  But that's exciting, isn't it?
Reply:Alot of good comments .  My advice is what you don't measure you don't control. Find the extent of the probem and plan the correction . You do have from what I see a problem that I don't understand how far you will need to go to correct. I think I would plan on making a totally new frame. I say that becuase I see what the others and I have seen alot of hard work to correct. It can be done and you will be able to take alot of pride doing it. Post pictures of you steps and ask for suggestion on them and it will help you.
Reply:in regards to the making a new frame entirely, to you guys it more than likely sounds easier to do that than to weld to the cleaned up "rust". you think i would pass inspection if i welded a new fame on each side of the original fame? as for you guys who weld by trade, i would like to know a few things. i would like to know if there is a high demand for welding in the area you live in, (i live in a quiet town in North East Pennsylvania) or is it anything like education where there are just too many people jumping on the band wagon. i understand with devotion come increase in pay with any job, but i was wondering if i were to weld as a career would that be enough to suppot myself and perhaps a family one day. my freinds dad works with welders and he says they are very interesting people. i have no idea what i want to do with my life, ive tried college but i just didnt like it, and now i work construction for $9/hr. im just mixed up in this so called game of life, kind of beat and dont know what to do. i guess ill just cut my losses and sell the car.
Reply:looks like a 240sx. Yep i know all about that. It's my drift car and i have the same problem but worse lol.Dont sell it. It's a fairly simple fix. Look around the 240 forums and u'll find info out about what people did. Check CLUBfr and there is a guy named Crabs who has pix and everything of how he fixed itStupid salt
Reply:ha, i agree about the salt. it is indeed a 240sx. i am actually going to part it out, buy my friends 240 and swap transmissions, and then once its down to the frame....either fix it and start from scratch or junk the chassis.
Reply:Raptor, As far as I am concerned there is definitly a future in welding, It depends where you live but around here (Milwaukee) manufacturers are screaming for welders. If you have a pulse and can show up to work and pull the trigger on a MIG welder you can get 14 an hour no problem. If you have experience the sky is the limit.I did the same thing, I went to college cuz thats what they tell you to do.Which looking back pisses me off for several reasons. But after two years of Mech Engineering I was fed up. So I learned to weldI make good money, Im not rich but I have what matters to me. Everybody is fed, I almost have enough to buy a house and I dont have to wear a tie and sit in a cubicle.In my "office" I can spit, cuss, fart, blow snot rockets in the trash can (if its close) and I feel like I have a "real" job. I have alot of pride knowing I dont have some panty-waist office job. Sure they are important but just not for me.I was born in 1980, it seems like almost everyone in my generation was pretty much told that you had to go to college if you wanted any quality to your life. And I think thats a crockAnd it just wasn't for me. Rant over.P.S. To my Guidance counseler at Glasgow High School in Delaware, Mr. Isbell.Hey *******! I made it! Sit on it and spin!
Reply:I have to agree with burnit.I was born in 79I have 2 college degrees, and don't use either of them.(my wife has three and she doesn't use them either)I work as a mechanic, set my own schedule, take the jobs I want, and really enjoy my work.ESAB MIGMASTER 250and a No Name AD Helmet from my Local Supplier...In the only color that matters...CAMO