wanting to weld up a gas tank

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Almost got my 79 Ford running.  I want to weld me up a gas tank to put in the bed for gas for our quads.  Easier than hauling gas cans to the dunes.  Pull up to the truck, turn on the pump, and fill.  What metal should I use and what process should I use?Victor OXY setupMiller Thunderbolt XL AC/DCLooking for a Miller Mig
Reply:Which ever process you are most comfortable with.  Do a search, you may find a few others to get ideas from.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:You could do that but WHY?There are lots of rules and considerations about gas tanks.Why not just buy a gas tank that is already manufactured? it will cost you less and you won't have to do all that homework. by the time you buy all the correct size fittings and figure out where the baffles need to go and the mounting etc.,etc.,.you could be riding your quad.They make aluminum and plastic fuel tanks and the plastic tanks are approved by the US. Coast Guard.Google them or go to West Marine boat catalogue.You can get any shape and size you want.Also try Grainger or Mc Master Carr. You need a special spark free type pump or hand operated pump.
Reply:Why would I need to figure out where the baffles go?  All the race cars I have worked on none of the fuel cells we used had baffles.  Just a big hollow canister with a vent up top and a cap.  I am thinking about just welding up a big rectangle that fits back there with the bottom being at an angle to push all the fuel to the one side that has the pump.  What thickness metal whould I need?Victor OXY setupMiller Thunderbolt XL AC/DCLooking for a Miller Mig
Reply:Beleve me, this is one of to those deals you can buy it cheaper than make it.I raced NHRA for a few years and seen a lot of tanks.Unlees of course you "just want to do it, for the satisfaction, then cost goes out the window.ThanksJohn
Reply:To let you know it its illegal to haul gasoline in a unapproved tank.  It must have a UL, DOT, NFPA stamps.  I believe its something like a $1000 fine in most states if not more.   Diesel do to its higher flash point, you can put that in a commerically bought transfer tank.  Just stick to some metal type 1 safety gas cans.  BTW plastic gas cans are already outlawed on all commerical vehicles.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Most of the regulations affect only those who 'make/manufacture for sale' or those which are 'offered for sale' not individuals who make their own.  Make the dern thing hold 25 to 50 gallons and that way it is well beyond regulations for 'portable' containers.
Reply:Never thought of the legal aspect of it.  Doubt it would have any affect where I live. I ride my quad all over town without it being street legal or registered.  If the project does happen it is atleast 1-2 months away anyway.  Just look for ideas.Victor OXY setupMiller Thunderbolt XL AC/DCLooking for a Miller Mig
Reply:I would love to watch you explain that to a DOT officer.  Um officer they only apply to commerically made tank, right tell it to the judge, oh here is your $1000 ticket and your impound lot ticket.  Have a nice day. I am a volly fire fighter and a went to college for fire science and engineering.  If you got into an accident and it exploded, oh the lawsuit would be unbelieveable.  Someone would want to know where you got your certifications and your stamps.  Probable jail time for manslaughter too with the way stuff goes today.  Transfer tanks are held under different rules than the regular fuel tank for the truck.  Which is why custom tanks in like race cars are able to slide by.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:Originally Posted by itsgottobegreenI would love to watch you explain that to a DOT officer.  Um officer they only apply to commerically made tank, right tell it to the judge, oh here is your $1000 ticket and your impound lot ticket.  Have a nice day. I am a volly fire fighter and a went to college for fire science and engineering.  If you got into an accident and it exploded, oh the lawsuit would be unbelieveable.  Someone would want to know where you got your certifications and your stamps.  Probable jail time for manslaughter too with the way stuff goes today.  Transfer tanks are held under different rules than the regular fuel tank for the truck.  Which is why custom tanks in like race cars are able to slide by.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sandy ...Fuel tanks for trucks get built every day, one is being built right now...
Reply:When I realized what baffles do, I thought ...huh, that's a good idea! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I have to go with the buy one over build one crowd. Northern sells several small gas transfer tanks for fueling vehicles relatively inexpensively.IF you choose to build it your self keep these things in mind. Gas expands/vaporises in confined space in high heat. A car truck will get very hot so leave a good deal of room for expansion. Also you probably don't want gas vapors collecting in the trunk/cabin area so you need to make it seal well, which means it needs to take the pressure increase as the gas expands or it needs to vent to the exterior of the vehicle.Be sure the tank is well grounded. Several people have been seriously burned by filling tanks in vehicles/ pickup beds and a static spark lit up the fumes. Gas by it self is not overly flammable but gas vapors, say those that collect in a hot empty tank are explosive. With out a ground on the tank you will find out that there was a static spark when you wake up in the burn ward.Not all transfer pumps are rated for gas. Many are only for diesel or oil. They do not have explosion proof motors required for gas. Check this because a motor spark will cause the same problems as an ungrounded tank above.If you are serious about this maybe this might serve better. Tie into your existing gas line from your tank and add an extra 12v fuel pump. Just pump the gas from your tank to the 4X. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a state highway patrol had a adapter mounted on their patrol cruisers that allowed then to dispense a small quantity of gas to stranded motorists. Similar idea to this above. This doesn't work on today's high pressure fuel systems but for a 79 it might work fine.As always around gas, check for leaks and use common sense and extreme caution. BTW I would definitely add at least one good fire extinguisher to the trunk and one in the cab.Good luck.
Reply:I have held a CDL-A with Tank and HAZMAT endorsements since 1987. (dropped the HAZ last december at renewel due to a documentation SNAFU about fingerprints.  I can pick that up at any time, I'm just not driving commercially right now and don't see the need to spend another $100 bucks.)  Anyway, To the best of my knowledge, you can transport a flammable liquid (such as gasoline or diesel fuel) in a container not to exceed 450 liters/119 gallons (new regs, see 49 CFR 173.8(c) - old regs was 110 gallons) that is not plumbed into the vehicle's fuel system.  The container has to be secured to the vehicle and of metal construction that doesn't leak and will survive an upset (roll over?) intact.How you construct the container to meet those requirements is your problem.  If you are driving about the county to fuel your recreational ATVs you may not have any issues with a home-made container.  If you intend on going over the road for long trips or out of state you may run into problems with hot-shot truck cops in far away places.  I know more than one driver who paid fines for bogus "violations" because it was cheaper to pay than to defend.As for liability... each of us is responsible for conducting our own risk assessments.  Unfortunately too few people take this responsibility seriously and most states have mandatory motor vehicle insurance laws (Except in NH where the motto is Live Free or Die). If you have any concerns then by all means, buy a manufactured tank.  At least if there is an incident you have a shot at deflecting any related litigation to the manufacturer and/or seller.-MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sandy...You'll have one heck of a time convincing anyone that a plastic container sold by walmart is somehow safer than one constructued of steel....
Reply:I haven't seen any plastic containers with spring-loaded caps,
Reply:I made a 12 gallon years ago. I used 14 ga. steel and O/A. Something like 9' of welds and only a handful of leaks when I pressure checked it. Remember that all the scale from welding is going to be spalling off in your fuel, filtering is important. I'd just use those motocross plastic jugs now.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I sent an email to a local law question web site.  I will see what they say.Victor OXY setupMiller Thunderbolt XL AC/DCLooking for a Miller Mig
Reply:get a transfer tank.  By the time you buy materials, weld in the baffles, and have it pressure tested (assuming you would do it for safety reasons) you could buy a transfer tank that already has a pump.Check your local craigslist.
Reply:Check this out from West Marine; a lot higher than I thought. But I'm a cheap skatehttp://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...78&classNum=79And then there needs to be some way to pump it! But, it would be nice not to lug those cans around!
Reply:ok news up date on fuel capaitys better chech and see what ( home land security) has come up with if you can retro fit a tank (factory manufactured )seperate from the cab and is like the diesel tanks you see that are add ons in pickup beds , but gasoline tanks have to be painted hazardous red with a plate visible driver and passenger and rear if you dont it could be ugly trying to cross a bridge or damm if  there are security check points ,
Reply:To investigate another option, google "fuel bladder."The military and contractors have been using these extremely tough rubberized fabric bladders for fuel storage and for fuel depots for decades.  I wouldn't be surprised to find that they can survive a collision better than a metal tank.  I seem to remember seeing a newsreel (anybody remember those?) showing fuel bladders being parachuted to the ground simply strapped to pallets.One advantage is that they collapse as fuel is withdrawn so you don't have a large, explosive fuel/air mixture and you don't get condensation inside the bladder at night because air is not drawn in.I know nothing at all about legalities, approvals, cost or the "made of metal" requirement cited by Mondo, but I'm sure several of the manufacturers that come up in a search would have plenty of information.  I'll bet that you could find a stock model that fits snugly in your pickup bed or in half of it.awright
Reply:why does everyone say this thing needs a baffle system...its a fuel transfer tank not a fuel tank....it doenst need baffles like a car fuel tank...it doesnt matter if it sloshes aroundin the tank...its just transfer....you will need an electric or hand pump to transfer and a fill....normally 1 1/2 inch pipe couplings work great... an electric pump and a 3psi vented fill cap...make it shorter than your truck bed and secure it with some 1/2 inch grade 8 bolts to your bed...THATS IT!!! it shouldnt be this complicated to build...and i have never heard of a law stating that it had to be a code tank but i have been wrong before...AWS CWI/CWEASNT NDT Level 2 PT/MTAWS Certified Welder(aerospace)
Reply:100 gals of fuel sloshing around in the bed of a pickup isnt cool, baffles are.
Reply:Full at 100 gal there won't be much movement. At 3/4 full there will be plenty of room to get the fluid moving. Diesel weighs around 7 lb/ gal if I remember, gas a bit less. That's about 500 lbs shifting in the back. In the marine industry/ navy its referred to as free surface area. A partially flooded compartment is significantly more dangerous than a completely flooded one due to the movement of liquids. The weight moving back and forth acts like a battering ram.Baffles cut down the distance the liquid can move and build up momentum. 500 lbs + slamming from side to side will cause problems. Do you really think a company would go thru all the expense in installing baffles in tanks if there wasn't a very good reason to do so?