Respect in the shop?

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Well, first off, I’m not sure whether this is a question, or more of a statement/comment..I’m sure I’ll catch a few flames, but hey, speak your mind, I’m about to speak mine…I have been in the welding trade off and on for roughly three years now.  I just had my 21st birthday.  I learned to weld when I was 18. I was in a co-operative education program in high school; my placement was at a local nuclear facility, it was mostly TIG and I did quite well.  My foreman told me to keep up the good work and it would most likely turn into an apprenticeship.  It didn’t. I continued welding on the side, a little bit in my high schools automotive shop, (our school wasn’t large enough to have a welding class/shop) and a lot of work on the side hard facing and building up loader buckets and some repair work on skidders and farm equipment.  I decided welding was just about the only thing that I was good at, so I moved away and went to college taking a welding/fitting program that would leave me graduating with honors and a 2 year diploma.Not to toot my own horn, but I’m a decent welder. Now my main problem is respect in the shop.  It’s getting better than it was, but, is it THIS common that older tradesmen have no respect for the next generation?  Did I do something wrong? None of them have ever had problems with my welding, in fact they say it is quite good, as is my fitting,  but any time I try to share my knowledge I get shot down and basically told that  I’m just a kid, so I couldn’t possibly know what I’m talking about.This has happened to me on many occasions in several shops, some days I just want to quit. Why is there this “mentality” that because I’m young enough to be your son, I couldn’t possibly know anything worth knowing?  Now I understand that in the eyes of many I should be “paying my dues in the trade” and I also believe that, and I do. However, I don’t really think it will help me much when my mentors think they need to be some kind of harda** and put me in my place every chance they get.   I just want to know if this is normal, or maybe I should find greener pastures.Flame away…PS:  I am in no way, shape or form stating that ALL tradesmen are like this, just wondering how often you have run into this sort of thing in your shops? Maybe I’m just the chosen one? lol
Reply:Did you do something wrong? That's hard to say. I had one guy that I worked with that I found out almost 2 years later that he hated me for one off color remark that was made on his first day. I never thought there was a problem and he never said anything about the comment but he just took every remark I made after that like I was out to get him. Shame, he was a nice guy and I never intended the comment for him, but he overheard it and thought I did.Respect, well you have to earn it. We bust the balls of almost everyone that comes to work here. If you're older you don't get it as bad but you still get it. Whine and cry about it and you'll get it worse. Show you can take it and do your job well then you earn the respect of those who have been there longer. We really beat the crap out of my bosses nephew when he worked for us the first summer. My boss was as bad as the rest of us. Kid started out with an attitude and he got put in his place fast. By the end of the summer he would give as good as he got and the next year he'd be the first to do the same to even older guys that were starting out. I still expect it to some degree when I start working for some one new. If I can prove that I know what I am doing, I get left alone. If not then its an uphill battle.Don't worry, in time you'll be the "old guy" and get to do the same to the Noobe. Just try and make yourself a note that you really do know everything now, because as you get older you forget. Stick with it. good luck.
Reply:Funny... I would never say anything that silly to my worker... If they are good, I say excellent, If they are bad... I point it out to them... If they are lazy, I give them a chance,... If they are presistence , I tell them they are over qualified and should take my seat...In a shop, manager and worker goes hand in hand ( I mean the literally) cooperation and trust is a must and all in a team work package... if yeah not a team player then u r in a wrong field...Sorry to hear that happen to you... but its a chance to prove u can be better and a challange that they are wrong in their view point... experience is earn from hardship and mistake... it does take time and cold shoulder...Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:well I started welding when I was 12 now I am 41 and for some brainless reason I am still welding , I did the same thing you did and went threw the same shop b.s you are going threw ,mind you I still learn some thing every day its on going there will always be some one out there to hand out there 10 cents but dont let it get to you , my dad told me something and it makes sence ( just because some one is an a(*&(%$ hole dosent mean you have to be one ) I always kept that in mind when some self proclaimed expert started in on me , just keep up the good work
Reply:I would imagine most of us have been in that spot before...I have worked with guys that told me" your the welder, Im the fitter...I'll do my job you do yours!"  Just for tring to help out...So you sit back and let them do it there way...The reason for this is because they have done it there way for so long that they cant except change and don't know HOW to do it any other way...and new ideas would threaten them in thier minds!!  Other people just think that your young and wet behind the ears...others just want to push there authority around!  My advice to you is to ride the wave...learn and remember the things that you see, apply them when you can...suggest ideas when you can't and ask them why this way is better than the other way...when they shut you down, tell them that you are trying to learn and would like a explination...eventually you will run into someone that will take you under his wing and show you the ropes!!Jonesy
Reply:That happens all the time. I have had guys half my age try an' treat me like that just because I was a newbie on THAT job. Someone feels the need to show me how to use a torch or grind. Stuff like that just happens, and yes mostly to the younger guys( I guess everybody thinks I am still 25-30 when they see me). Some of the old guys can get tired of younger guys coming in all hot s#it and not listen, pay attention or execute the way that they think they should.Then you have the insecure worker seeing his job stolen by  young, energetic, fresh blood. Yes, he is going to have an A+attitude.Some people just have to jab at you because they are jealous of you.I know there are more reasons, but these come to mind first.You can practice biting your toung.
Reply:You also have to remember that "it" may sound negative but it could be possibly sometimes that older guys want to pass down their valuable experience and that its so important to them that they may not know another way of stressing it hard enough.
Reply:In my trade we have apprentices. Some guys treat them like crap no matter how good they are other like myself treat everyone like a man. We of course bust balls...but for most of the "cool" guys its more of a situation of if no one is busting your balls it means you are not part of the club and that no one likes you. Now some apprentices are journeymen traped in apprentice bodies whereas most of these new guys/girls we get are useless and have huge attitude problems and can't seem to show up ready to work. This crowd really gets hammered. When I broke in I almost never spoke to anyone beacuse I did not want what I said to be turned around on me ect..My suggestion is to give as good as you get within reason PENDING your work can back your shtuff up. Be honest with yourself...if you are sub par then you may want to lay low...the nail that sticks out gets hammered...but if you are a solid hand that produces day in and day out give it right back and under no circumstances let anyone know if something REALLY bothers you, that will only make it worse.But be a man...If you are not sure how to do something or mess something up ect... ask someone and get help if needed. The difference between a man and a boy is a man can admit he does not know something and will seek the advice and counsel of those that do. A man can admit to a mistake and make every effort to fix it. A boy thinks he knows it all and will hide a mistake at all costs.NEWS FLASH even the best guys out there have messed up something and chances are they did the same thing you did and they know how to fix it AND WHY it got messed up in the first place and how to avoid that in the future.This trade, all trades really, need more real MEN and WOMEN and less little boys and girls.'Mike
Reply:I have had this happen to me at both shops that i have worked at since i graduated high school. At the first  place i got it so bad that it finally came to blows... not the best idea i was very immature at that time and it ruined the everything for me for the rest of the time i worked there.My new job is no different a little worse if you ask me.Im only 22 but i have worked here for almost 3 years and have taken a crap load from everyone(grease in shoes, tools scatered and the list goes on) but i have kept my head down and let my work do the talking. I have finally gained some respect form some of my coworkers. I feel that is the best way just keep you head down and dont let them get to you.
Reply:None of them have ever had problems with my welding, in fact they say it is quite good, as is my fitting, but any time I try to share my knowledge I get shot down and basically told that I’m just a kid, so I couldn’t possibly know what I’m talking about.
Reply:Mmmm... almost forgotten... boy never grow up... they turn into big boys... that why they have bigger TOYS and expensive hobbies... Now in a working environment... The big boys just need respect to throw some weight before showing the rope... you either learn something from it or use it for hangman...They just want to make sure u know how to handle their TOYS and not break it... (one of the reason)BTW... I seen most of your thread and u seem to be a sane MAN... You'll have your own Toy shop someday... WeldRus... maybeUnit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:Sony, the best advice i can give you, is when they give you a hard time, give it to them right back.  As most people have said, if they are teasing you or just generally giving you a hard time, it means they like you, thats the way the trades are.  If you get all defensive and take a huge offense to the stuff they say to you, you will only get it worse.  When the guys dont talk to you at all, then id be nervous.As mark said, alot of people think you are there to steal there job.  The only thing i can say to guys that think like that is, if you worth worth anything, you wouldnt be worrying about me stealing your job.I use to try and impart knowledge on some of the knuckleheads i work with, now, i just keep my mouth shut.  After a journeyman pilebutt for 29 years tryed to convice me all cutting tips take 7psi acetylene and 60psi oxygen, i stopped wasting my time.  Ive also had guys tell me that steel will melt at 1800 degrees.  I tryed to tell them it oxidizes in that area, but it doesnt melt.my point is, let it roll off your back, dish some of it back out, go to work to collect your check, go home andDont let stuff go to blows, ive seen it happen, and its not worth losing your job over.And to the guy that had his tools touched, that is worth going to blows over, after work, outside the shop.  No one touches my tools...
Reply:It will always be like that.  When I was 18, I could outweld the majority of journeymen I worked with...but they always seemed to get the good work, and it was hard for me to get a chance to prove myself. You just have to be patient.  There will be occasional jobs that they throw you way that they are not sure you can handle, but they need done.  Doing those jobs with success gains their trust in your abilities.  The trust grows and turns into respect.As for helping and giving tips:  If they don't listen at all, don't share tips.  Do your work and learn from theirs.  If you do well on your own, they will eventually begin to ask about your techniques.In short, keep on going and don't let it get you down.  It's nothing you can change overnight anyway.
Reply:My welding career started 3 mos before I turned 16. The company I worked for built portable lighting trailers and at that time didn't have any problems with a 15 year old welding. I passed their tests (GMAW Filet Weld, CO2) and was actually one of the few in there that could weld a Vertical up 7018 bead without it looking like something a chicken did.Some people there were rude some were not. I worked there part time of an on through high schoo. I graduated at 17 and went into the Navy. There most everyone was young so it was not an issue.I got honorably discharged from the Navy at the age of 23 . By that time I had welded nuclear and non-nuclear power plant componenent on submarines, been in charge of training, calibration, welder qualifications, and controlled materials, tested and qualified as a Controlled Material Petty Officer and Shop Quality Assurance Inspector, spent I don't know how many 30 to 36 hour shifts awake and welding, blah blah blah...When I went to my 1st job at a fabricator in Memphis that built pressure vessels and piping I was only allowed to test for carbon steel stick, even though they had seen my resume and copies of my evaluations from the Navy. After a few weeks some of the guys offered to show me how to tig weld . When they found that I was proficient, some treated me a little different. When I explained that most of the welds I had done in the Navy required a mirror, they scoffed but chose not to setup a pipe or two to see what THEY had. My next job welding was with a boiler contractor in Northeast Alabama. The full time employess at the shop were great. I tested in a simulator that I hav never seen before and went to work for them.  By 24 I was the field QC representative on boiler outages for BLRB in the paper industry.  There was a great deal of resentment and the like including threats and some physical things that were stopped.I tried to do what was right by my employer and show respect to the people that had been in the industry longer than I . I accepted advice and was careful where I gave it. Some of the older guys were hesitant to give any information on "How to" when I asked them. Maybe I seemed like a kid asking too many questions. I decided back then that if anybody asked me how to, I would help them out.Eventually it will work out. Do your job the best you can, do whats right by your employer, respect other people regardless of their skills or experience, listen to what everyone tells you about how to do something (regardless of their age), check out what you were told for yourself, and do it the way that works best for you .I am 44 now and I think the younger people sometimes doubt my skills. That too canbe a mistake that younger person makes. Though I did many things at an early age, I count the overall time in the trade as the best experience. Both as a welder and inspector.Another intersting thing I experienced was getting into the International Brotherhood of Bolermakers at the age of 40. I went in as a 1st year apprentice. Needless to say there were some issues I had with a 25 year old kid trying to tell me I am working too fast or got back to work to sson after break. Don't change your work ethics for people that think that work does not involve work!Last edited by gaustin; 06-23-2008 at 09:16 AM.Reason: Added comment about boilermaking.Have a nice dayhttp://www.weldingdata.com/
Reply:Carpentry is the same way.  There are a lot of old dogs who like to bark.  And that's OK.  At the end of the day most of the guys I worked with respected me because I took a lot of pride in my work and shook off most of the smart *** remarks tossed my way.  If you can't deal with a certain amount of bull$hit you'll never make it.I didn't give the **** back.  That's bad advice.  Carry yourself with a certain amount of self respect and leave the **** kicking to the old cranks.  The bottom line is most of those guys are your superiors whether you like it or not.  Most can burn you with your boss if they want to.  You don't give it back they don't expect it and they're not sure what to do.  If you do give it back, make sure you consider the context carefully, and do it with a smile in your face.  Turn it into something genuinely funny.  It also puts you in a good position to ask a favor if you really really get stuck.  Like if some morning your alarm clock doesn't wake you up.  I don't care how long you've been working, it always happens once.If it helps, go to work, and turn your mind completely to your work.  Focus on nothing else.  If you're doing something you love, this doesn't even seem so hard.And the last day I worked we stopped working for a 3 hour lunch a la all of my coworkers and my boss.  I didn't expect it, didn't even feel it was owed me, but I know that the people there didn't do it because they disrespected me or my work.I later came to find out that a few of the guys in the shop were actually scared of me after a while of not reacting, figuring that I was some kind of quiet serial killer type.    :Last edited by CDG; 06-23-2008 at 03:01 PM.
Reply:When i was in my early 20s i worked my way through college in a car restoration shop (packards, duesenbergs, hemi mopars, BB corvettes, etc)  My friend Chuck and i were kinda the shop grunts and were constantly harassed by the more experienced guys,  Our boss was happy with our work and gave us raises without us asking....longs story short...I am now a doctor, Chuck owns the shop and many of the same guys are working for him )still complaining too).  The wheel is round....do your best and it pays off.
Reply:I guess there is no reason for me to reply, DSW and IRONMAN covered it. I would add, however, don't give back as good as you get. That only puts you in deeper. As an apprentice, you have to do what a journeyman says anyway. If you screw it up, and the foreman tears into you, you can always say "I was doing what I was told". One journeyman made me rake rocks all morning. I thought to myself "I'm getting paid all this money to do this?". When the foreman asked me what I was doing, I said" what I was told". It turned out that I got along good with the journeyman and he taught me alot over the next year. He's been an Ironworker for over 30 years and had alot of information that I wanted.
Reply:It's nothing new. I basically grew up on the back of an oilfield welding truck and the rule there is mess with the kids. After ten years of that and high school graduation I went into the work force. I didn't have too much trouble as I had already seen it all and they figured it out real quick. Kinda hard to mess with the worm when the worm knows more worm tricks than you do, lol. You are always going to meet up with a$$holes and know-it-alls in this business and find that many are really resistant to change. Those I ignore as they aren't worth the heartburn. Keep in mind you have 3 years in the business and some of these guys may have 30 or more. I'm not a harda$$, very easy to get along with and truly enjoy sharing what I have managed to learn as well as continuing to learn. I don't give away respect you have to earn it. It has always been that way. Can you teach me anything about the particular type of welding I do? Probably not. Can I teach you anything about it? Absolutely. Can you impress me with your welding? Nope. I've seen the work of thousands of welders at this point and the only thing I really notice is how bad some of it is. Want to get along with them? Take your lumps as we all have, pay attention, always work to improve your skills, admit your mistakes, and bust butt so nobody has to take up your slack. You will get that respect eventually.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Like I always say, with people like that it's mind over matter.I don't mind and they don't matter.Let your work and knowledge speak for you.Someone will notice.pro-level dumpster diver                                     Hobart 125EZ
Reply:let me clarify, when someone is giving you a hard time, you dont tell them to f**k off.  Just joke around back with them, or just keep quiet and let it roll.  Getting angry or taking offense will only make things worse.  Dont start pissing matches either, things escalate quickly and get ugly, ive seen it happen alot.Anyways, its unfortunate that people treat the new guy like crap.  Being that work is really slow in my area i took a job at a local fab shop.  They do a little bit of everything, and they also have a water jet machine, which is way cool.  I was asked to come to work for them and the guys are insanely cool.  All younger guys, into different kinds of toys, and doing all around metal work.  We got to talking about how we all got into metal working and that i had been working in structural doing mostly fluxcore.  He was happy to be around a guy who knew fluxcore, and was excited that i could show him some stuff about running vertical and overhead.  Its nice to go somewhere and have the people who run the show not have the typical "your just a kid, you dont know s**t"  Nobody knows it all, if they tell you they do, theyre full of it.Sony, sounds like you have the right attitude, keep it up and you will be fine.
Reply:Well i guess we can all sympathize with you, most of us have been through the same situation. I'm with the last guy if someone gives you s#@t turn round and dish it straight back.I'm 27 been self employed since i finished my apprenticeship, mostly contracting to other firms we could be on site and someone would say to another tradesman i was working with "oh just get the boy to do" that used to piss me off but i never let it get to me,The nuclear work sounds interesting!! i wish we had a plant here in New Zealand the lesbian hippy's that run this country are so scared of this evil technology they would rather risk the country's hydro lakes run dry!! how crazy
Reply:too true bro
Reply:Well, as many seem to think, I must have came off like I claim to be the best of the best?  I know I'm not the best, and won't ever claim to be.Annnyways Thanks for all the kind words, they will definitely help keep my chin up.  And, as many have stated, I'm starting to think that this is just a way of showing that they like me... at least thats what I'm hoping!
Reply:Good, glad we got that cleared up. Now go get us that standard adjustable wrench like we asked you to. Not this silly metric one. We need one in inches, not mm. If you'd just look harder you'll find it. I'm sure I saw it yesterday. When you get done with that we need the steel strecher and the sky hook, the one with the yellow handle.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWGood, glad we got that cleared up. Now go get us that standard adjustable wrench like we asked you to. Not this silly metric one. We need one in inches, not mm. If you'd just look harder you'll find it. I'm sure I saw it yesterday. When you get done with that we need the steel strecher and the sky hook, the one with the yellow handle.You know, I skimmed thru this thread, 99% of this crap creates a safety hazard, I did work in a shop for a short period, made it crystal clear, wasn't joining in, from either end, never had a problem.   You wanna play games, go join a friggin' frat.   I suppose there were a couple attempts made, but nobody ever made the same mistake twice.   Not where I was concerned, anyway.
Reply:haha sure how so?Last edited by drivethruboy54; 06-25-2008 at 11:19 PM.
Reply:We're less than a day's drive apart, you are more than welcome to try me, and report back here.Just out of curiosity, SF Bay area where???????    I have more than a passing familiarity with your area ......Last edited by mark8310; 06-25-2008 at 11:43 PM.
Reply:I'm just a couple weeks on the job.  Now I'm sidelined by an infection in my foot...I think I'll have a job to go back to tomorrow, because I work hard, and do whatever I'm told.  I've done more pipe fitting in the last week than welding, but I don't care because it's new to me and it still pays the same.  I got told the other day to go find a can of spray 'arc-start'...I just laughed and said if I stuck one more rod, I might just do that...On another occasion I was welding some 4" carbon pipe for a steam line.  The foreman came over and re-assigned me to do some structural welding.  I didn't complain or whine, I just did what I was told.  Later, I casually asked why he moved me.  Turns out the job was bottlenecked because of that steam line, and he put the fastest, most experienced guy on finishing the welds I started.  It had nothing to do with the quality of my work.  And I'm the first one to admit that I'm not the best welder on this crew or anywhere else; not by a longshot.  The moral is don't take things personally.  It's business...Some of the younger guys on the crew are always catching crap...In my opinion, it's because they're always bragging, and failing to follow through.  A couple are always running their mouths instead of working, and the worst part is that they're usually distracting someone else from working at the same time.  They're standing permanent firewatch now...and they still haven't figured out that the reason all they do is firewatch is because that's all the foreman thinks they're good for...They've been given the friendly advice on how to fix the problem, and some blunt constructive criticism(not by me),  but it just hasn't sunk in...To add my advice to the pile already here...Keep your head down, work steadily all day long.  Do what you're told, even if it doesn't make sense at first.  When you don't have anything to do, ask the foreman for more work.  Don't stand around and wait for someone to notice that you're idle.If you don't know or don't understand what you're supposed to do, ask.  Always.  Keep asking questions until you're sure you've got a clear picture of what to do.  Questions at the start are always faster than reworking something that's been done incorrectly.Work on telling the difference between guys who are giving you a hard time, and those who are truly insulting you.  If you feel insulted, is there a good reason for it?  Did you screw up?  Be honest with yourself.  If not, have a polite word in private with the other person.  If that doesn't resolve the issue, go to the foreman and tell him you're walkin' and why.  I'll second the comment that nobody should be touching your tools without your permission.  If that's going on, leave'm at home and borrow from the foreman or company.  When he asks why, tell him.  If the foreman gives you any crap, put on your walkin' shoes...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWGood, glad we got that cleared up. Now go get us that standard adjustable wrench like we asked you to. Not this silly metric one. We need one in inches, not mm. If you'd just look harder you'll find it. I'm sure I saw it yesterday. When you get done with that we need the steel strecher and the sky hook, the one with the yellow handle.
Reply:We got the bosses 16 year old nephew with the standard vs metric adjustable one. He brought over the wrench and we told him to take it back and bring us the standard one instead of the metric and showed him the MM marking on th handle. Kid goes back to the truck and 10 min later comes back and says he can't find it. send hime back to look some more telling hime we know ones in the truck. 10 mins later he's back saying he can only find the metric one. Boss tells me to take the wrench and go get the right one. I wander oner to the truck and walk back and show the kid the 12" mark on the handle and say it must have been there all along he just wasn't looking. Kid spent all of lunch pulling every tool out of the truck trying to find where I had hidden the metric wrench, while we all sat and tried not to die laughing. We took pitty on the kid when we got back to the shop and showed him if he turned the wrench over it was marked in inches on one side and metric on the other. Boy was he pissed, took it all in good fun however.
Reply:Originally Posted by mark8310We're less than a day's drive apart, you are more than welcome to try me, and report back here.Just out of curiosity, SF Bay area where???????    I have more than a passing familiarity with your area ......
Reply:Originally Posted by DSW...When you get done with that we need the steel strecher and the sky hook...
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWWe got the bosses 16 year old nephew with the standard vs metric adjustable one. He brought over the wrench and we told him to take it back and bring us the standard one instead of the metric and showed him the MM marking on th handle. Kid goes back to the truck and 10 min later comes back and says he can't find it. send hime back to look some more telling hime we know ones in the truck. 10 mins later he's back saying he can only find the metric one. Boss tells me to take the wrench and go get the right one. I wander oner to the truck and walk back and show the kid the 12" mark on the handle and say it must have been there all along he just wasn't looking. Kid spent all of lunch pulling every tool out of the truck trying to find where I had hidden the metric wrench, while we all sat and tried not to die laughing. We took pitty on the kid when we got back to the shop and showed him if he turned the wrench over it was marked in inches on one side and metric on the other. Boy was he pissed, took it all in good fun however.
Reply:Originally Posted by 59halfstepWe had an old timer in a  GM factory setting that would get so hot about the lack of common sense that our college summer help would have he would "play" them hard.  He took this one kid and told him that they were going to "steam clean" the wooden four by four floor in the machine bay.  He gives the kid a five gallon pail and sends him off to the tool crib with a requisition for five gallons of steam.  Well he gets to the crib and the guy there knows of the joke and sends him to the next one cause he is out of steam.  He calls he next crib and lets them know what to expect.  We had 14 tool cribs in that factory and one oil storage out a quarter mile across the parking lot.  Well he went swinging that five gallon pail from one to the next and finally at the last they send him out to oil storage.  At oil storage the guy tells him " Kid, don't you know that they are fu***ng with you.  I can't give you 5 gallons of steam in a bucket without a lid on it."  He came back all pissed that he was not given a lid.  I still smile on that one.  I believe ragging on new people is a rite of passage and it lets you know meddle of the person.  Humor is a large part of life and how one reacts to it is important thing to know in your work mate.  Cruelty and safety is a very different matter and again common sense should keep the old timers from crossing that line.Charlie
Reply:I understand. Too bad how some people feel better about themselves by putting down others.I was a shop foreman, and on the FIRST day a new employee showed up I would tell them that this is not like any other shop they worked in.We treat each other with respect and there is no !#@$you etc.,. I told them we spend many hours of  our lives in the shop and we want it to be like a home-pleasant ,clean and safe to be in. This speach always made a big impression. I had very few problems between employes. i think it is partly because they had never been treated with respect. I always told them to take lunch when they needed to, not like ringing a bell for a rat.It worked very well. i was forman for 11 years.
Reply:What always  bothers me is that some guys who have been welding 30+ years still lay crappy beads. Then i have to come in and start carbon arcing thier welds out clean up the joint and lay an acceptable one in and they make twice as much money as me but i'm stuck repairing thier bird do do --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumWhat always  bothers me is that some guys who have been welding 30+ years still lay crappy beads. Then i have to come in and start carbon arcing thier welds out clean up the joint and lay an acceptable one in and they make twice as much money as me but i'm stuck repairing thier bird do do
Reply:On more than one occassion I have sent a upitty apprentice to go get a a 2 ton "henway" out of the gang box only for said apprenti to find out there is no such thing as a 2 ton henway. There is a difference between good natured razing and full out bullying and harrassment. I won't tolerate any JIW who treats an apprentice like a punk. The apprentices are there to work NOT be abused. I am trying to "modernize" the ironworker attitude. If we foster an enviorment of watch your back and mistrust then we are doomed to failure on and off the job. All this old timer BS about it was this way when I started and that way when I broke in crap is just tha...crap. who cares if it was a crap enviorment and you did things the hard way this is the future and we are here to act like gentlemen and WORK like gentlemen whenever possible.'Mike
Reply:Based on many years of observation it seems to me that if they mess with you it's because they like you. If they don't like you they don't even talk to you. I think it is a right of passage. I've seen people do things that could result in someone being injured or worse, but fortunately only a couple of times. As pros it's our job at that point to step in and stop it before it happens. I even have to admit that I, on occasion, mess with my business partners head a little (we have known each other 45 years or so). He just has to be shown that he doesn't know as much about welding as he thinks he does, and then he starts to pay attention again. It wouldn't be so much fun if he wasn't such an easy target, lmao. The benefit has been the huge improvement in his welding skills over the last year.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:That is a process of Organization culture alignment with control conflict...Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:Originally Posted by Go1lumWhat always  bothers me is that some guys who have been welding 30+ years still lay crappy beads. Then i have to come in and start carbon arcing thier welds out clean up the joint and lay an acceptable one in and they make twice as much money as me but i'm stuck repairing thier bird do do
Reply:what about that bucket of steam that I ask you to get...did you get the right color...and make sure you don't spill any when you go try to bore it in the boss's radiator!!! in his office!! IN front of him!!!Jonesy