i need anchors that are better than Tapcons

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let me know what you guys are using for securing handrail...it seems that i snap off atleast 1 anchor per job and when that happens its there....no getting it out....and i only use 1/4 inch tapcons installed with a 5/16 socket and 1/4 inch drive rachet....any info would be great thanks...AWS CWI/CWEASNT NDT Level 2 PT/MTAWS Certified Welder(aerospace)
Reply:WOW, 1/4" tapcons for handrails?I don't know what the industry standard is but that seems kinda weak to me.Are you drilling the holes deep enough? If the tapcon bottoms out in the hole then it will break off every time.Tim Beeker.
Reply:For handrails I usually use 3/8" anchors.  I agree with tnjind 1/4" would be on the weak side in my opinion.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:When installing into concrete I only use a minimum of 3/8" x 3" wedge anchors and drill plenty deep enough to push the anchor down if it somehow gets messed up and needs to be replaced.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:I use 3/8"  wedge anchors.  I don't care for sleeve anchors.  I use 2-1/4" depth, typically.  However, lengh varies with application.  I am assuming you are to mounting onto ground and not a wall.  For stabilizing a rail along the wall I use the "hammer-in" anchors, usually.  Again application dictate actual fastener.
Reply:i have never had 1/4 inch tapcons break because of too much weight on the handrail...the problem lies in threading the tapcon into the brick...most of the rails i install are in brick porches...the holes are always atleast an inch deeper than needed...and i clean the holes out the best i can...my problem is when they are treaded in you have to keep backing them out when you hit a bidding point....threaded concrete anchors are out of the question because of the space limitations of the brick... i installed some yesterday and snapped one off and didnt think i was putting that much force behind it...we used some 5/16 inch tapcons for some wall mounted rail into concrete block and used an electric impact to install them ...never broke one...but they looked different ...the tapcons that keep breaking have a 5/16 hex head....these had a flat head like a round headed machine screw with a T45 torx bit to install...anyone ever used nail in style concrete anchors in brick to install rail?? im just looking for an alternative to Tapcons...thanks for the replies guys...AWS CWI/CWEASNT NDT Level 2 PT/MTAWS Certified Welder(aerospace)
Reply:That is not the proper application of a Tapcon.  Though it does work and I have seen it done.  I would hate to have any failure and then have to explain improper fastener usuage.  I have never seen one break, though I have replace sever rails where tapcons were used and the had rusted down to 1/8 " at the at the contact area.  ...just a matter of time.I use 2-1/4" wedge anchors because they can be used in brick with minimal thread stickout when tightened.  They do sell a structural screw that can be threaded into brick and concrete.  I used them once work well, though the still bind, they will not break. Lag bolt with a lag sheild work also,  Though too many steps to get the final install.
Reply:We still haven't found an acceptable filler to braze steel to brick yet???!! What is this world coming to?? I have had mixed results with different anchors, I like the redhead style HD wedge ancors like the other guys. Not as brittle as Tapcons. As for the nail in sheilds, they can never be tightened, and if they are loose, they are a pain in the neck to remove, as the set pin is as hard as hard gets, and the combo of that and a lead shield make it almost impossible for drilling it out. But they do work pretty well; I just would like to be able to tighten something holding a railing down.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Funny you say Braze steel to brick--Jokingly.  I replace a rail once.  The rail was cored into the concrete and lead poured around. Absolutely no rust on a 50 year old pipe rail.  very stable too.
Reply:Originally Posted by redcoupe I need anchors that are better than Tapcons
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepTapwelder - What is a proper application of a Tapcon?
Reply:http://www.concretescrews.com/
Reply:Years ago when I used to install handrail we used a... I guess you'd call it a rubber plug 'bout 1 1/2" long and 5/8" diameter with a nut moulded in the bottom. You'd drill the hole 5/8", put the bolt thru the baseplate and into the rubber plug and place the whole thing into the hole you drilled in the block. The advantage is that even if the block broke out from the back the anchor would still hold as it would mushroom out. I thought they were called rawl plugs but doing a search they weren't, damn I can't remember the name....Mike
Reply:I blow out to the bottom of the drilled hole with needle tip blow gun that will reach the bottom of the hole. I put rubbing alcohol into the hole with a sqeeze bottle to act as a lubricant. Use a cordless drill with an extension to put the screws in, or at least a long wobble drive extension between the socket and the rachet. Use both hands to stabilize the rachet. With no extension it is easy (unavoidable) to put a lot of shear load on the fastener in addition to the torsion load that you need to screw it in.  The cordless drill is a better choice because the screw sees only one torsion (fatigue) cycle.  The rachet puts on as many fatigue cycles (both torsion and shear) as the rachet is swung, it adds up to a lot.
Reply:Tapwelder, thanks for the link.Here's what it reads in part:"Reasons to use self-tapping concrete screwsSuperior corrosion resistance.  Easy to use.  Wide range of selection.  Can be removed without disturbing the base material." I guess from my own experience, I'm just not very impressed with the screws.Although the manufacturer seems sincere enough about their product, the site doesn't claim superior  holding power among "reasons to use."Mrmikey - I know the rubber anchors you're talking about. I never thought of using them in concrete, but I bet they'd hold well. I'll look at the shop assortment and get the name; maybe it's Hatnut?Last edited by denrep; 08-18-2008 at 09:39 AM.
Reply:Mrmikey - I know the rubber anchors you're talking about. I never thought of using them in concrete, but I bet they'd hold well. I'll look at the shop assortment and get the name; maybe it's Hatnut?
Reply:That's it Sandy, well-nut.I don't know where I came up with Hatnut.Last edited by denrep; 08-19-2008 at 07:09 AM.
Reply:If I can do it, I like to core out a hole, put the rail in and pour hot lead. Thats how an old timer showed me to do it, will last longer than the steps. Other than that I like Red Head wedge anchors, or Hilti.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Double expansion anchors & bolts. We use them to hold galvanized building attachments that holds phone cables  from the pole to a block or concrete building.
Reply:RedHead most definitely. Use to install stuff in Cali. that had to be earthquake safe with those.Miller Thunderbolt 225Millermatic 130 XPLincoln HD 100 Forney C-5bt Arc welderPlasma Cutter Gianteach Cut40ACent Machinery Bandsaw Cent Machinery 16Speed Drill PressChicago Electric 130amp tig/90 ArcHobart 190 Mig spoolgun ready
Reply:I like sleeve anchors for brick.I find that wedge anchors are fine for concrete, but when you have to pound something into brick, you are asking for trouble. Brick will crack and break.Wedge anchors can be delicately tightened just enough, and they grip really well in brick.The other option is an epoxy system. The guns are kinda pricy, but the stuff works really well, with no pounding, no danger of breaking bricks, natural stone, or concrete blocks or tile.
Reply:Wedge anchors can be delicately tightened just enough, and they grip really well in brick
Reply:I've had somewhat good luck with sleeve anchors as well. I think the advantage of them is that you can keep on tightening the nut until it grabs, all you'll do is keep pulling the wedge into the sleeve.Wedge anchors are, IMHO, good for concrete, won't work in block for s**t....Mike