Tungston Sharpening

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I have been tig welding for ten plus years on and off.  I own a general fab shop and maybe bet 1 tig job a month But when I do theirs usually 8+ hours of tig welding involved.    Are the commercial tungsten grinders worth the price?   They look spiffy and you cant have enough tools but are they really that much of a time saver and process improver?I have gotten pretty darn good at sharpening them on the wheel but I have gone through a couple of sets of gloves mastering that skill.
Reply:Dualie,It's really a matter of how much it's worth to you.I have 2 of the Pirhana II grinders, with diamond wheels.  Pretty darned expensive.I also have 10 welders that have to sharpen their tungstens every day.Step one, go to the grinding wheel, score the old tip off, and break it.Step two, to the belt sander and rough in the tip.Step three, to the diamond grinder, and finish the tip.All total, for 20/30 tungstens, less than 1/2 an hour.But that's in a production weld shop, where the time savings is worth the cost of the $200.00 wheels.For 1 job a month, you have to look at the time required to sharpen the tungstens vs. the cost of the grinder, and make your decision from there.Regards, KbnitI r 2 a perfessional
Reply:Do you find it improves teh quality of the arc?  my hand sharpened tungsens are pretty good but some times i get in a hurry and they get a little off center.
Reply:Dualie,No matter how good you are, and no matter how long you've been sharpening tungsten, you can't beat  a diamond ground electrode off a diamond sharpener.  Smooth as a newborn baby's bottom...Yes, I weld at the race shop with tungstens hand ground on an AlO2 wheel, and I get good arc starting and good life out of them. It's your shop, if you can justify it, go to diamond ground tungstens, I highly reccomend it.  The repeatability of the weldments is something you won't believe.  The arc control is great.  There is no meandering of the arc.  But if the cost/benefit doesn't work out, stick with the AlO2 wheels, and grind by hand.  Works for a whole lot of welders.Best regards, KbnitI r 2 a perfessional
Reply:FWIW: Oh boy, here I go again. Self taught hobby guy.  Originally Posted by DualieI've gotten pretty darn good at sharpening them on the wheel but I have gone through a couple of sets of gloves mastering that skill.
Reply:Ok well I think I have talked myself into a tungsten grinder.   what the heck its only money.   Any preferences?  are the $200-300 units worth a crap or should I just go for the big dawg piranha II?  It would go well with my 120 ton piranha punch.
Reply:G'Day Dualie,Aluminium oxide grinding wheels are ideal for sharpening tungstens. The "normal" types do OK in finer grades, even belt sanders as mentioned before...TIP: keep a small tin of water handy to constantly cool the tungsten. A good reason not to wear gloves.....but far more important - Don't use gloves near any bench grinder anyhow ! You can't beat a diamond wheel if you need to do plenty but beware breathing in the fine dust produced if using for prolonged periods, ie sharpening a dozen or more...you tend to get carried away with a diamond wheel.It's interesting to experiment with various tungsten angles at the same DCEN current setting and see the effects of the arc charteristics, eg: intensity / width etc, and to the finished weld. Might find a particular angle that suits you more than another.Cheers
Reply:IMO, there should be no discernable difference between hand ground and diamond ground for manual operations.  Where it becomes critical is when you get into automated or orbital welding applications where repeatability is of paramount concern, as you're using a fixed set of parameters.
Reply:SupeAgree with your comments - little difference between hand ground and machine ground for manual operations, however the angle of the grind does alter arc characteristics regardless of grind method.This is even more pronounced on orbital applications on thinner materials around 1mm WT at the lower end of the typical current range for orbital equipment.IME I find the difference in penetration achieved on 2.4mm WT SS or DSS pipe autogenously welded in a square edged configuration using paste to achieve full a thickness weld with 1 pass is quite variable dependent on tungsten angle.Cheers... would like to chat more about orbital applications, it's a hobby of mine.
Reply:Disclaimer: I am not a welder by any stretch, just a novice with a MIG and don't do TIG (yet).  I am sorry if I am wasting anyone's time because I can't comment on the original question "Are the commercial tungsten grinders worth the price?"  But maybe what I have observed might be helpful.I watched a fellow sharpen short lengths of tungsten quickly and easily on a grinding wheel, without any risk of injury to his fingers or damage to his gloves.  And the points that resulted were about as perfect as reasonably possible without highly specialized equipment.He chucks the rod into a cordless drill and stands behind a pedestal grinder that has the cover removed  (yeah, we know removing the guard is a nono).  He squeezes the trigger on the drill then touches the tip of the rod to the top of the wheel .  Zing!  In mere seconds he has a dart-sharp point on the tungsten.I suppose if one has a problem with removing the guard then you might stand beside the grinder and hold the drill above it with the rod pointing down and just touch the wheel for a few seconds.  A little creativity is always helpful.  -MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieOk well I think I have talked myself into a tungsten grinder.   what the heck its only money.   Any preferences?  are the $200-300 units worth a crap or should I just go for the big dawg piranha II?  It would go well with my 120 ton piranha punch.
Reply:Originally Posted by chrispc66SupeAgree with your comments - little difference between hand ground and machine ground for manual operations, however the angle of the grind does alter arc characteristics regardless of grind method.This is even more pronounced on orbital applications on thinner materials around 1mm WT at the lower end of the typical current range for orbital equipment.IME I find the difference in penetration achieved on 2.4mm WT SS or DSS pipe autogenously welded in a square edged configuration using paste to achieve full a thickness weld with 1 pass is quite variable dependent on tungsten angle.Cheers... would like to chat more about orbital applications, it's a hobby of mine.
Reply:Originally Posted by DualieOk well I think I have talked myself into a tungsten grinder.   what the heck its only money.   Any preferences?  are the $200-300 units worth a crap or should I just go for the big dawg piranha II?  It would go well with my 120 ton piranha punch.
Reply:Originally Posted by CarmenElectrodeThat said, keep in mind that the Piranha 2 only preps up to 3/32" diameter tungsten... so to get the full range you need to pony up $1500 plus.
Reply:I have been thinking about getting one of those hand grinders with a diamond wheel.  I sharpen now with a cordless drill on the bench grinder.  Sometimes I go through 30 or so in a day, but I sharpen them all at once, so 20 minutes or so are used.  I don't find much difference in the angle.  I even did a small test.  With my limited skill it doesn't seem to matter.  Looking at trying one out.  I don't know anyone aroundme that has one I could try before buying.  $300 is the limit, I bet I could find one that does 1/8".  This isn't precision welding, just average joe stuff.David Edit, here is a link to one that will do 1/8".http://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?ma...roducts_id=127Last edited by David R; 09-11-2008 at 06:39 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverSheesh, here I go again (again).  With all due respect, I'd tie my tungstens to my trailer hitch and drag them to class to sharpen them before I'd pay that kind of money to grind a tungsten that I'm going to dip in the puddle anyway. If a sharpener can't handle the 1/32" difference between 3/32" and 1/8" without a $1200 difference, something is wrong. For $300, it had better handle any tungsten my Syncrowave 250 will handle. Let me put this in perspective. $1500 (plus), that's more than half the price of a new Syncrowave 250 and almost half the price of a new Dynasty 200DX ready to weld. This RANT refers to manual welding only. Like I said above, rub it on something, make a point, truncate, weld, dip in puddle, repeat. I suppose an apology is in order, but this is where a hobby guy draws the line.
Reply:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwGqINB5IQM[/ame]http://www.aloumac.ca/
Reply:Originally Posted by CarmenElectrodeNo apology needed...
Reply:No worries Craig.   I ended up ordering a stilo tig sharpening pen thing.   I will give that a shot and see how I like that.    95% of my tig welding is done with a 3/32" tungsten so the piranha would work fine but I think I will spend the extra coin on something else.MY 1/4" 12' Atlantic shear needs the blades re-ground all 4 sides are done for.And I feel your pain with the testing pains.    When NR-232 came in to vouge here in CA for seismic welding app's I had a hell of a time getting the hang of that wire.   I'm still not the best with it but I do have 3G papers.   heck that might be the topic of my next post.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:After all this, I am going to get the tungsten sharpener in the link I posted earlier.I will let you know how it works.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RSometimes I go through 30 or so in a day, but I sharpen them all at once, so 20 minutes or so are used.David
Reply:I looked at those tungsten grinders once... bought another car instead!Not the best analagy but i used to do a LOT of archery as a kid (shot for the county team) and hitting your bracer with the string always ruins the shot. One day i stopped wearing a bracer, got a black/blue/purple arm, even a little claret but i very quickly learnt NOT to hit my arm with the bowstring. Got a lot better from that bit of S&MTime is money so in a large shop with several welders they can pay for themselves relatively quickly but for a one man outfit/smallish shop/hobby... LOTS of other tools first with regards to usefulness/profitability IMO
Reply:I was always anal retentive about my tungsten, then I read the thread on sharpening tungstens, and I have hardly sharpened anything lately. 200A wide open doesn't care much about sharp or dull, the only thing that matters is I still insist on covering up the tungsten with aluminum. I dunno, it just happens!!!! I wonder aloud if there is a diamond faced wheel we could buy to install on a bench grinder to replace a standard wheel. Now, that i would possibly justify spending a few bucks on.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:rojodiablo, , thats wy i use a diamond wheel intended for ceramic tile--it goes lots fastrer when youre doing 15  or 20 pieces ..
Reply:CarmenElectrode,  I went to purchase a sharpie, the deluxe model.  The order form said to put the discount code here.  I don't have one......Can ya help?David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.how about moding a drill doctor or just getting a grinding wheel for one?http://www.drilldoctor.com/product.asp?specific=131Archer
Reply:drill doctor says it will sharpen 118 and 135(?) degree drills,  can  it  be set for the angles youd want in a tungsten elelctrode...?
Reply:I use a drill doctor today.  Th fine finish is nice but they are hollow ground because the wheel is about an inch or two. It was hard to make a long point.  I have a good pile of tungsten just waiting.....David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.