Note To Any Industrial Suppliers

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I posted this on another thread, but with the economy like it is, maybe it deserves its own thread. I am a hobby business welder and mostly self-taught. I'm not trying to start an argument, but more to offer a perspective you may need to hear. I would buy a lot more tools, wire, components, etc. from you instead of the Blue and Orange boxes, but I don't always know exactly what I want. So I like to be able to stand and look, measure and figure which parts go with what to do my project. And I like to know the prices before I checkout. Since I can't go behind the counter to "shop", and the prices are always some mystery that seems to change day to day, I end up spending thousands of dollars a year elsewhere. I have been in the retail business and believe me I completely understand that you can't have people strolling around in your bins. I also know that prices vary by the size of the order/customer, if you deliver or not, is it credit or cash, etc. I don't know the answer, but I think you are missing a lot of precious dollars right now. I know you can put a good mark on sales to people like me and I would still be willing to buy from you because you have better quality and good advice. I just don't like to show my ignorance in asking a lot of questions, not knowing the proper nomenclature or part numbers, etc. Has anyone figured out a business model that works for guys like me (other than Blue and Orange)?Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:I have always found it funny that I have never been to a LWS that has had the prices marked on all or almsot all of their items. I am not sure if thats because most of them deal more with business and industry more than Bob consumer but it is rather odd.
Reply:And Massachusetts has a law that if consumers are allowed to access the product, it must be priced. When I was VP of a 240 store retail chain, we got pinched often for this infraction in Massachusetts.I shop at a place called New Bedford Welding Supply..............Just about the best shopping experience bar none!  Just about everything is available for a "feel". the only stuff behind the counter is consumables and a few rare birds.Roy BDartmouth, Mahttp://www.rvbprecision.comMM 185 MIGDiversion 165Purox W200 O/AGrizzly 9957 MillGrizzly 4030 Metal Band SawGrizzly 1050 Knife Belt SanderJet 1236 Metal LatheCM 14" Metal Band SawTP Blast Cabinet
Reply:Not sure how their pricing works in those shops!Ours here is WSI = welder services Inc.I would call them, get a price from the guy on the phone, I would make sure that I get the parts numbers, prices and the guy's name because if its the next day by the time I can make it over there for the stuff, the price might change dramatically!I asked them once why that is, and the manager told me that their pricing is controlled by the head office, and that he himself wasn't even sure how it worked.But the manager is willing to honor the quoted prices, as long as you have all the right info!Ken.Last edited by Ken Dennis; 01-22-2009 at 02:18 PM.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:as a Hobbist dealing with some of this stuff can be tuff. My local metal supply place, when you just buy one lenght of angle or square tube, they can treat you like you just walked in and took a crap on their floor, cause you didn't buy a tractor trailer flat bed worth. No respect I tell ya.
Reply:Well said wb4rt,I like to go to the professional supply houses, doesn't matter if it is welding, construction, electrical or whatever, but only if I know exactly what I want. Some of them act as if you are interferring with their day if you don't at least know the local lingo and are a member of the club.Some places could get more business from the national box stores if they wouldn't turn people away.Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:The price at my LWS depends on who takes my order.
Reply:Yes but there are two sides to every story as they say. I have a small welding supply, repair, service business. I have to fight tooth and nail to get good discounts from manufacturers, yet the "chains" well they call the shots. Problem is there sales staff dont know how to answer any questions, as they dont have the knowledge, and will sell you whatever they think you are interested in, just to make a sale. I pride myself in selling quality equipment at a fair price, admittedly maybe not as cheap on some items as the chains, but they have better buying power. I do have a lot of loyal customers who shop with me regularly as they know I offer good old fashioned service and backup in a friendly atmosphere with someone that will steer them in the right direction of a product which will suit there needs. I fix the equipment as well so I know what problems they may have, and I know not what to buy or stock in my shop.There are real pain in the a$$ customers as well, they want to buy a product and will waste your time for a half hour or so and walk out thinking that the product is too expensive, or maybe they can get it cheaper elsewhere,  then travel around to other shops wasting his own time and other peoples just to save $10 on a product. But in fact it has cost him a lot more than that with all the traveling around. Then there are the people who ring to get a price, most are genuine but some are just playing one against the other. If I give a price to someone thats it, no more bargaining, go elsewhere and barter. Then there are the guys that want me to have a look at there welder or regulator and give them a price to fix it BUT they also want to know what the exact problem is. Then they say "I cant afford it at the moment but I will bring it back next week" yeah right ! I say sure mate but you owe me $s for checking it out! I do have a sign well in sight of anyone that comes in, and they are informed of this fact before starting, but they still try you out. Normally I can tell the "dodgy guys" as soon as they walk in. In saying this it is a very small minority of people, 95% are genuine. I like to treat people as I would expect to be treated myself.And there really are two sides to every storyI dont mind answering peoples questions no matter how trivial they seem to others, if you dont ask questions you will never know ! I am still learning things everyday and so is everyone else in this worldI could go on and on but I have to goCheers All
Reply:Billy,Thanks for the comments. I agree with everything you say. See, I want to do business with you and guys like you. There are 2 LWS in town. One is a national company and the other only has 2-3 stores. The National Company has several employees and if I get the one who sold me my welder, then he is great. He takes time to help me, which is why I bought my first welder from him, and gives me decent prices on items I pick up including gas refills. The manager! Whoa, I have decided I will just walk out if he is behind the counter. He acts like he wouldn't pee on me if I was on fire. He charges me 20-25% more than the other guy.The local LWS is helpful, let's me look around and charges me reasonable prices. So that I where I get my welding supplies now.For steel, I initially checked prices to see where everyone was. I do all of that business with one Supply company so hopefully it will be enough to matter. I have an account there and they are usually helpful. But that is where I would do more business if I could ever feel like I wasn't a bother. When I need electrical wire, switches, boxes, etc. I don't know the NEMA code number or even the proper name. And sometimes you get slammed with an outrageous price compared to Blue and Orange. And they open and close the same hours that I have to work, so I have to leave work during the day to trade with them. It just seems they are like the National LWS and do not want "the crumbs" business. I am one guy that is willing to pay for you to check my equipment. I appreciate your expertise and experience and in a lot of cases, you are right, it is cheaper just to pay to have it fixed than try to do it yourself. And a lot of things are better quality and priced fair at the Supply company. Thanks for listening to my thoughts and understand my intent is to help these guys realize there is significant money to be made from guys like me.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Billy!You I wouldn't mind buying from!just cause I like aggravating people.Seriously though!I personally don't mind paying a little extra "IF" the seller is willing to go that little extra, I figure he's earned it!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:How about looking at it from the vendors POV one set of customers call ahead and place an order for 10 boxes of part number xxxx or he walks in ad asks for 24 of part number xxxx total sales $102.98 total time invested 10 minutes. The Hobbyist wants to fondle 12 items   wants a price on each and when al is said and done he walks out with $12.98 in sales that took the staff 10 minutes. I spend 2 hours a month waiting for the hobbyist to get his three items. I don't gripe when its in the box stores that is expected but when its in the industrial supply.... I say go play in the big box with all the other kids and let the grown ups  make some money. Time is money and I for one get fairly peeved having some hobby craftsman taking mine for nothing.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardI spend 2 hours a month waiting for the hobbyist to get his three items. I don't gripe when its in the box stores that is expected but when its in the industrial supply.... I say go play in the big box with all the other kids and let the grown ups  make some money. Time is money and I for one get fairly peeved having some hobby craftsman taking mine for nothing.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardHow about looking at it from the vendors POV one set of customers call ahead and place an order for 10 boxes of part number xxxx or he walks in ad asks for 24 of part number xxxx total sales $102.98 total time invested 10 minutes. The Hobbyist wants to fondle 12 items   wants a price on each and when al is said and done he walks out with $12.98 in sales that took the staff 10 minutes. I spend 2 hours a month waiting for the hobbyist to get his three items. I don't gripe when its in the box stores that is expected but when its in the industrial supply.... I say go play in the big box with all the other kids and let the grown ups  make some money. Time is money and I for one get fairly peeved having some hobby craftsman taking mine for nothing.
Reply:You missed my point.Some customers are not worth the effort it takes to serve them.If a supplier is all set up to deal with large account sales they dont need a large show room staffed with knowledgeable employees. They can sell to informed customers who don't need selling. So the employee count can and is lower and many can be stock pullers. Far cry from a local welding shop or big box store.I am not advocating any one be disrespected or given the cold shoulder. Just accept and expect what is real not expect the world to turn for your $1.00 when the store your are in is chasing   $100.00. I would agree shop for the best price and best service for the product you are buying. I dont go the the contractor counter and ask for advice on how to install a lock set, but at the big box sure Ill mine for all the free help I can get. Why expect something that is not in the best interests of the other party? They have a reasonable business model of selling bulk items to customers that don't need their hand held. More offten than not the order comes faxed in and is set out for will-call when picked up all that is needed is a signature, account is billed at the end of the month.
Reply:Ahhhhh, gottcha!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Fat B.I'm not disagreeing with you. And I am patient to wait my turn, even letting the professionals go ahead of me, but there are many times when I am 1 of 2 customers in the store, there are 3-5 guys behind the counter and they still seem reluctant to want to help me. As I said above, I worked retail for many years in the farm supply business and the "real" farmers knew what they wanted, didn't argue too much about the price, and paid their bills. The hardest ones were the doctors with tax write-off farms who would want to negotiate the prices, when they were clearly marked and consistently applied to every customer. Then they would want it delivered and you would have to chase your money at the end of the month. I try really hard not to be that kind of customer. I'm not trying to start any arguments with this thread. I'm trying to make the point that there are sales to be made at a decent mark-up from hobbiest. Let's keep the conversation going so I can be a better customer for you, but feel I am being treated fairly.And like other comments above, I am willing to pay a little more in return for good service. Thanks for your comments and views.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Everyone has a point when looking at it from there view, but from my point of view I am willing to go the extra yard for the hobbyist (as long as I believe that he is genuine) as he might spend $2 today and $5 next week BUT he will tell his friends and his friends will tell there friends "go to billy's he will look after you". Word of mouth, you cant get better advertising than that. I have had guys that tell there bosses about me and then they start buying from me. I have had guys come in with a real attitude and I still treat them the same, they usually come back as decent human beings, I have also told a few to get the f**k out also, but rarely. As for the larger companies a few will try to screw you for price, well I say screw them, I might as well go fishing if I am not making a profit.I have had hobbyists come in and want say a length of argon hose and a fitting to attach it to there regulator, I can tell they havent got a clue how to attach it so I ask them "would you like me to fit it for" takes me about a minute, no extra charge, they come back and spend more and more, it seems pretty simple to me.I dont use people up and expect the same in return, as I said in previous post I believe in "good old fashioned service and quality products at a fair price" they will and do come back time and again and there mates.A guy came in to my shop a couple of weeks ago, looked like he was "homeless", I helped him out with a small problem he had, he came back in a week later and bought a $4000.00 machine from me and did not even quibble about price.Cheers Guys
Reply:To the OP-- Hear yaEvery goddamn thing in my LWS has code numbers on it.  No goddamn price.  Go up to the counter, and the guy fiddle f^cks with the computer, and gives ya price.  WTF???????I might be bit##in' on the wrong wavelength.  I buy more than most, and less than others.  I might be gettin' a better price, and don't even know it.  Or they may be givin' me the highest price because, as y'all know, I'm an a$$hole.  DunnoBut it sure gets my nuts in a jam when I don't see a price"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:What I really love is how when things are cookin' .  Sales are goin' good, they treat ya like they don't know ya.Now when things are slow....... Ya could crap on the floor, and the guy would be scramblin' to wipe yer butt with the softest TP known to modern man.I deal now.  "Might do it with a cash discount".  That sorta thing.  Hell, it's my money!  I gotta work for it, and so should you."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I buy mostly from Airgas.  The prices are all marked, but I don't normally pay the full marked price.  I have an account there and get a discount on just about everything I buy, more on some things, less on others.  Granted, their marked prices are rather high on some things, but their discounts can be deep on some things too.  Some of their marked prices, surprisingly, are as good or better than the box stores, if you can believe that.  The folks there at my local Airgas have all been great.  They know me and we usually shoot the carp a bit whenever I'm in there.  The other local shops treat me good too, though they don't know me as well.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I buy mostly from Airgas.  The prices are all marked, but I don't normally pay the full marked price.  I have an account there and get a discount on just about everything I buy, more on some things, less on others.  Granted, their marked prices are rather high on some things, but their discounts can be deep on some things too.  Some of their marked prices, surprisingly, are as good or better than the box stores, if you can believe that.  The folks there at my local Airgas have all been great.  They know me and we usually shoot the carp a bit whenever I'm in there.  The other local shops treat me good too, though they don't know me as well.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1my money is just as green as yers
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCSure it is, but to the man behind the counter the hobby type guy will take a back seat to me because I spend several hundred to a few thousand per week in his store, and I'll take a back seat to the structural shop down the street that spends $10,000 per week in his store. It's the circle of life.Doesn't bother me, it's just normal.What the hobby types spend in a trip is almost not worth the paperwork involved, just like me going to the big industrial electrical supply house to buy a wall switch and a breaker, my money is green, but that company is in business and geared toward furnishing large amounts of stuff to electrical contractors. They aren't going to jump up all excited when I walk in that's for sure. Why would I expect them too?JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by rbertalottoAnd Massachusetts has a law that if consumers are allowed to access the product, it must be priced. When I was VP of a 240 store retail chain, we got pinched often for this infraction in Massachusetts.I shop at a place called New Bedford Welding Supply..............Just about the best shopping experience bar none!  Just about everything is available for a "feel". the only stuff behind the counter is consumables and a few rare birds.
Reply:Originally Posted by BillyI dont take a back seat to anyone, BillyOriginally Posted by BillyI dont take a back seat to anyone, wouldnt expect anyone else to either.  The sales guy doesnt know that you are only going to spend X amount of dollars today but then come back because they gave you good service and spend a bucket load. They should put a sign up "NO DIY's",  "Wholesale Only" or perhaps "show us how much money is in your wallet before we offer you service".My larger customers either fax or ring me anyway so I have extra time to spend on the "little guy", as my guys are packing the large order while I am spending 10 minutes on a $100 sale with the little guy, but then I like to have repeat businessBilly
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCYes you do. And these businesses ARE in business to work with industrial and commercial customers.If you think the guy is going to leave his $10,000 per week customer waiting while a homeowner tries to haggle on price of a 10 lbs spool of wire, you're mistaken. And I'm going to have to wait for them to load the big truck too, what's the big deal with that. Customers who buy by the pallet are in the front of the line, it's that simple. JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by Fat BastardYou are falling or have fallen for that socialist line of B.S. "life should be fair" and "we are all winners".You do take a back seat you are just floating down that river they cal De-Nile. Just funning with ya.I would like to say I give all my customers the same treatment but reality is I chase the guys with the deep pockets and the long term contracts.