help with flux core

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Recently me and my dad bought a trailerblazer 302 for mostly stick welding buckets. Since i was starting a welding class we also got a lincoln Ln-25 wire feeder with it so i could do some mig/flux. Since we didnt get a bottle yet i went a picked up a small spool of .030 self shielding wire. After some trouble getting it fed though the gun we were able to try and run a bead. DCEN is selected on both the machine and the wire feeder, and i have a proper ground... Now when i went to weld it was complete crap. Welding on 1/8 thick metal i changed the voltage all between 16 to about 22 and also changed the wirespeed between 2.5 to about 5ish. I didnt have any chart to look at to find the right settings but for the life of me i could not lay down one bead that looked decent at all. I can lay down a pretty nice bead with mig or stick so im pretty sure its a machine problem. So what do you think i should do for settings? Im not going for good penetration to really hold anything i just need a bead that looks good right now. Thanksand the last one is just a few beads from a long time ago when i first started. probably my 2nd or 3rd day welding so idk why these beads would come out so bad.
Reply:Holy Popcorn balls Batman! Thats an a$$ load of spatter!!I dont know much about that feeder but try to slow the wire down a little..Miller 252Miller 250Miller Syncrowave 250Esab Plasma Powercut 1250HF Basic oxy/act torches
Reply:lazlow,What is the product name and manufacturer of the fluxcore wire you bought?  We should be able to give you some better settings.Some fluxcore wires are not going to run well on flat plate, no matter what you do.  But I'll wait to hear back from you before commenting further.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Does the arc stop as your welding?  Sorta like intermittant.See how the wire feeds just when you hold it and pull the trigger.  Should be fairly fast and smooth.  If not look to the roll tension adjustment, and also the spool tension adjustment.  I've had some troubles in those areas.Don't understand the long wire laying on the weld area.  Is it not arcing, and just pushing wire sometimes?  That might indicate something electrical in the machine, and that's not a thing I know a damn thing about.  Me and electrical don't get along"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_dolazlow,What is the product name and manufacturer of the fluxcore wire you bought?  We should be able to give you some better settings.Some fluxcore wires are not going to run well on flat plate, no matter what you do.  But I'll wait to hear back from you before commenting further.
Reply:Originally Posted by FluxThisHoly Popcorn balls Batman! Thats an a$$ load of spatter!!I dont know much about that feeder but try to slow the wire down a little..
Reply:This isn't an a$$hole question, I mean no disrespect.What color is the wire your using?I wonder if they sold you the right stuff"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I checked Home Despot's website, and you most likely bought NR211-MP, a generic FCAW wire.  Here at the recommended settings from lincoln's website.Wfs      Volts 50       14  70       15  90       16 110      16.5Here's Lincoln's handbook for their products, where the info show above comes from.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ure/c32000.pdfA couple more things:There's some kind of voltage drop in the system, and you need to adjust for that if you're using a CV power supply.  It's usually a 1-2 volts, so when you set your TB 302 voltage, set the voltage on panel a volt or two higher than listed in the table shown above.  If you're able, you can measure the voltage between the ground and the feeder to get a better read on the voltage drop.Sounds as though you're probably running at too high a voltage, given the values shown above and what you mentioned in your first post.Check your stickout.  Should be 1/2 to 1" for this wire.  Really.  Trust me.Lastly, could be that you bought a really old spool of wire that's soaked up moisture.  Not much you can do about that, except go to a good welding supplier and buy a fresh spool that you know hasn't been sitting around for months or years.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Wire laying on thewelds is probably from not clipping or breaking off the scorched end of the wire from the last weld.  Am I right?Always twist off or clip off the wire before starting your next weld.  I prefer to clip the end, so you don't lose any flux at the tip of the wire.  That missing flux can make for a bad start or porosity...Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Alright sweet. Tomorrow ill go and check that out. And yeah my stickout was a lot shorter then that. I was pretty much going with what i was used to with mig. Now when i do run the beads should i be making the circles, whip it, or drag it? I havent gotten into flux yet in school since we are doing stick for everything which i like. Thanks for the quick help! Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doWire laying on thewelds is probably from not clipping or breaking off the scorched end of the wire from the last weld.  Am I right?Always twist off or clip off the wire before starting your next weld.  I prefer to clip the end, so you don't lose any flux at the tip of the wire.  That missing flux can make for a bad start or porosity...
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doI checked Home Despot's website, and you most likely bought NR211-MP, a generic FCAW wire.  Here at the recommended settings from lincoln's website.Wfs      Volts 50       14  70       15  90       16 110      16.5Here's Lincoln's handbook for their products, where the info show above comes from.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ure/c32000.pdfA couple more things:There's some kind of voltage drop in the system, and you need to adjust for that if you're using a CV power supply.  It's usually a 1-2 volts, so when you set your TB 302 voltage, set the voltage on panel a volt or two higher than listed in the table shown above.  If you're able, you can measure the voltage between the ground and the feeder to get a better read on the voltage drop.Sounds as though you're probably running at too high a voltage, given the values shown above and what you mentioned in your first post.Check your stickout.  Should be 1/2 to 1" for this wire.  Really.  Trust me.Lastly, could be that you bought a really old spool of wire that's soaked up moisture.  Not much you can do about that, except go to a good welding supplier and buy a fresh spool that you know hasn't been sitting around for months or years.
Reply:The stickout recommendation will help pre-heat the wire, and if there's any moisture in the flux, it may help cook it out.  You can go with shorter stickout, say 1/4" - 3/8", but I prefer not to.  Drag your welds.  You can also use a weave but stay at the leading edge of the puddle.  No whipping or circling back into the trailing side of the puddle.  Samm,  weldmark could very well be made by Lincoln.  I don't know one way or the other.  I've seen fluxcore run with short stickout, but it's not what I was taught or recommend.  Could be you need more wirefeed speed with longer stickout.  Assuming you're using a CV power supply, a longer stickout means lower amperage.  You'd need more feed to offset the loss in heat from using longer stickout.  Fluxcore welding seems to be strongly affected by type type of power supply.  Some are just better for it than others; but I don't know enough to be able to explain exactly why.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:You got me nervous when you talked stickout earlier before your last post.I scrambled out to the shop and took a quick pic.  This is what's left after breaking off the arc and discontinuing the weld.  I usually trim that back about half way before starting another weld.CRAP!!! Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I wonder if my eyes are actually seeing 1/4 as I'm welding.  HELL I DUNNO!!!!!!"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:NR211-MP, good wire!  You were running too high of voltage, that causes spatter.  Slow down, take your time and give it another shot.   Your LN-25 should have wfs in inches per minute right on the dial, high and low range.  DCEN is proper polarity.  Welder on CV?  Are you using the proper drive rolls?  Contact tip?  You should be able to get pretty good looking beads with your setup.Is the wire feeding smooth?  Herkity Jerkity wire feeding will never make for a smooth bead.  If the wire is not feeding smooth, sometimes I can feel it in the gun.  Usually a new contact tip cures that problem.give it another shot and show more pics.Nice try,  It will only get better.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:AHA!!!!!I knew I wasn't as crazy as I thought.  And I remember that I did RTFM when I bought the thingSo I dug 'er out againI guess there's a great deal of difference in machines.  Mine works at 1/2 max.  So much for my little Miller made HOOOOBART Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Yeh Lincoln recommends too much effective stick out in a document or two, less in others. In my mind 5/8ths to 3/4s inch is too much for the small wires (.035 n .030). I run too short a stick out a lot of the time tho. Just something I prefer. Get in close, adjust it for a hisss, then you can lengthen the stick out and fine tune the voltage. The longer the stick out the more critical the voltage.
Reply:I run about 1/2" stickout on .030 and .035 fluxcore.   Usually I run E71T-GS .030" McKay Speed Shield wire cause that's what I get the best price on at my local shop.I think you need to reduce the voltage setting and slow down the torch travel speed.Straight dragging, oscillating within the puddle, and z-weaving are ok.   Whipping and pushing are not good with fluxcore.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:The pictures in your last pic look like gas was used. Your flux core pics look about right, aside from the crap load of spatter. Flux core can putout a lot of spatter, but that just seems a little excessive lol. Other than that, the welds dont look too bad
Reply:I think this has been another good thread.It points out the difference between machine capabilities, and acceptable parameters when dealing with different machines, and I guess, consumables.  I give what may be lousy advice based on a small machine.  Others give different advice based on larger machines, and their experience with larger diameter wires.It takes me back to the arguement about semi automated welding.  It's becoming a question more centered around the machine than the man running the machine.  The machine is becoming a larger focal point in the discussion.I'm beatin' a dead horse, but Hell, I got nothin' better to do right nowGood ol' fashioned SMAW is mostly, or so it seems, about the skill of the weldor.  The machine seems to play a smaller role.What limited experience I have tells me to slow down, speed up, maybe whip to fill a gap in a bad fitup,................whatever.  And within a really wide range of amps.  It's the hand that does the work.  And it's the noodle behind the hand.Wire welding is a wonderful thing.  It opens up the possibility of working with different metals, and lighter ga. metals.  Something that stick welding can't do to a certain degree.I suppose I'm interested in talkin' about it because I live in a pretty small world.  I mostly deal with A-36 steel, and relatively thicker profiles that are ideal for stick welding.  I don't own a more powerful wire machine capable of dealing with thicker material either, unless it's multi pass welds.To me it's pretty cool stuff.  I'm startin' to look outside my little world."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by A_DAB_will_doI checked Home Despot's website, and you most likely bought NR211-MP, a generic FCAW wire.  Here at the recommended settings from lincoln's website.Wfs      Volts 50       14  70       15  90       16 110      16.5Here's Lincoln's handbook for their products, where the info show above comes from.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ure/c32000.pdfA couple more things:There's some kind of voltage drop in the system, and you need to adjust for that if you're using a CV power supply.  It's usually a 1-2 volts, so when you set your TB 302 voltage, set the voltage on panel a volt or two higher than listed in the table shown above.  If you're able, you can measure the voltage between the ground and the feeder to get a better read on the voltage drop.Sounds as though you're probably running at too high a voltage, given the values shown above and what you mentioned in your first post.Check your stickout.  Should be 1/2 to 1" for this wire.  Really.  Trust me.Lastly, could be that you bought a really old spool of wire that's soaked up moisture.  Not much you can do about that, except go to a good welding supplier and buy a fresh spool that you know hasn't been sitting around for months or years.
Reply:Lincoln recommends betwen 16mm CTWD for NR-211MP 0.035" diameter.  That's about 3/4".  I like a longer stickout, which is why I mentioned 1/2", up to 1".  But unless you've got a top notch CV power supply, you may not be able to run with that much stickout.  It's easy to get spoiled and sometimes I forget that I'm lucky to have access to excellent gear.So, start with 1/2" and see what happens.  I still say that a little longer is better than a little short for fluxcore wire.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Looks suspciously like 3/4"    Don't worry Samm, could be a 1/4" while you're welding as the arc is vaporizing the wire while you're welding.  Unless you're stubbing the wire into the base metal, you've got to figure that into the stickout length.Remember to that there's some slop in the wire inside the gun cable.  Could be when you took your measurement, it there was more than a normal amount of wire pushed out the end of the contact tip.... Originally Posted by farmersammYou got me nervous when you talked stickout earlier before your last post.I scrambled out to the shop and took a quick pic.  This is what's left after breaking off the arc and discontinuing the weld.  I usually trim that back about half way before starting another weld.CRAP!!!
Reply:theres a good video on welding tips and tricks.com that sets a machine up for you you hold trigger for 6 secs and measure the dist and multiply or divide and that will get you really close check out the video
Reply:Originally Posted by lazlowAlright sweet. Tomorrow ill go and check that out. And yeah my stickout was a lot shorter then that. I was pretty much going with what i was used to with mig. Now when i do run the beads should i be making the circles, whip it, or drag it? I havent gotten into flux yet in school since we are doing stick for everything which i like. Thanks for the quick help!yeah a few times i didnt feel like clipping it since i was just struggling to get a bead down so clipping it wasnt my first priority.Originally Posted by module0000Whip it for the "scaled" pattern you see in most FCAW welds in the flat position.
Reply:Don't "Leave" the puddle with fluxcore.Farmersam, I think your page is for MIG, it mentions more gas for porosity.  No gas with self shielded.  I still agree, 1/2" stick max out for .030 NR211MP.David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RDon't "Leave" the puddle with fluxcore.Farmersam, I think your page is for MIG, it mentions more gas for porosity.  No gas with self shielded.  I still agree, 1/2" stick max out for .030 NR211MP.David
Reply:If there's slag, then DRAG.  HomeDepot FCAW Lincoln wire is almost certainly Lincoln NR211-MP.  In 0.030 inch diameter.  Usually decent wire.That little diameter wire and that type of wire usually run with a pretty short stick-out.  1/2 inch stick-out is close (although I think the product manual usually says closer to 5/8 inch stick-out).And I can't even find actual parameters for the 0.030 wire.  Lincoln only seems to list the parameters down to the 0.035 wire in NR211-MP, which is the numbers that were previously posted.  So go -down- from there.btw, for the 0.035 NR211 wire:50 ipm at 14V is 30 amps70 ipm at 15V is 60 amps90 ipm at 16V is 90 amps110 ipm at 16.5V is 120 ampsAhhh, I found an older Lincoln Innershield catalog which lists parameters for 0.030 NR211.1/2 inch stick-out, DC(-)50 ipm at 13.5V is 30 amps100 ipm at 13.5V is 60 amps150 ipm at 14.5V is 80 amps200 ipm at 14.5V is 100 ampsYou had WAAAAAAY to much voltage going through that tiny little FCAW wire.  Unless you somehow had a whole lot of voltage loss in your cabling/wire-feeder hook-up.Turn the volts down, get the tip in pretty close to the work, and try it again.Oh, and note the workpiece thickness limitations for NR211 (5/16 inch thick MAX workpiece for 0.045 and smaller NR-211MP wire, 1/2 inch thick MAX workpiece for the 'bigger' NR211-MP wires).  And also remember that NR-211MP (or any E71T-11 wire) does not have to meet any CVN properties.  And machine buckets -usually- have some smashing-n-bashing going on (there IS impact going on there).  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...