generator/welder purchase

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After the recent ice storm here, and being without power for 10+ days, I'm looking into buying a generator.  Being a new welder, with a 110v wire feed welder, a generator/welder that would give me some more welding capabilities is attractive, but there is so much out there that I'm overwhelmed.  Of course, miller has a great reputation, at least here.I'm looking for a generator that gives 8-10 kw, and I need to know what to expect on the welding side, I've seen that the Bobcat has a variety of capabilities, but they don't seem to be advertising for newbies.  What do I get?  wire feed?  Stick welding?  what else?  AND, what can I upgrade to?  plasma cutting?.Again, I need the generator and the welding part just seems to make sense if they come as a package.What say you?Oh yeah, I'd like diesel, because in a SHTF scenario I can maybe make some bio-diesel.  I also need to know some good places to shop.Last edited by dapapa; 03-09-2009 at 10:07 AM.Reason: not done thinkingHobart 125Words mean things
Reply:Thats one hell of a step up from a Hobart 125??!! Are you really in need of a welding gensetr or just a generator? You can get two or three good generators for a price of one welding genset especially if you want to get one that is diesel. The gensets for welding are basically designed for mobile welding use and not as a standby generator for a house. Standby generators for a house are designed specifically for home use and use a time delayed transfer switch that prevents a dangerous feedback into the powergrid. Since you said you are new to welding and did not say you were an electrician I am going to advise against choosing the welding genset as your backup powersource for your house. Get either a good standalone portable generator that you can plug your home applicances into or go for the standby home generator with the power transfer switch..Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:The Bobcat is basicaly a very powerful 220v/110v generator and stick welder.  It does have constant voltage output and you can hook up a voltage sensing wire feeder, like a Lincoln LN25 or Miller Suitcase VS, to mig/flux weld directly from the Bobcat's weld outputs.  Since you already have a mig welder, just plug it into the generator power outlet on the Bobcat you're ready to go.   Same with a plasma cutter, except you also need an air compressor.   I run my Passport mig, Hypertherm 380 plasma and XMT power supply from my Bobcat with no problems (seperately, not all at same time).   I use a seperate gas powered air compressor for the plasma, though the Bobcat could power a small plasma machine and small air compressor at the same time if one is 110v and the other 220v.   There is only one 220v outlet on the Bobcat, but there are two 110v circuits at 20 amps each.  I have run the Passport on 220v and another 110v mig from the Bobcat together at the same time and they welded fine with both migs at low to mid power settings.  I use a seperate gas powered air compressor for the plasma.   The Bobcat does not have tig welding capability or remote-control mig feeder capability.   For that, you need a Trailblazer or Ranger (Lincoln) with the 14-pin remote connector and built in contactor.   You can plug a seperate tig welder into the Bobcat's generator output though, just like the mig or plasma.   A Maxstar or Dynasty or Thermal Arc or other small inverter tig can run off the Bobcat's generator.   A big shop tig will suck more juice than the Bobcat can give, though I have stick welded with my Dialarc powered from the Bobcat and it worked fine.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:You can use a welding generator as a standy generator for your house with a seperate transfer switch.   There is no harm in using it that way and there are instructions in the Miller owner's manual for how to connect it and install the machine properly.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Good to see you here dapapa.According to your statement, you are new to the world of welding and in so being, aren't really a "weldor" yet.  I would suggest you get proficient at your little 110 Mig first and then move up to a 220 heavier MIG. Then try your hand at stick welding by bying a Tombstone or Thunderbolt before you make a serious cash plunge and by a bobcat or even a diesel trailblazer.   You have gotten bitten by the welding bug obviously, but you need quite literally at least a year or two of serious practice and/or training before you decide to sink 7 or 8 thousand into a welder that will sit for most of the time.  You  probably bought the 110 because you either didn't have a plug for a 220 or because you wanted to go "cheap".  In either case, you really aren't prepared to have a engine drive welder.  With that said, it is a free country and you can do whatever you like...its your money.   But after seeing so many people jump into "welding" with a little 110v mig,  I suggest that you are going to be frustrated with its severe limited capabilities in a short time, if you are serious about welding.  Maybe that is one reason why you want a Bobcat. It seems as if you are doing some daydreaming if you are wanting to do "biodiesel" as well.  Welding and Biodiesel production don't mix in the same garage....You will blow yourself up.    Additionally,  very few of these machines, if any are rated for B100 or even B10.  You would ruin a welder without expensive and costly conversion to biodiesel.I am not trying to discourage....rather encourage you to keep learning, practicing, moving up to a better category of welders before you make such a serious investment.  Who knows?  In 6 more months that wire feeder my be collecting dust on a shelf in a garage or you may be fabbing up "sheet" metal every day after work.The worst thing for an engine drive is for it to sit. Engine driven welders do not like inactivity and prefer regular and hard workouts...sort of like a high maintenance dog with lots of excitable energy...Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:All right guys, I'm getting a clearer picture now.  You are filling in the gaps.  For any clarification, I'm really in the market for a backup generator for the house.  I have a pipe welder friend who was up for our recent ice storm and had his 10Kw welder in the back of his truck and used is to run his folks house.  It just seems to me that it would be a great combo considering my desire to have a backup for the house and the limitations of my current welder.  Please keep 'em coming, my learning curve is getting steeper, and I'm not there yet!Hobart 125Words mean things
Reply:Dapapa,  I have an Onan, 4000 microquite for sale. If interested I can direct you to the link with pics.jrw159
Reply:Originally Posted by jrw159Dapapa,  I have an Onan, 4000 microquite for sale. If interested I can direct you to the link with pics.jrw159
Reply:Yep, not what you are looking for, sorry.jrw159
Reply:Harbor freight has reconditioned Detroit diesel 20k + watt generators for about the price of a welder.  If you are concerned about having a good generator for backup, go to their site and look..It may only be listed in their magazines.Here's a link:  http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...word=generatorLast edited by lugweld; 03-09-2009 at 12:25 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Nice pickup on that one lug. Harborfreight does have some good ones listed there plus they also have the transfer switches as well.If he decides to puchase from harborfrieght my recommendation if that if they have a sold nearby buy it at the store and have it transfered from the distribution center to the local store that will save you the frieght charges to have it shipped to your house. Also for a purchase this large at Habor Frieght be sure to look for those coupons  you might see if you can locate one of those 20% off coupons that could save you a couple of hundred dollars.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Ok, what's trash and what's good in generators?  What should I NOT buy?  Chicago Electric? Onan?  Cummins?Hobart 125Words mean things
Reply:Harbor Freight is selling those reconditioned Detroit Diesels...Those are probably as good as quality as you will get:  Three phase 220 power and everything.(Three phase doesn't have can be used as regular 220 or 110).  I don't know the brand, but it might be ex military or something...can't beat it.  They also have home gensets explicity for back up power by Guardian, a reputable company.  I also know that from time to time, they carry Generac, another company that has a relatively good name for itself.Look at the transfer panels and disconnects that they have as well.  These are a must for installing a permanent generator into a house.    If you see "cummins tool" or some other Chinese brand,  I wouldn't get it...unless it is sold through HF...they back up their products with the warranties that they offer.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:If you need or want a generator, then get a generator.If you want or need a welder that is independent of the power grid for mobile/remote welding, then get an engine-drive welder.But getting an engine-drive welder just for the generator is usually not a good idea.  They are big and heavy and loud and usually more expensive than a 'comparable' generator.  Except maybe for the new-fangled fancy inverter generators $$$.But running an entire electric house on a generator for 10 days will take a LOT of fuel!  The 'bigger' portable generators (homeowner-sized portable generators of about 8kw, not the semi-trailer industrial 'portable' generators like Broccoli uses  ) will easily suck down fuel at about a gallon an hour at moderate load and more if fully loaded down.  For a long outage, fuel is a big concern!  Getting it, having it, storing it, rotating the fuel depot stock so that the gasoline doesn't go 'stale', etc, etc.Unless you get something like a natural-gas powered whole-house standby generator system.And running the 'big' items means you are looking at waaaay over an 8kw generator.  Unless you get a set-up that you can vary what actual circuits are 'active' at any one time.  That set-up is the 'fancy' multi-circuit transfer switch allowing you to cycle different circuits on or off so you don't exceed your generator's output.You can read up here at http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect....ectstandby.phpOr info at www.northerntool.com or many other places on the web about generators and transfers switches and so on.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:As said your 8KW will go FAST. One of the best ways to use a backup gen set is to pull all the critical circuits out of the main panel and set them up in the gen. panel. They usually are a few lights, your fridge/freezer,  furnace, well pump, possibly the stove etc. That way you are not draining the gen set running the clock on the VCR. The idea is not to live as usual, but to keep the vital things running. You don't NEED a dryer, the kids should have enough clothes for a few days, and they can always were them more than once if they really have to.I have used my 4500w generator to power the house after an ice storm. Popped the main breaker out to kill the in feed, and unplugged EVERYTHING in the house to eliminate all unwanted drains. Left fridge/ freezer plugged in part time just so they wouldn't defrost and stayed out of the fridge. ( if I had needed to, I would have moved all the food into coolers in the shed to keep the food frozen.) Stove needs 110v to light the burners, furnace needs 110v to run the fans (nat. gas) same with the hot water heater. 1 or 2 lights. That's it, no VCR, TV only to check the news, no hairdryer, taking long hot showers, just the very least needed.I would love to get a diesel genset. I keep at least 300+ gal of diesel on hand as I buy it in bulk for the trucks/ equipment, but diesel units tend to run 3-4 times as much as a similar gas unit. My biggest concern with the ice storm, was enough gas to keep the gen set running. That's why we limited the things that could be on, and only ran the genset to cook and heat the house. BTW you can't buy gas when the power is off for those that don't realise this (ie my neighbor who thought he'd just run down to the station and get some gas to run his unit.)
Reply:Get yourself a clothsline and a 2 burner propane stove and half of your stuff is covered. BTW, where are you located ?Oh yeah - 8 kids - make that 4 clothslines and 2 stoves.A butterfly without wings, is just an ugly bug
Reply:Originally Posted by Magnetic MechanicGet yourself a clothsline and a 2 burner propane stove and half of your stuff is covered. BTW, where are you located ?Oh yeah - 8 kids - make that 4 clothslines and 2 stoves.