Feed wagon spindles

admin

GuysI do these feed wagon spindles all the time. They are a real pain in the ***. Any way, what i usallly have to do is rework the spindles for the bearing surfaces and seal surfaces. The problem is, 9 out of 10 times i have to cut the axle and take the axle into the shop and use the press to get the spindle out. Below are pictures of the one that i have to get done on monday.What i am going to try to do is make a jig that i can us the spindle threads and take two 30 ton bottle jacks and try to press the spindle out, out in the field. That will save a lot of time and work if i don't have to cut the axle. I have tried portapowers, but i eat those up like candy. I am hoping that two 30 ton jack will work better. If anyone has a better idea, or does it a different way, clue me in on your trick.Aaron
Reply:I can generally replace most spindles cheaper than I can take the time to remove them, fix them and put them back in.  Have you tried heating up the tube with a rosebud?  I usually just heat the tube length ways for a few inches and they will come out.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:HammackThat spindle is usally in the axle about 18 to 20 inches. I have tried to heat the tube up with rose buds before. Just never had the luck of them coming out. Rusted to beat hell.
Reply:I haven't worked on anything that large or long, but find that tapping well all around with a ball-pein hammer will stretch the tube a little, break up any rust a bit, and help loosen the inner spindle shaft. You'd have to remove the dirt on top, wear goggles underneath, and have a rag to wipe the sweat when you're done, with that one. And use a huge hammer! The jack idea looks good if you have anything to jack against below. It doesn't look too symmetrical to me from those shots.Do you build the surfaces up by spraying, then regrinding, or do something else to rework the ends?
Reply:Maybe the owner needs to consider going to a heavier duty spindle/hub assy.                          MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Hey that looks like a Knight Lil Augie... I have had the same issue and after cutting things apart and rebuilding we then took on a PM schedule of checking and usually replacing the bearings once a year...Are these being pulled down the road at higher speed (JCB Fastrack ish)?
Reply:oldironI take the spindle out and put in the lathe. take about .060 off of the surfaces, re weld them with some Fabtuff 960 and turn the surfaces down to size. The spindles are big enough. The problem is that you have a feed wagon that weighs about 8000 lb and then you stick around 5 to 6 thousand more lbs of feed in them. Right now is when i do the most wagon spindle. Here in Nebraska the weather is starting to break and the frost is starting to come out of the ground. Then it gets muddy and sloppy out. Today it was 60. Next week we are looking at low 20 and that means those deep ruts are frozen and you can only imagine what those bearing are doing on that spindle when that feed wagon falls into those ruts.
Reply:and you can only imagine what those bearing are doing on that spindle when that feed wagon falls into those ruts.
Reply:Originally Posted by Ag SpecialtiesGuysI do these feed wagon spindles all the time. They are a real pain in the ***. Any way, what i usallly have to do is rework the spindles for the bearing surfaces and seal surfaces. The problem is, 9 out of 10 times i have to cut the axle and take the axle into the shop and use the press to get the spindle out. Below are pictures of the one that i have to get done on monday.What i am going to try to do is make a jig that i can us the spindle threads and take two 30 ton bottle jacks and try to press the spindle out, out in the field. That will save a lot of time and work if i don't have to cut the axle. I have tried portapowers, but i eat those up like candy. I am hoping that two 30 ton jack will work better. If anyone has a better idea, or does it a different way, clue me in on your trick.Aaron
Reply:You may also be able to use a slide hammer to screw on the end of the spindle. There is way to remove those spindles without cutting it from the frame.Master Baiter
Reply:For a one time fix I'd slit the tube with a grinder very carefully, heat it, and pull it with a slide hammer.When replacing it, take 1/4 inch off the end of the tube, reinsert the spindle 1/4 inch proud of the end thats been trimmed, then lock it in place with a weld bead.  Weld up the slit you made, and push it out the door.I always figure if it's broke, it can't get any broker  Besides, it ain't doin' me, or anyone else any good just sittin' there.  I suppose this sounds like a half baked way of doing things, but it's sometimes the only resort to get it back up and running.Just keep the bearings checked and greased, because you know it's a total replacement job next time around.  These guys would probably get the message.It's free advice, and just about worth what ya paid for it"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:60 ton of pressure sounds like a lot but I dont think it will be enough to pull any thing that has 18-20" of rust holding it in. Have you considerd a spindle lathe so the build up and turning can be done with out pulling the axel?
Reply:spindles lathes are expensive. I have tried slide hammer too. That doesn't work either. I am working on a jack press right know in the shop. I will keep you posted tomorrow. I will take some pictures. Aaron
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammFor a one time fix I'd slit the tube with a grinder very carefully, heat it, and pull it with a slide hammer.When replacing it, take 1/4 inch off the end of the tube, reinsert the spindle 1/4 inch proud of the end thats been trimmed, then lock it in place with a weld bead.  Weld up the slit you made, and push it out the door.I always figure if it's broke, it can't get any broker  Besides, it ain't doin' me, or anyone else any good just sittin' there.  I suppose this sounds like a half baked way of doing things, but it's sometimes the only resort to get it back up and running.Just keep the bearings checked and greased, because you know it's a total replacement job next time around.  These guys would probably get the message.It's free advice, and just about worth what ya paid for it
Reply:I like Samm's idea best.I agree with Danny, those axles/spindles/hubs are waaaaaaaayyyy tooooooo smaaaallll for a 14,000-lb off road vehicle!   That vehicle needs axles with parts at least the size of a Dana 70 or 80.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66Samm just posted my next option but I dont know if slitting the axel tube would open the tube up enough to over come the surface area of rust thats bound to be holding the spindle shaft in there. Maybe a combo of slitting, heat and the puller you are thinking about making?.
Reply:Another thought... with how many hours of labor I can see going into this project, it may be cheaper/faster to just cut out the whole axle and weld in an appropriately sized new pipe and  install bigger spindles at the same time, or swap in a pre-made appropriately sized axle...MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Actually, in the first line of Samm's post, he specifies slitting, heating and pulling.
Reply:In the ag world, nothing is built stong enough. I have around 50 of these wagons that i work on all the time, with more people calling everyday. Yes that axle is not big enough. Problem is back in the 70's when they first came out with this style of wagon, they weren't made for that kind of weight. Farmers are getting bigger every year and feeding more and more. This company made these wagons bigger, but these used the same parts. The bearing for this wagon with be the same bearing for a 20 year old wagon to a 2 year in future wagon.  I agree with you 100 % on the bigger axle. But look at it from my eyes.#1,,, I tell these farmers, hey you need to do something. I am told the same answer all the time. Just fix it as cheap as you can. That is the name of the game now a days. Do want your customer wants. You can stress your opinion, but that don't pay the bills. The customer is who pays the bills. I thing that is a VERY BIG problem with  new shops opening up.  Listen to what they want. After fixing something a couple of times, they will ask and then listen. #2 If you stick a new axle in it, its still going to go out. Farmers and construction workers don't do the best maintenance. If you spend all the time and money put a new axle in and they don't take care of it. You are going to have one pissed off farmer on your hands when you have to come out and replace that bearing and seal again in a year. Is it your fault, NO... but they don't care. You sold them a new axle. Sometimes the customer is wrong, but you never tell them that. You do want you are getting asked to do. They may ask for your opinion, and you can tell them what you think. Sometimes they will say OK, but in today's world, that is not going to happen.
Reply:Hey DRIf i cut the axle and take it to the shop, press it out and make a sleever for the axle tube, re machine the spindle and go back out and re weld it to the wagon and install the hub and wheel. Labor and two new bearing and a new seal.Cost about 650.00 Not sure if you can replace an axle, hubs and wheels for that???!! Hell the wheels by themselves are around 300 a piece. Aaron
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66The idea of my post was to incorperate Samms idea with the puller that is being discussed by the OP. Next time I will be sure to add a credit line to keep You happy. Have a good day.
Reply:Originally Posted by Ag SpecialtiesHey DRIf i cut the axle and take it to the shop, press it out and make a sleever for the axle tube, re machine the spindle and go back out and re weld it to the wagon and install the hub and wheel. Labor and two new bearing and a new seal.Cost about 650.00 Not sure if you can replace an axle, hubs and wheels for that???!! Hell the wheels by themselves are around 300 a piece. Aaron
Reply:Aaron, are these spindles welded in?  I really don;t see the need for 18" of spindle sticking  up into the tube.  For less than $650 I would think that you could remove the existing pipe and  add a new tube that you could bolt in a replacement spindle in and still have money left over.  Almost all of our peanut wagons around here are being converted to a bolt in style spindle.  I can buy the spindles and tubes for $80, cut the old spinlde off, and weld on a tube  in a couple hours.  Coat the new spindle with anit-seize and slide it in the tube, and bolt it in.   Out the door for $250-300 total.  If I bought the tube in full joints rather than cut to length with the spindle I could probably do it for less.  I just don;t see how you can justify removing a spindle then building it up and then turning it down considering that most spindles can be bought for considerably less than the cost to fix them.Last edited by Hammack_Welding; 03-15-2009 at 02:40 PM.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:HammackThat spindle is being held in by a bolt about 10" back. I can rebuild that spindle for around 60 bucks. What takes the time is removing the spindle. When someone bring me a spindle and i can weld up the surfaces and turn it down, i will charge them around 60 bucks. Problem is these spindles are build by demand by the company. Which i have thought about keeping some on hand, but the price of the spindle is around 150 bucks. You might not be able to tell by the picture, but the bigger bearing dia. is 2 7/16 and the smaller bearing is 1 1/2. Thought about making some and having them on hand, but just don't have the time to do that and also don't have the manpower to make parts for them to ride on the shelf.  I am thinking that this jack press might help me out. I will keep you posted as this is my first job in the morning. Aaron
Reply:My only concern is the thread strength.   Depending on how tight it is you end up stripping the threads rather than pulling the axle.  Only one way to find out though.  keep us posted on the outcome.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......Yeah that is my only concern also. How strong are those threads?????? We will see.