Tig Beads Some Guidance Please

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Well I got my new tig and was trying to lay some beads and would like your input. I've Mig welded before but only TIG welded once in a class back in '86. When I try to fillet weld it does not want to go where the 2 pieces meet only about 1/8 " away. I've tried my electrode from 1/8 to 1/4" out w/no difference. I'm welding 1/16" mild steel using 1/16" 2% thoriated and a 1/16" 70s-2 rod. Starting on the right I was at 50 amps and moving left ended at 90 amps.The aluminium Is just awful. It's from an old running board 3/32" thick. Using same electrode as above w/a 1/16 5356 filler. First in ac mode is your electrode supposed to from a ball on the end even if you pointed it? And end up flush inside your cup?  Second I dont have a clue where my settings should be I tried different settings from pulse to no pulse. AC balance, pulse freq, pulse balance, different amps etc.There are alot of possible adjustments w/this machine. I noticed differences w/each new setting but was not able to make a decent looking weld. I was betweem 40 and 90 amps. My welder is a POWERMASTER 205. Your input is greatly appreciated. Thank you. Attached Images
Reply:Jericho,Visit miller's website and read their online tutorial for TIG welding.  They also have an online calculator that will tell you what settings to use for a given material and thickness.  Start there, and try again.  If you're still having troubles after reading the Advice on Miller's website, post again.Benson's Mobile Welding - Dayton, OH metro area - AWS Certified Welding Inspector
Reply:Tig welding doesnt come easy, especially if you expect to get a professional lookin bead after welding for 15 minutes. You should just keep practicing and practicing until you get it. The top picture looks like you have the right idea going for the fillet weld. What i always tell beginners to do is start off with an autogenous weld on flat plate just to practice holding the torch steady and then move on to filler and then the filler and joints.Miller Dynasty 300dxSpeedglas 9002XMiller Spectrum 375 XtremeLincoln PowerMig 255xtLincoln PowerMig 140cMilwuakee Portaband
Reply:Hello i'm not a pro here but it looks to me that there is still alot of mill scale on the piece you are trying to weld. clean clean clean is the name of the game in tig welding try grinding your parts to shiny metal and give it a try.    Try running beads on flat with out filler and see how things look. Turn the pulse off and use your foot pedal if you have one .   I'm guessing you are useing straight argon for gas since you are trying to weld steel and aluminum. On the aluminum i bet that the running board is anodized and that is probably why you are having so much trouble with that. 90% of the time my tungston balls when i weld aluminum.   Practice,Practice ,Practice and you will get better i know i have with mine. Also i think on the miller web site there are some guides to settings and material thickness although it will not be for your machine but the principals are the same.   Jake
Reply:Is there nothing in the machine manual on welding technique and process or training videos on the manufacturers website?Your basic setup is good for the material you're working with but ending at 90amps is what's causing the 'blow thru'.  It should be the other way around if anything due to the build up of heat going into the material as you progress.  Keep your arc as short as possible and if needed use the filler rod to help start the 'bridge' between the two pieces then just keep it going with your filler timing.  As jakesporting stated, practice and the only gas to use IS argon regardless of material as I highly doubt you'll ever need any of the special TIG gas/blends.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks all I have visited the Miller site and did use their calculator as a starting point before I started. I kept turning up the heat to get it to bridge and experiment to see what would happen. I will try duaneb55's suggestion to use filler rod to start the bridge. How far out should electrode be for a fillet/instde weld?I sanded the aluminium before I welded but it still looked a little ruff, good advice though clean clean and then some. I don't think it is anodized though. I do have a foot pedal but I don't have a table to weld on. I basicly have to weld on the ground or something low so the hand control is what i use. I'm using 100 % Argon. I'll keep tryig and let you know how it goes.
Reply:Jericho,Sanding is better than nothing, but a good dedicated stainless steel brush will make it a lot better. Particles of grit from the sand paper can embed in the metal.I'd recommend starting with a #6 cup especially if you are using it for inside corner fillets.  Use a stickout of about 1/8 with that cup...possibly up to a 1/4 for the corner...You will find amperage comparisons in the manual for your electrode size.   Turn your balance control to around 30-35 percent.  Take  your frequency and run it up to at least 120 while in aluminum.This will help to stabilize the arc.  Also,  a 3/32 might be good for you try on the tungsten and will carry from about 50-150 amps.What's your gas flow rate?And yes  there is information in the manual on basic technique.  No videos yet, though...Will be soon hopefully.Last edited by lugweld; 08-08-2009 at 11:15 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Originally Posted by jericho777The aluminium Is just awful. It's from an old running board 3/32" thick. Using same electrode as above w/a 1/16 5356 filler.
Reply:Originally Posted by whitehendrix!you're not mixing the wire up between the carbon steel and aluminum are ya? doublecheck gas flow/pressure and watch the heat. you're burning thru pretty bad. i'm no pro so thats about all i can tell ya..  good luck!
Reply:Jericho,Sorry, but you've got so many things wrong I couldn't begin to get you on track.I'd suggest going to wwww.millerwelds.com and downloading a copy of their Tig Handbook.  An even better option would be to order a copy of their "Student Pack".  It's available for $25 including shipping.  It includes the Tig Handbook, as well as a lot of other excellent references (GMAW Handbook, etc).  Best $25 you'll ever spend.They also have available the Ron Covell DVD--Tig Welding Basics.You need to start at square one and progress from there as your skill increases.First thing I'd suggest is, forget the aluminum for now.  Start with steel and get proficient at tig welding.  Aluminum is a different material and has it's own set of requirements.  Bouncing all over the place will only confuse you.Learn to walk before you try to run.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by jericho777I'm at 15 lph for gas flow because I'm outside with a breeze. I've been inside w/5-7 lph. I didn't mix up the rods. The burn through is from some experimenting and trying to get a bridge started.Also on the AL ac mode I sharpened the 1/16" tungsten to a point w/it out 1/8" before I started and when I started to weld it immediately formed a 1/8" ball on the end that was flush with the cup is that normal?
Reply:al is much trickier than steel.master steel first.wind will blow away the shield gas and give you dirty welds.the steel oxidizes and makes black garbage(oxide)if theres no shielding from air(oxygen).ive heard tiggers say they wont let the dog wag his tail in the shop.you need a very short arc to get the puddle to form at the juncture of two pieces of plate. the longer arc is less intense and you'll get 2 seperate puddles=poor joint. practice smooth torch movement on flatmetal with no filler until you can make a strraight uniform bead and in doing this learn to control heat with the pedal(you got a pedal?).typically start hot and as you go along the metal will build up heat so you have to get cooler as the bead progresses.grind off scale and wash with solvent (acetone)to remove grease and get a clean bead. tig has zero tolerance for grease, unlike 6010.
Reply:Thr balling well beyond the electrode and the burn back, is likely due to too high of AC balance control...Reduce it to 30 percent .Also where are you running your amps with the 1/16?Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:i was told, in order to ball park the required amperage is .001 inch per amp.  so if you're welding 1/16 thick, which is .0625 in decimal, so its start at 62amps, for fillet (corner welds) bump it up a little more.that last pic:  looks like you started to melt the filler rod before you establish a puddle on the parent metal.  I started by burning holes on the parent metal.  that way, you can see how far you can go before you blow a hole in the parent metal.  establish a puddle, dip a little filler, move the torch, watch the puddle follow, and add more filler.... so  onoh yeah, i've only been welding a few months... so this is not the word of god.
Reply:To stand half a chance you need to sort out the quality of the gas shielding. Cranking it up high isn't really the solution (especially without a gas lens), if you have to work outside/in a draft set up a wind brakeAs said download the Miller TIG guides and leave the aluminium alone for now, once you become proficient with steel the switch to Al will come more easily You don't bridge the two pieces with a fillet weld, that just results in lack of fusion defects. Have a read of this thread... http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=23787&highlight=LOF
Reply:I agree with the most of ya, get the steel down first. And remember this when you're tigin, SLOW DOWN it ain't a race. This is what I was told 15 yr ago, had to pass it on. Like already stated CLEAN, CLEAN, CLEAN And when you do start weldin aluminum CLEAN is mandatory, even the air around you( tigin' aluminum in a dusty steel shop, sheww bad story) You'll get it, keep practicing it's the only way, HANDS ON. I love tigin' aluminum myself. I like it when people say, that looks pretty easy. I just smile and say, ya it is.      GOOD LUCK & HAPPY TIGIN'Don't let that iron in your lungs, turn to lead in your @$$!!!!
Reply:Weldbead mentioned the importance of keeping a short arc length, I will guess that your arc length is excessive.  You want a tight arc, 1/16" is good, no more than 1/8".Another common beginners mistake is melting the filler rod with the arc and letting it fall to the puddle.  You want to to dip the filler into the puddle, ahead of the arc, to melt and add filler.
Reply:I'm moving my welder back into my cellar to help w/sheilding problems (my wife won't be happy). I will try some 3/32 tungstens. I still need some kind of table so I can use my foot pedal. It's hard to only weld mild steel when you're excited to try out your new toy! I'll turn back the AC balance to 30%. I all ready downloaded the Miller book. There is still a big learning curve. I know my welds won't be perfect for a long while but as long as I can join two pieces of metal together in a safe manner I'll take a small victory. I'll let you all know how I make out.
Reply:I'm going to echo the point about arc length - the width of your welds and their wandering nature strongly suggests that you're holding the torch way too far from the work. Hotrodder posted a link above to a great thread on this board discussing arc length and weld width; it's really worth a read. I know you want to move on to making things, but I really think you'll benefit a lot from practicing on flat plate steel still. You want to be able to create a consistent bead on flat plate, with a relatively constant arc length & puddle size. Until you can do this - it's a case of motor learning (AKA muscle memory) in large part - you're going to frustrate yourself trying to keep things together in a joint. In the TIG book, check out the section on how the size of a weld should relate to the thickness of the workplate. You want a tight joint whose "legs" are about the same length as the piece is thick, which requires good control and a tight arc. This all sound reasonable to the more experienced welders?EDIT: Hey Jericho, where in MA are you?Last edited by pyrilium; 08-10-2009 at 10:40 PM.
Reply:Well I followed your suggestions and things look much better. Here's a new pic. I still need much more practice but things are looking up. I couldn't resist so I welded some aluminium. I used different settings and tungsten sizes just to get a feel. Thanks again. Attached Images
Reply:Well now things are looking better.   When you are finishing your bead double dip the last of it so you dont have that crater  (hole) in the very end of the bead . Keep practicing your starting to get it .    Jake
Reply:Jericho,Jake is right, fill the crater so you don't have a weak weld.  If you are in 4T,  take advantage of the down slope and final current  to fill the puddle.  If you are on the pedal,  take the amperage down slowly and fill the crater .Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT