Learn to TIG on a Dynasty?

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Hey guys, first post here.  I'm a systems/network engineer by day, gearhead by night.   I have had a MIG welder for a few years (Hobart 140, pretty decent little machine for the stuff I needed it for).  I have had an itch to get a TIG and a plasma cutter for my garage for quite some time - I have a lot of projects/ideas which I would love to be able to handle in house rather than shop out.  Of course I know I would need to actually develop the skills to go along with the TIG machine.  I'm seriously considering taking the welding courses at my local tech college.All that said, I've got a line on a few TIG machines and I wanted to get some opinions.  Not sure if this is the best forum for these questions but if another area of this BBS gets more traffic or is reserved for this kind of question, please feel free to direct me there.The two machines I am looking at are as follows:1) Miller Dynasty 300DX, Coolmate 3, TIG/Stick torches, ground, etc (complete with cart and argon bottle).  Asking price is a bit less than $3000.2) Miller Syncrowave 350LX, Coolmate/TIGRunner setup.  Very nice condition looks hardly used.  I think I can get this one for a bit less than $4000.  I'm leaning towards the Dynasty for the following reasons:1) Cost - $1000 less than the Syncrowave, nearly as much power and probably all the power I would need as I doubt I would be working with anything larger than .5" SS or Aluminum.  The 300 should be able to hand that, right?  Plus, I could get a decent plasma cutter with the grand left over (any suggestions on a machine capable of cutting .5" SS and Aluminum?)2) Size/Portability.  My garage isn't huge, the Dynasty would just fit a lot better3) Lots of bells and whistles - this could be a detractor as well.  I'm just learning the techniques and maybe all of the features would create too steep a learning curve?  What do you guys think?  I like the adjustable AC frequency as from what I am reading that will make thin aluminum a bit easier to work with.  4) Cost of running - The inverter looks like it will draw significantly less power (106 amps @230 on the 350LX!), so I wouldn't have to install a new breaker box in my garage to handle it. I know, both of these machines are probably overkill for a beginner.  But, I decided since I will most likely have project cars for the rest of my adult life, and I have many friends who are also car guys, that a good reliable machine with a serious support network would be the way to go.  I figure it is better to spend the cash up front rather than nickel and dime myself down the line.What do you guys think?  Do you have any advice regarding which machine might be better for someone starting out, and along the same lines, once I have developed the skills?  These both seem like the types of machines which I could easily grow into (and not likely grow out of), but I'm real curious to hear from the pros here.  Is the Syncrowave worth $1000 more than the Dynasty?  Is ~$3000 a good price for the Dynasty?  Again any recommendations on a $1000 Plasma cutter with the capabilities I need?  WWWWD?  (What Would Welding Web Do?)
Reply:For me I'd probably want the 350 because of the extra amperage (410 output if I recall?) The dynasty 300 puts on 200amps on DC and 250 on AC and would overheat in no time while the syncrowave would run all day. I don't think you have to really consider the power cost because it wouldn't have a significant impact on your bill either way if it's just a hobby. The dynasty does have Hz adjustment which makes the inverter favorable but other than that they will perform similar.I like welding some thick aluminum stuff for cars (intakes) and used to have a precision tig 225 and it couldn't handle the thicker material unless I preheated and used helium. I got a 375 now and it's nice knowing the power is available and under regular welding the duty cycle is 100% at all times. That poor little 225 overheated a lot when I tried pushing it.
Reply:Also, if the dynasty is enough power for you, why not just save some money and get a PT225 or a Syncrowave 200 as they both have similar outputs as the Dynasty 300 for half the price. I think the inverter machines are going to continue to drop in price as the technology increases, the whole goal is to get the most practical use for your money, right?
Reply:A Dynasty 300Dx with cooler for $3000 ?????  Holy smokes , if it where in good condition , I would buy that so fast it would make the guy's head spin .Yes the inverter based machines ( Dynasty ) are smaller and draw a lot less power than the Syncrowave machines . But , they are a substantially more advanced machine with a substantially different arc . A Syncrowave uses whats called a square wave arc whereas the Dynasty uses an advanced squarewave arc . On DC output , the Dynasty will be smoother .The real difference is on AC . With the inverter , you will have complete arc shaping capabilities . This , the Syncrowave cannot do .  Benefit ? Welding aluminum on AC .The inverter will have the capability to do a much nicer job . A wider AC balance , adjustable AC frequency and a sophisticated pulse capability can make a huge difference on aluminum .Is it mandatory to have this capability ? No , certainly not , but it is VERY nice to have .I currently own a Syncrowave but only because I could not afford a Dynasty .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:I faced a similar question a couple years back. For me the important/limiting factors were available juice for given output, space & I envisioned wanting portability. I went with the Dynasty over a Synchro. A little pricier but I have no regrets.To your other concern about "too much machine for a beginner", I'll let other more experienced folks weight in there, but I would say no.  I can and have been growing into it very nicely. Its a great stick welder too. Sometimes I feel like its overkill for me, but I'd rather have it that way. Personal preference.Doesn't sounds like you have any electrical restrictions, so your choice may be a little tougher and opens other ways of "spreading the wealth" towards other gear, as the previous poster pointed out.Miller Dynasty 200DXHypertherm PowerMax 45Victor OAIR CompressorLots of blacksmithing tools and other fun toys meant to creatively disfigure, reshape, manipulate and join metal.
Reply:Thanks for the replies guys - LT1Pat - I looked at the Sync 200 and the PT 225, these were initially on my "new" machine shortlist.  Both can be had for approximately $2k, minus the cooler and everything that comes with running it.  Given the cooler and torch setup would probably be another $500+ (or more if I went with brand names), it seemed like a wash.  My 'used' machine shortlist was initially the Dynasty 200 or the Syncro 250, but after looking around, I found the Dynasty 300 and Syncro350 I mentioned and thought the prices were pretty reasonable (I think Tigster would agree?!?)Pat, you also mentioned the PT 225 with similar amperage to the Dyn200 not cutting the mustard on the thicker Al you worked with.  I foresee working with .5" aluminum frequently (thick al flanges for intakes/etc), and .5" SS probably even more frequently (nice 321 header/turbo flanges).  Do you think the Dyn could do that, albeit at a low duty cycle?  I'm not a production shop so being able to run all day non stop isn't so much a concern.  Other frequent tasks will be .095 Chro-mo tube or .120 DOM tube, which I think the Dyn200 will have no problem with.You raise a great point about practicality for the money.  I think this is what draws me in the direction of the Dynasty over the Syncro, because I can then take that extra grand and get a good quality Plasma cutter, which would just save me so much time (and headache).Tigster, your comments pretty much echo what I've been reading - that the extra features on the Dynasty would be very nice to have - do you think a beginner will be able to make use of these features?  Do welding classes typically let you bring your own equipment in?  Or do most places have inverter machines in the classroom these days?mtcrawler - Honestly, I doubt I'll be taking the welder around with me much as most of my pals don't have 230v in their garages.  But, the fact that the whole rig is much smaller than the Syncro and therefore would take up less space in the garage is definitely important to me.  How have you found the learning curve to be on the Dynasty's advanced features?Thanks for all the responses guys, I half expected to get flamed as a newbie wanting to buy nice equipment.
Reply:Anything under the 200 amp range probably doesn't need to be water cooled, I could weld steel headers all day and the torch wasn't even warm (or at least warm through the gloves). The only time a water cooler came in handy was welding thick aluminum but the machine would overload and go into thermal cool down before my hand got too hot anyways (~225 amps). This is an intake hat I welded with the 225 and that was using 100% helium and pre-heat and it still wasn't enough to make as good of a weld as I wanted. You would want at least 300+ amp machine or even more if you wanted to stay near a 100% duty cycle. If you want to do 1/2" aluminum I strongly suggest:Syncrowave 250Precision Tig 275Syncrowave 350Precision Tig 375Dynasty 350DXThey dynasty 300 might barely squeek by with those thicker materials if you ask me unless you pre-heat and maybe sneak some helium in the mix.  Originally Posted by pc_weldThanks for the replies guys - LT1Pat - I looked at the Sync 200 and the PT 225, these were initially on my "new" machine shortlist.  Both can be had for approximately $2k, minus the cooler and everything that comes with running it.  Given the cooler and torch setup would probably be another $500+ (or more if I went with brand names), it seemed like a wash.  My 'used' machine shortlist was initially the Dynasty 200 or the Syncro 250, but after looking around, I found the Dynasty 300 and Syncro350 I mentioned and thought the prices were pretty reasonable (I think Tigster would agree?!?)Pat, you also mentioned the PT 225 with similar amperage to the Dyn200 not cutting the mustard on the thicker Al you worked with.  I foresee working with .5" aluminum frequently (thick al flanges for intakes/etc), and .5" SS probably even more frequently (nice 321 header/turbo flanges).  Do you think the Dyn could do that, albeit at a low duty cycle?  I'm not a production shop so being able to run all day non stop isn't so much a concern.  Other frequent tasks will be .095 Chro-mo tube or .120 DOM tube, which I think the Dyn200 will have no problem with.You raise a great point about practicality for the money.  I think this is what draws me in the direction of the Dynasty over the Syncro, because I can then take that extra grand and get a good quality Plasma cutter, which would just save me so much time (and headache).Tigster, your comments pretty much echo what I've been reading - that the extra features on the Dynasty would be very nice to have - do you think a beginner will be able to make use of these features?  Do welding classes typically let you bring your own equipment in?  Or do most places have inverter machines in the classroom these days?mtcrawler - Honestly, I doubt I'll be taking the welder around with me much as most of my pals don't have 230v in their garages.  But, the fact that the whole rig is much smaller than the Syncro and therefore would take up less space in the garage is definitely important to me.  How have you found the learning curve to be on the Dynasty's advanced features?Thanks for all the responses guys, I half expected to get flamed as a newbie wanting to buy nice equipment.
Reply:I was looking for a tig and decided on the miller syncrowave 200 kit, for $1900.00 in change for a brand new machine .I looked at used stuff but everyone had a story and the prices were high..I will use it for hobby and not production..I still have to make the leap and buy it,
Reply:Originally Posted by pc_weldThanks for the replies guys - mtcrawler - Honestly, I doubt I'll be taking the welder around with me much as most of my pals don't have 230v in their garages.  But, the fact that the whole rig is much smaller than the Syncro and therefore would take up less space in the garage is definitely important to me.  How have you found the learning curve to be on the Dynasty's advanced features?Thanks for all the responses guys, I half expected to get flamed as a newbie wanting to buy nice equipment.
Reply:Learning to Tig weld on a machine having all of the advanced arc shaping / pulse capabilitiesis no big deal . If you don't fully understand these features and are not sure how / when to use them , just don't use them . Simple as that . But , as your experience grows , these features can be very nice to have .Now , don't misunderstand me , terrific Tig welding can be done on a regular Syncrowave without the use of these fancy features . The person using the machine makes more of a difference than the machine ( most often ) .Realistically , how often do you expect to require a full 350 welding amps ? 300 and 350 amps is a lot of power for a new welder ( any welder for that matter ) .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:LT1Pat,Thats similar to the type of thing I would be working on, different application but same vein.  If .5" is going to be difficult to work with on a Dynasty 300 maybe I do need to think harder about the Syncro 350.  I know aside from the added cost of the unit I'm definitely going to have to address the circuit I would run the 350 on, it can't handle 100+ amps draw.Which would be easier/cheaper to repair if something went wrong?  I know the Dynasty 300 is no longer made, does that mean parts are going to be difficult to get?  mtncrawler, I am willing to bet that once I get this thing, whichever one I end up getting, I will be spending most of my free time practicing and learning.  And once I finish the M.S. I'm working on I'm definitely signing up for the welding courses at the tech school near me.   How do you like your PowerMax 45?  Thats the model I have my eye on.  Hoping for a nice used on to pop on the 'bay sometime.
Reply:I bought a dynasty 200dx to learn on.  It is a great machine that I doubt I could outgrow.I don't know what all the buttons do; don't need to.  All I need to know now is how to adjust current (easy).  Someday I will take the step of learning how to modify the waveshape/pulse type, but the machine works great in its default setup without touching any of those buttons.Tim
Reply:1/2" aluminum would be a stretch for it. At a minimum it would require you to preheat the material in an oven and use helium in your mix. I know plenty of guys running those big welders with smaller breakers than the max input but ideally it would be nice to have a 125-150amp breaker for the syncrowave 350 but if you had to a 80-100amp would probably be ok as long as you don't try to max out the welder. On the inverter side of things, A welder using a dynasty 200 produced some of the best welds I've ever seen. If you don't plan on doing the thick stuff often then don't let me scare you out of getting the dynasty.  Originally Posted by pc_weldLT1Pat,Thats similar to the type of thing I would be working on, different application but same vein.  If .5" is going to be difficult to work with on a Dynasty 300 maybe I do need to think harder about the Syncro 350.  I know aside from the added cost of the unit I'm definitely going to have to address the circuit I would run the 350 on, it can't handle 100+ amps draw.Which would be easier/cheaper to repair if something went wrong?  I know the Dynasty 300 is no longer made, does that mean parts are going to be difficult to get?  mtncrawler, I am willing to bet that once I get this thing, whichever one I end up getting, I will be spending most of my free time practicing and learning.  And once I finish the M.S. I'm working on I'm definitely signing up for the welding courses at the tech school near me.   How do you like your PowerMax 45?  Thats the model I have my eye on.  Hoping for a nice used on to pop on the 'bay sometime.
Reply:The PowerMax 45 is a great machine.  Would recommend this unit to anyone.Why just look at Miller TIG?
Reply:Wow, $3000 for a dynasty300dx, that is a steal!
Reply:Larry - Not just looking at Miller tigs, I also considered among others the Lincoln PT225, HTP Invertig 201, Lincoln Invertec and the ESAB Multimaster.  It just so happened that I ran across a fab shop going out of business and the two machines they are liquidating are the Dynasty and Syncrowave I mentioned.  They also have some other equipment I'm trying to talk myself out of buying, unfortunately no plasma cutters (some nice bandsaws though).If I could find a comparable machine to either of the ones available to me right now for as good a deal I'd certainly consider it, but I'd say I'm probably in the right place at the right time to snap up either of these excellent machines for a great deal, so they are right at the top of my list.I could just go with one of the multifunction units on ebay but I think over time I'll be much more satisfied with either of the Millers I'm looking at.
Reply:Fair call.  I didnt know you got on to a liquidation.  Some good stuff going around at the moment.Will it leave you enough money for a new plasma?  If so great.DONT buy a multifunction unit off e-bay.    You will be happier with a brand name and it will be easier for service if anything goes wrong.
Reply:These days, I wouldn't look at anything that isn't an inverter. The cost of power is important in a production environment, but the cost of getting the power is important  to a hobbiest. The Dynasties are wonderful machines, and even a 200 is likely to be satisfactory for what you are looking to do (except maybe at the thickest end of the aluminum).One drawback, as you noticed already, to the Synchro (or any similar non-inverter) is the high current draw. Not only the breaker costs money, but the large wire needed between the breaker and hte machine, and any other upgrades needed if you don't already have a large service. Large gauge wire is expensive. A moderate length run can make up any price difference in the machine, and then some. Add in that you will be hard wiring the machine which kills portability (check out the pricing on 100A outlets and plugs. When you start breathing again, you will likely decide that hard wiring is your only practical choice) If you might need any portability, even just outside the shop, the inverters win. No need for long, heavy,  expensive welding leads from the machine to the work. A much less expensive extension cord will do. The price difference in the machine is more than likely made up for in the other costs before you strike an arc if you buy new. If you go with one of the machines you listed up front, you start out $1000 ahead, and then gain more with the dynasty. To me, its not much of a decision (add to this: I really don't like the synchro's arc on stick, and there are times when stick is needed. Not real fond of it for TIG, either, but I have been spoiled at this point with more modern machines. I liked it fine back when that was the best machine in the shop)
Reply:enlpck - That sounds like very sage advice and makes a whole lot of sense to me.  The more I think about it, the less attracted I am to the Syncrowave and all of the extra headache that comes with getting it up and running.  In fact I can't come up with a good reason to favor that unit over the Dynasty aside from the higher amperage which I will likely either never or very rarely use.  I'd probably be in for around $4500 all said and done for the Syncrowave and the $1500 saved on the arguably better (but less powerful) machine could be spent on tungstens, fillers, gas, a plasma cutter and consumables.   You're right, its not much of a decision.  The other telling thing here is that several guys have commented on the Dynasty being a steal at $3000 (and I think I'll probably get it for a bit less than that), but no one has commented on the Syncrowave Tigrunner at $4000.  So it seems like the Dynasty is a much better deal.  I figured being a discontinued model, the Dynasty 300 might be less desirable, guess not.  I guess I've made up my mind....I'm excited to get it! Thanks for all of your help guys, I'll comment back once I have the machine.
Reply:I love my dynasty 300dx and would not trade it for a syncrowave any day of the week. If you really need to do lots of 1/2" al and up you should be looking into a dynasty 700 anyways. We got rid of all our transformer machines and are all inverter now. You will love the 300dx! I am jealous I couldn't have bought mine for so cheap!
Reply:Picked up the Dynasty 300DX this past weekend.  A few things worth mentioning:1) Cooler is not a Coolmate 3, its a Lincoln Cool Arc 40.2) Cart is not the Miller tigrunner cart, but a nice aluminum cart built by the previous owner, with enough workspace on top for small items and light fabrication duty.  Lower shelf houses the Dynasty, foot pedal, helmet etc.  Cart has shelves on either end of the workspace, one side is home to the gas bottle, the other to the Cool Arc (which is a pretty tall unit).  All in all I'm very satisfied with it! 3) This is a 2005 model Dynasty.  It doesn't have the auxiliary power output on the back (which would be nice to have as the Coolarc is a 115v version and could be powered by the Dynasty.  Is this something that can be added?I also picked up a horizontal wet bandsaw with a hydraulic downfeeder, 7x12 capacity.  Looks basically new.  I'll take some pics of the Dynasty rig tonight...Thanks for the help in deciding everyone!
Reply:Lucky you .  I'm envious !!   Post some pictures when you can .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Pics as promised:Front view of rig.  25 ft lead and watercooled #18 torch, foot pedal. Close up of Dynasty power unit:Rear view of cartCool Arc 40 and 4043 filler.  Also some 308 SS filler.Some scraps to work with Now a few more questions:1) Can anyone recommend some good books or better yet videos on learning to TIG?  I am really excited to learn how to use this thing!2) What's the best place to buy consumables, fillers, etc online?  My LWS is only open while I am stuck in the office, I rarely have time to get over there - which is why I need to get a bigger bottle (or two).  Also, they have always acted like they were doing me a favor to sell me anything in the past so what the hell, I'll just get it online.  My first project is going to be to modify the cart as follows:1) Add tubes to store other filler metals - 308 SS, 347 SS, 80S-D2, 70S2, 41302) Add lower tray beneath bottom shelf for clamps, brushes, magnets etcBut first I need to practice on that scrap...Thanks again guys.
Reply:That's a hell of a nice rig you got there . Check out www.tigdepot.net I've bought some fillerfrom them in the past and they have been very reliable .Miller MM252 with Q300Hypertherm PM1000Everlast Powertig 200DXMiller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Thanks Tigster!   And don't be envious, I still don't know how to use this thing!I'll check out tigdepot.net, and still on the lookout for good TIG videos etc....Also any other recommendations on sources for consumables are welcome.Thanks guysThis link will sure to give you a heads up on the Dynasty.http://millerwelds.com/resources/art...=story113.htmlHope this helps! Good luck!I went with the Thermal arc 185. Awsome features for it's size.Last edited by cmartman46; 08-19-2009 at 01:45 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by Tigster200A Dynasty 300Dx with cooler for $3000 ?????  Holy smokes , if it where in good condition , I would buy that so fast it would make the guy's head spin .Yes the inverter based machines ( Dynasty ) are smaller and draw a lot less power than the Syncrowave machines . But , they are a substantially more advanced machine with a substantially different arc . A Syncrowave uses whats called a square wave arc whereas the Dynasty uses an advanced squarewave arc . On DC output , the Dynasty will be smoother .ynasty .
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadthere is no wave on dc..
Reply:pc_weld:You'd probably like the Miller Student Package. It has a TIG welding handbook and a GMAW welding handbook, both about 140 pages long. They're available for free online, but I like to page through a book and make notes. It also has several smaller booklets. At $25 including shipping, it's a steal.Be careful, for some reason this link shows a quantity of 3.http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...d=211630&qty=19-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:I learned how to weld on a Dynasty 350, just dont use the settings you dont understand, and slowly progress into using them. There are a lot of features.I've learned how to weld steel, stainless, and aluminum, im currently trying for my aluminum cert on 1/8''it really just takes patience, practice, practice, practice and then some more practice.