What we do, Ornamental railing

admin

Did this a couple of summers ago.  Took about one week to build and a day to install. Attached Images
Reply:It is what the client wanted a curved rail on a square step. Attached Images
Reply:This is in Clarksville,TN.  Special to me because it is the only piece of work my dad got to see.  This was install at the beginning war in Iraq.  Clarksville is a military town (Ft. Campbell).  The streets were deserted, no traffic to worry about as I drove the forklift through the streets. Every construction worker had to continue to put money in the parking meter even though the building was under construction. The image in the center is an E of sheetmetal with a Cali lilly and a Butterfly.  The owner of the building wanted something special for her daughter.  The paint is Faux patina copper.  My wife does the Faux painting.  It was supposed to match the new copper awning, however the architect didn't consider the number of years it would take for copper to turn green.    About 2 weeks to build and a couple of hours of installation. Attached Images
Reply:Did this before Thanksgiving 2005. There is 65 feet of total rail.  45' is curved to the contour of the walk way. I enjoyed this job because it took so much palnning.  Without picket (balusters) It was like working with spaghetti. I cut the cap into 10 foot sections for bending.  The 180 turn leading down the steps is 11 inches in diameter.  That is the tightest I have ever bent cap.    Took one week to build and about 4 days to install.  I spent 1.5 days bending channel for the patterns.Last edited by tapwelder; 01-21-2006 at 12:56 PM.
Reply:those look awesome,my wife and i are building our first home in calgary right now.can't wait to do some custom railings for the front steps and for the deck in the rear.would love to see more, great inspiration
Reply:This the second job I ever bid.  There is much more railing in the back of this house.  The learning curve went straight up.  Told the client It would take one month of fabrication and installation.  I took about 3 weeks of fabrication and 3 months of installation.  Fortunately, the client was a fan of young clueless entrepreneurs.  He had been there, done that. He has given me several jobs since.   The client designed the steps himself.  There are know 90 degree turns  all compound, practically figured angles.The center piece is from King Metal.  My scroll work is behind the bushes, figure that. Attached Images
Reply:Finished this job last week.  The orginal center piece is from King.  It was too small, I thought. I added the outer scroll work.  It is a balcony rail.  Will have completed pictures later.  The seam on each ring is sealed my welding with o/a torch.  I once had an associate build a job with those ring and the client wanted the rings sealed after he brought it to the job site, they used Bondo.  The torch is easier, no cleanup. Attached Images
Reply:Really good looking stuff. I gotta tell ya, you're  inspiring the heck out of me.The big fence job I just finished. It passed inspection yesterday.   So they can plaster the pool and fill it up.Anyway there are several other custom homes going up in the same upscale neighborhood and I called all of the builders and left my name and #. One called back today and wants a quote for a juliette balcony. He's sending me the specs and Im really stoked. I hope I can get it.Another is a poarch hand rail  curved the one you did on the square steps. Can you tell me how you did the bends please. I guess I'm going to half to pay someone to do mine.good work....oh wait I just read your reply on harvs thread about the cap. That helps but I'm still not clear. Would you go ahead and weld the cap to the flat stock and then heat and bend. I don't mean to hi-jack your thread here. I gotta figure out quick how to do this or I'll miss this job.Last edited by TPnTX; 01-21-2006 at 05:27 PM.
Reply:TomI use channel underneath the cap.  I cold bend the channel on site. I have a jig consisting of two 4 inches of 3"schedule 40 welded upright to a piece of plate.  There is about 2 inches between the pipe.  Insert the channel into the jig bending a bump at a time.  Keep untwisting it after each cycle.  If you have two rails to build then be consious of left and right.I use the channel as my pattern.  I bend the cap to match the channel.  Most of the time I bend top and bottom channel then build the rail.  I add the cap to the completed rail.  Bending involves heating the outside of the cap and cooling the inside with water ( I use a lot of water, only applying it to the inside).  Heat(dark-cherry red) only points, not large sections. Stop cooling just before the metal stops moving (you'll figure it out).  I usually lean(hip) on the cap as I heat.  The process is slow but well worth the results.  Don't rush, or you will get kinks.  Sometimes the metal load up and will not move anymore. Allow it to rest until cool and start again.  I don't understand why that happens, though it does.  I use the channel and groove (underside) in the cap as a guide, as long as they stay close I know the curve happening.  Clamp cap to rail and continue to bend.  Always heat well before the turn, not at the turn,    The key is remembering that the curve is the sum of a lot of tiny bends.  It is important for the inside to contract.  Heating a wide section will cause flat spots and ripplesTom, the first job I ever did was a bending job, I had no experience I used a hydraulic jack in a jig I made.  The customer loved it.  Though I was dissatisfied with the marks left by the jig and the jack.  I bent cap and channel together.  Use lots of  spot welds  on the channel/cap because they want to seperate as you bend.  This an option too. My second job I used the hammer method on the channel, I couldn't get much movement out of the cap with the hammer.  I have never  tried a roller, I only do about 3 bending jobs per year so roller cost is not justified.When I started I couldn't find anybody to tell me how to bend cap.  I thought I'd descovered a new method when I began using heat and water--later found out it was an old common technuques.  I once thought about getting somebody else to do it, found out most of them were going to do it the same way I would.  However, if you have other things to do then don't hesitate to sub it out.  As my business grows, I am finding it wise to sub things out.  Large cutting jobs, painting etc.  I hope you take the job, get it out of the way, figure your own style and move forward.  I usually take jobs then figure out how to do them. That is part of the fun.
Reply:Nice work indeed.  I hear everyone talking about King  I'm in Memphis and we have 3 major ornamental iron dist. here Action Iron, Complex Industries and TN Fab. I do alot of ornamental iron work from gates to mailbox post
Reply:well I certainly appreciate your help and I'm not hesitant at all to try. My "fake it till you make it" attitude has been paying the bills for over six months. I'm used to cold bends on 1" sq tube so the channel so maybe I'll get it down on the 1st few trys. So do you keep the water flowing inside the cap tubing with a hose or what?
Reply:I worked at an ornimental iron shop for five years and the method we used was to trace out on a steel table the bend we wanted (two lines representing the inside and the outside)to end up with and then we would tack a bunch of scrap pipe peices along the inside line and tack the end of the cap to the table. Then we heated and bent the cap around the pattern. Sometimes we would tack two cap pieces bottom to bottom and bend them both at once if we wanted matching opposites. Mostly it worked fine unless we got too impatient and stretched a cap or didn't put in enough pattern pieces and ended up with wobbles. You can avoid hammer marks bending on a table with this method.Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 01-22-2006 at 07:12 PM.
Reply:How much do you guys charge for jobs like the ones above. I've been doing this stuff for years but always as an employee. Now, I'm starting a business soon and I've got to figure out what the going rates for these kind of things are.Last edited by 12,000 Doors; 01-22-2006 at 07:11 PM.
Reply:Tapwelder I can relate to the learn as you go with doing the unusual.  Heat is a real ally or an absolute to the death enemy if you offend it.Here's a job where the bends were all done with heat.  Top is two by two fourteen gauge, bottom inch and a half.  The channel was rolled in an antique wheel roller. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:I believe this was rolled using my Hossfield doing the old itty bitty bites. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:I know Viperman thinks this sux but it works for me.Here's a quickie square tubing bender. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:Sixteen gauge one inch tubing hanging a ninety. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:I set this up for a friend to make some temporary fence panels there at my shop. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:Here's a handrail I made for a ranch style house.I see two lessons here.  One was simple can be real good if you mix mediums.  Two, I used redwood and it didn't hold up very well.  I'd recommend a teak next time. Attached Imageslife is good
Reply:Reading tapwelder I feel like I met a kindred spirit.The great thing about welding is you can do things that you would never have thought possible before you started messing with metal and heat.Some people are great weldors and their forte is perfection.  They can do things and their attention to detail takes it from utility to art.  I see Garauld doing stuff like that.I see others similar to tapwelder and myself who pull some stuff out of thin air and sometimes it works.One of the most satisfying things a weldor can do is solve problems in a unique manner.  It's always gratifying when someone asks for something they can't believe is possible and you're able to deliver.After family, friends, and health I'm probably most thankfull for the opportunity to be a weldor and creator of things.life is good
Reply:HTML Code:So do you keep the water flowing inside the cap tubing with a hose or what?I alternate between heat and water.  Add one remove the other.  I used 12000 doors' method:  I used it on the 180 degree turn shown above.  I didn't think heat/water method would yield that much turn over that short a distance.  I was real pleased with the way it came out. I heated both sides with the inside always heated behind the outside.  The inside lagged behind the outside. Still only heat points, not large sections.  The inside must compress every time the outside stretches.   Spend much time on your jig and make sure there is appropriate space to complete the bend.  Also, make sure it is stout.I am not opposed to pure heat, however I prefer my method for long gradual bend because I am not doing a lot extra bending (jig, patterns) or preparing nor do I have any extra welding and cleaning.  When I finish bending the cap it is on the rail.  I use clamps instead of tacks.  Also those opposing forces do a lot of the work for me.  If you go pure heat make sure the inside stays on the jig as stated by 12000.  Add four feet to your cap for leverage.  Also, If you do not have extra then when you get to the end it will be too hot to touch.Tom everybody has given you good advice.  I believe you can do it regardless of the method you choose.  Just alot yourself the time to be patient.
Reply:the biggest obsticle for me gas been eliminated. I, for some reason, was thinking about bending flat bar stock. When you mentioned using channel, I smacked my on forehead.Lol I am overthinking the water issue though and I'd like to try it. When you say "inside" I can't figure out if you mean water flowing through the cap like a pipe or if you mean appying water to the cap externally on the inside edge as you bend. Either way does that mean using a water hose?
Reply:I apply a small stream of water to the side opposite the heat.  The inside is the side on the inside of the curve.  I use a water hose.  Though many people I've talked to or read about use a spray bottle.  I prefer a hose because it doesn't have to be refilled.  Though from what I understand water is an issue in your part of the country.  You could still bend 1/2X1" flat bar cold.  It is not too difficult.  I've done the same as channel.
Reply:....................IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:One of the most satisfying things a weldor can do is solve problems in a unique manner. It's always gratifying when someone asks for something they can't believe is possible and you're able to deliver.tapwelder  I have been doing smaller pieces of iron work, but have just landed a couple contracts for railings. I have never done curved railings, and would just like a little advice on how to begin that [email protected]
Reply:Great Thread! I built a rail for a client with a long, flat curve a couple of years ago. I had no means to apply enough heat, nor a big roller, so I hired the bending out and they did a poor job, in my opinion.  A torch is on my list of things to add to my gear, and now i know where to start playing with techinque. Thanks to you both.Steve
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderIt is what the client wanted a curved rail on a square step.
Reply:I usually quote by the part- even if I calculate it by the hour. That small rail was totally built from drop from other jobs, so times is all I have in it for $1000 and 3 days work including installation.  On larger rails I usually calculate 5 times material or more.  Check around your area to see what will fly.  No need to leave money on the table by bidding too low, nor missing out because you bid too high.