Head Broke Off Bolt...Please Help!!

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Hi Everyone,I have a bolt probably around 3/8 inch I think that the head broke off of it in the casting. I have this tool that once you drill it out and heat up the bolt, you can turn it counterclockwise and it will turn the bolt out.My problem is, I have a drill bit broke off in the bolt. It is too far in to grab and pull out, and I've tried a magnet too, and tryed turning it with a little screw. Nothing. Oh and I tryed using a bigger drill bit too which was probably a mistake. That didnt workSo how to I fix this? It seems to me that a different drill bit will not drill out another drill bit thats stuck inside there. Any ideas?Thanks
Reply:You don't mention if you have a welder, access to one, or have the experience to use one, but if you do have a welder the easiest thing to do is weld a nut onto the top part of the broke off bolt and wrench it out, that is if the bolt is at the top of the hole and not broke off deep inside the threaded area of the hole.I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Thanks for jumping on this one Dave.  I was looking for the thread with the photos you posted a couple months ago to post the link but. . .MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Sorry, I should have mentioned that.I do have access to welders either a 220V MIG or 220V Stick.  The bolt is a little bit under being flush.  I have tryed that once before but it seemed like I couldnt get enough penetration on the bolt because the nut would always twist off.  Also, I guess I was worried that I would harm the block of the other metal.
Reply:I did find these though.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ht=broken+bolthttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ht=broken+boltAnd here's one I pulled from an Onan P216.Last edited by duaneb55; 01-04-2010 at 07:21 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks Duane.  I'm checking them out right now
Reply:What if you drill a hole through your "donor" head and then do a plug weld to the top of the broken bolt. depending on the host material you want to make sure not to drive too much heat into it though.
Reply:Well I did drill out a little bit of a bigger hole with a bigger drill bit up to the old drill bit, so there would be more area for the weld to go.  The host material I believe is cast iron.  Not 100% sure.  So what are your thoughts on that?Also what if I heat up the bolt with a torch so that I have a better chance to get good penetration?  The biggest trouble I have I think is that this bolt is upside down and there's no way to turn everything right side up.  So if I try to weld with alot of heat, it might all just drip.
Reply:If it's much inside the hole, you can take a fender washer and beat the center in to make a little funnel. Make sure the hole is smaller than the bolt and you wont get into the outer metal. Weld the washer to the bolt as the funnel will go into the hole and get closer to the bolt. Then weld a nut to the washer and wrench it out. I've done it a bunch and it works great.
Reply:If your drill bit is broke off in the bolt and you can not get it out, you will need to take a torch (if possible) and heat the drill bit piece to cherry red and let cool on its own, that should anneal it enought to drill into with a slightly larger bit. The best ease out I have used is a cold chisel slightly wider than the hole you drilled and tap in with a hammer. use an adjustable wrend and slowly turn with steady pressure. If you think rust is your problem heat up the bolt and spray brake fluid and capillary action will pull it up into the threads, let set a few minutes to work and then try to break it free. Hope this helps. Randy
Reply:Can you remove the entire part and get a hold of some of the bolt shank?Miller Syncrowave 200
Reply:Bob, very good tip, I was just getting ready to make the same suggestion. Sometimes if the hole is big enough you can put a small length of pipe into the hole and weld through the center and then put a nut on the top of it to wrench it out.DuanneB Is this the thread you were looking for? http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35322I am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:You guys know all the tricks.If it is below the head surface just build it up ,take your time,if it breaks off ,just build it up again,with a welder you are never beaten. The heat will help to loosen it. Good Luck. I'v done it many times
Reply:What do you all think about it being upside down?  Will this make it even more difficult to get a good solid weld to the bolt?
Reply:Originally Posted by Prodirt6000What do you all think about it being upside down?  Will this make it even more difficult to get a good solid weld to the bolt?
Reply:Boy, you guys sure do give me a whole bunch of good ideas.  Now, which one do I choose?
Reply:post a pic and I'm sure these guys can tell you the best method
Reply:Originally Posted by dabar39Bob, very good tip, I was just getting ready to make the same suggestion. Sometimes if the hole is big enough you can put a small length of pipe into the hole and weld through the center and then put a nut on the top of it to wrench it out.DuanneB Is this the thread you were looking for? http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=35322
Reply:I agree a picture sure would help determine what method is best to remove the bolt.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:I'v done that to ,but never overhead as it seems that is the situation here ,but it is the same just a little harder.Build it up give it a little tug if it doesn't move a little more weld ,sooner or later it will give.
Reply:I’ve had the same problem. That broken bolt in the block is going to suck the heat out of the weld puddle, you’ll need to run real hot to get good fusion. Center the nut over the broken bolt and hold it in place with some magnets. Give it a few moments to cool, with any luck the heat will help break the bolt lose.
Reply:Use an EDM and burn it out, thats if access to one or place near by. I was lucky back when, had one of the first, sort-of worked.dave
Reply:I know this doesn't help the OP, BUT................Any time you try to remove a bolt, don't automatically go to the next bigger wrench or breaker bar, or cheater pipe.Original torque on most bolts is quite low compared to the torque you're subjecting the fastener to in order to loosen it.Think smart, and think ahead.If it won't budge with moderate force, and impact tools don't help, it's time to get out the heat wrench.Heat the fastener, or heat the casting around the fastener.You don't have to go crazy, but apply some healthy heat, then let it cool.  The heating and cooling cycle will be, in most cases, enough to break the bond between fastener and the threaded component.Now some folks will jump back in horror  OMG, you might change the characteristics of the metal with the heat  Well maybe you might.  BUT WHAT DO YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW??????  A completely useless piece of scrap with a bolt embedded in itJust a thought for the future."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The peoples want to know: What's the bolt it in? How much access? What broke the original bolt?Meanwhile, dealing with the broken bit:In a 3/8 bolt, the broken bit is probably 1/4" or less, and it's probably only held by a jammed cutting edge. A few taps and a reverse twist would probably free it. Put a piece of drill rod into each flute of the broken drill, clamp from spreading, probably with a Vise-Grip plier. Work the drill-rod close to the block surface, maybe with an adjustable wrench.As mentioned, the bit could be annealed, but it would still be a tough drill-out. Sometimes a broken bit or tap can be smashed; technical term. My favorite is to vaporize with O2, but this is no time to practice learning that MO.  Proceed with caution; no sense making more work.Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 01-04-2010 at 09:51 PM.
Reply:If the head is aluminum , I dont know. But if the head is cast iron , just weld on the bolt with 6011 till its up above the surface. 6011 wont weld to cast for nothin. Lay a washer on it and weld it out solid . Then tack a nut on that put a wrench on it after it has cooled to touch. That is the trick. Let it cool off completely. Then just turn it back and forth. It will give eventualy. I have taken out bolts that were broken off 3/4 in below the surface. Go for it.drilling any more and getting that broken bit out is a dead duck, I'd focus on welding it, and maybe getting someone who is good at welding to work on it for you if your skill level is still intermediate, being upside down for a skilled welder shouldn't change anything except for maybe a sore neck, I don't know who mentioned that fender washer idea and pounding down the center to make a "funnel" to get in contact with the subject at hand, but that my friend, seems like an excellent idea!... if the bolt is below the surface,   and I will be sure to remember that idea for myself in the future
Reply:The reason the drill-out is worth pursuing is because once a bolt has a hole through it, the bolt gives up a lot of grip. Also a drilled bolt opens up other extracion options.But again... It depends on why the bolt broke.If a bolt broke from over-torque while trying to turn with badly seized threads, simply welding a stub to it probably won't work. If a clean bolt was sheared off, or bottomed-out, then a simple weld will probably do the trick.Good Luck
Reply:I have had very good luck with using a small center punch or chisel and breaking up the broken drill bit, it then can come out in pieces and then redrill and easy outted. Sometimes during this process the bolt will start to turn and can be turned with the bit/chisel. Be very careful not to ding the threads or you will be putting in a helacoil.
Reply:did yiou try a left handed drill bit or and extractormiller maxstar 150   hobart handler 210 w mig conversion hobart 250 arc force plasma cutter    boston ind cutting torch miller performance auto darkening helmet milwalkee 14in chop saw 10,000 watt generator huge drill press and industrial band saw
Reply:if the block and head is softer than the bolt ( which unless it is a custom build motor it usually is) then you can use a cutting torch to melt out the bolt and drill bit. last year i popped off the head of my 49 chrysler and broke off a tap in one of the holes. an old man i know came over and showed me this trick and it worked well. the block disperses the heat before melting, and the tap/drill bit/ bolt will just melt out. being upside down will be to your advantage.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by Prodirt6000What do you all think about it being upside down?  Will this make it even more difficult to get a good solid weld to the bolt?
Reply:Lots of good advice in this thread. Here's a bit more that may help.  In regards to stick electrode selection, you will want to get you hands on some small diameter 312 grade stainless steel electrodes (1/16" if you can get them).  This is the grade of material (or a very slightly modified versions of) that is commonly used in most "wonder" rods or "extractor rods.  It is a higher strength material that can weld the nut over the bolt and drill bit with no issues.  You should be able to get it through your LWS