First project questions

admin

Hello everybody,I'm new to the forum and new to welding. I'm planning to start with my first welding project, which will be a combined welding cart and table. Already bought the metal - 20 X 20 X 1.5 mm pipes. I attached a basic drawing of what I intend to build. The thing that troubles me most before I start is - How to keep everything at right angles ? I've read a lot about distortion that happens during welding. Should I be worried about that in such a project ? How do I avoid it ? I'm using a 170 amps stick welding machine with 6013 rods. Thanks a lot for your answers. Oh, and another thing - do these rods need any special handling or can they be stored indefinitely at room temp (I've already opened the box) ? Attached Images
Reply:Usually, folks just keep 6013 rods in the box with a pack of dessicant.  As long as you aren't storing them in a really moist area, you should be fine for a while on those rods.  Low hydrogen rods are a different story, though.As far as warping is concerned, the quick answer is 'yes' you should be concerned about it, but warping is a factor you will have to deal with on almost anything you weld.  Generally, folks use clamps and a flat surface (like a welding table) to minimize warping, along with short tacks to assemble, followed by longer welds to finish.  There are more complicated techinques that involve anticipating the amount of metal contraction, but that takes a bit more experience.  I would say in your project one thing to keep in mind is to try not to 'over weld'.  Typically, the more heat/longer welds you put to an area, the more likely you are to warp it badly.  Just remember that a cart doesn't need to support a ton.  Measure everything carefully and measure again.  Tack your frame together using clamps, a carpenter's square, and a flat surface if you have them all.  Check you diagonals (remember, they should be equal).  Tacks should be no more weld than you can grind out  in a minute or two, but enough so a bit of movement will not break them.  I would think the three surfaces for shelves would go in last for a variety of reasons...one being you don't want to clean lots of spatter.  Another, is it gives you better access to weld the frame.Once you have the frame tacked together, start welding.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Like my buddy Norm Abrams (New Yankee Workshop) always says, "Measure twice, Cut Once", and , "You can never have too many clamps."  To keep your assembly square, TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!.     On average, I'd bet it takes me 20 times as long to set up a joint to be welded than it takes to actually weld it.     Set up, measure, tack, measure, "adjust" if necessary, measure, tack, measure and so on.    Use every clamp you own if necessary to hold your parts in place.   If your short on clamps, go get some more.   A variety of bar, pipe and "C" clamps is better than having all of one style.Based on your design, I'd spend as much time as necessary to get the first shelf rectangle welded perfectly square, I'd also tack in a temporary diagonal brace, then use it for a template/clamp jig for the other two shelves.There are no small projects
Reply:I like your design.  I am always trying to create more space when I begin a project.  I see a lot of designs without shelves or storage area and it is such a handy thing.  My only comment would be for you to consider putting casters on all for corners instead of just posts on one end.  Once you get it loaded up having to lift the front end each time you move it might be a pain in the neck.
Reply:Arc_it makes a good point about the casters.  Your back wheels might be fine, but at the very least, you need to put rotating casters on the front.  Welders are pretty heavy and you are bound to load up that cart with stuff you don't need on it anyway...just like everyone else does.  The temp diagonal brace is also a good idea.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Nice design for a bench. One problem with a welding table having shelves is everything stored on the lower level is exposed to all the grinder dust and slag. Gets pretty nasty in a hurry. Don't store anything that will burn or melt. Also a welding table needs a grate or some kind of holes for cutting small parts or holes in pieces when your fabbing. Everyone needs a nice bench though.
Reply:I guess I thought of this more as a welding cart than a table.  When it comes to a welding table I always think of  what wroughtn_harv said about having a table you can really abuse and hammer on that has some heft to it.  You could use this design for doing some assembly, tack ups etc but are you wanting to install a big vise and do bending, hammering ....  I think it would be tough on that design.
Reply:Well, I don't plan on doing heavy jobs on that table. I guess adding a pair of casters is a good idea taking into account the weight of the metal itself, not including the shelves (I could barely lift all those pipes...)Thanks for all the advice - I'll post pics of the job as I progress.
Reply:Almost done with the frame. Some of the welds turned out quite nice, but most of them are pretty ugly looking. I attached some pictures. I think that where the metal is thicker (like the bars that are holding the casters) - the weld turns out nicer. I guess that something is wrong with my settings. I'm using 3/32 (2.5 mm) 6013 rods, around 80 amps. The square tubing thickness is 1.5 mm. HELP please !!! Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by imagineerLike my buddy Norm Abrams (New Yankee Workshop) always says, "Measure twice, Cut Once", and , "You can never have too many clamps."  To keep your assembly square, TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!.     On average, I'd bet it takes me 20 times as long to set up a joint to be welded than it takes to actually weld it.     Set up, measure, tack, measure, "adjust" if necessary, measure, tack, measure and so on.    Use every clamp you own if necessary to hold your parts in place.   If your short on clamps, go get some more.   A variety of bar, pipe and "C" clamps is better than having all of one style.Based on your design, I'd spend as much time as necessary to get the first shelf rectangle welded perfectly square, I'd also tack in a temporary diagonal brace, then use it for a template/clamp jig for the other two shelves.
Reply:Originally Posted by shlomgad I'm using 3/32 (2.5 mm) 6013 rods, around 80 amps. The square tubing thickness is 1.5 mm. HELP please !!!
Reply:Thanks for the advice Arc-It,  I'll sure try it - although I "managed" several times to pierce right through the metal and create ugly holes -  I guess if I increase the amps - this might occur more frequently ?
Reply:I have done that myself as well.  Remember that your amps is only one of the indications of how much heat is getting to the metal.  Rod angle, arc length and speed of travel have an effect (Not to mention technique and skill).  With the 3/32 rod your using you should be able to control the puddle much easier.  To reduce the heat shorten the arc length, tip the rod off perpendicualr and speed up the travel speed.  To increase heat do the opposite.  What type of motion are you using with the rod ? Zig Zag? Straight ? Circle ?Try a zig zag technique and keep the rod tip in the front of the puddle.  Hesitate slightly on the edges to make sure it fills in and prevents undercutting.
Reply:I'll try. A lot of variables to control simultaneously. Hope it gets easier with time.
Reply:Originally Posted by shlomgadI'll try. A lot of variables to control simultaneously. Hope it gets easier with time.
Reply:Don't stop practicing.  Keep sending in those pics.  It does get easier -- especially with the help from everyone on this forum.
Reply:Originally Posted by shlomgadThanks for the advice Arc-It,  I'll sure try it - although I "managed" several times to pierce right through the metal and create ugly holes -  I guess if I increase the amps - this might occur more frequently ?
Reply:I know just what you mean Sandy - I've heard that "bwop" sound several time already. I discovered that by lifting the electrode high - it melts without melting the base metal and it closes the hole. I don't know if that's the way to do it, but it seems to work. And you are right about the influence of the joint configuration. Those outside corners melt like butter.... By the way, is there a special technique to weld a joint with a less then perfect fit (with a gap )?
Reply:Here are two pics: Attached Images
Reply:Nice shinny finish.. I would hate to get that project dirty.  I looks from the picture that you left the top unfinished?  (or did you use some type of clear coat?)
Reply:I left the top unfinished because I like to connect the work clamp to the table itself so that metal parts that are put on top can be welded. I guess if I painted it - this would not be possible, right ?
Reply:See this prior thread for how to keep your table top in good condition and what type of finish should be used. http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...aint+table+top
Reply:Thanks for the useful thread.
Reply:You can't weld on that table......It's too **** nice lookin, that thing needs to be wheelin' round some bottles of booze or somethin' like that........Nice job man!!Miller blue star 2eLincoln 175
Reply:looks really good there.. the only "problem" you may have is with the wheels not being able to handle some weight..it is a welding table correct?most tables will be the subject of "beating and pounding" while doing projects from time to time...because sometimes the project only "understands a bigger hammer"keep an eye on the wheels...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home." Don't  FORCE  IT !" (use a bigger hammer )
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodges" Don't  FORCE  IT !" (use a bigger hammer )
Reply:16 pounder is max, in my books. When i worked at Kaiser Steel, one of the best workers there , a flange  turner , died on the job, after swinging a 20 pounder . I think  16 #is "just fine" .
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodges16 pounder is max, in my books. When i worked at Kaiser Steel, one of the best workers there , a flange  turner , died on the job, after swinging a 20 pounder . I think  16 #is "just fine" .
Reply:The wheels - used to be the side wheels on my kid's bicycles - I really don't know how long they will last. Also - the cart turned out very very heavy - I will have to add front casters. Already bought them.
Reply:pick between the 12 or 16 pounder and when you've finished turning a 1/4 inch nut into a 5 inch pancake---------------------------------((quote)thats good ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.