I can't strike an arc on my propane tank.

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I just started welding with a stick welder.  I decided to practice on the propane tank, that I'm turning into a smoker, but I can't strike an arc and keep it going.  I'm using 6013 rods, and I can strike an arc on the brass fittings, but when I get to the steel it goes out.  Could it be that I need to use a different electrode?
Reply:You're either trolling or you're a candidate for the Darwin awards!  If you're trolling, get lost! If not, stop before you make the evening news for accidental death from stupidity!"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:The guy up stairs is trying to tell you something.   He doesn't want to see you in heaven anytome soon. NEVER EVER WELD OR CUT ON A SEALED PROPANE TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.      If you want to practice please try some scrap steel first.Lincoln 300 Vantage 2008300 Commander 1999SA250 1999SA200 1968Miller Syncrowave 200XMT350MPA/S-52E/xr-15Xtreme 12vs Millermatic 251 w/30A  Millermatic 251 Dialarc 250 Hypertherm 1250 GEKA & Bantom Ironwokers
Reply:is the tank cut? purged? ive welded on 100# cylinders that were purged/vented(fella used it for a target) and it seemed to me that there was and oily substance inside and the outside had boucoup layers of paint. if it has been made safe you can either throw it in a brush fire(with all fittings removed) and burn it clean or grind till yer happy. pigpen
Reply:Hook the work lead to the filler valve, straddle the tank, get a good grip and keep peckin' with the rod. It'll go eventually.
Reply:and yeehaw like slim pickens! pigpen
Reply:Fly me to the moon....... J, that aroma from your next BBQ smells great...... oh, wait that’s you.
Reply:You may find it easier to strike an arc on the propane tank if you first practice striking arcs on your car's gas tank.   MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Hi, I have only welded and cut one propane tank in my life which was about 10 years ago so my memory on the exact procedure I followed might be a little rusty, I had to make a pressure sterilizer (15 PSI) for myself when I used to tissue culture orchids and needed to sterilize a large amount of media jars. I got a empty 45Kg propane tank and had it's valve removed, I then filled it up with a strong detergent mixture and let it sit overnight, this I did each day for about a week. I think the last time I left it full and started to grind slowly and lightly using a air grinder( no risk of electrocution because of water going on the grinder), each pass  I would go a little deeper around the neck  till water started to seep out. Once most of the steel material was gone, a few hits with a large hammer and it broke free. I drained it and then hi-pressure water and detergent blasted the inside, once it was dried I sniffed it to make sure I couldn't smell anything then dropped a flame in it from a very long handle while I was behind the corner of my brick house, No fire or detonation so I then assumed it was safe to weld. I then ground back the plating and proceed to weld a pressure door as well as other fittings to it. Maybe this method was overkill or I was just lucky but better to be safe and live to grow old. Self preservation is a good thing and I wasn't planning on receiving a "Darwin Award".Now getting back to the original thread. The propane tank I used was zinc coated for corrosion protection. It may be that the tank you are using may also be plated and also painted, so when you try to strike an arc the zinc vaporising may be causing the arc to go out. If it is plated you will have to grind off the plating. Also it sounds like you have connected the earth clamp to the valve  and so when you try to strike the tank there may be thread sealer between the valve and the tank body preventing the arc from striking, Which if this is the case. Stop trying to do this !!!  because you will probably blow your self and anyone around you up. A sealed empty propane tank is not empty of fumes. The inside may also be coated with something and heating the cylinder wall may cause it to vaporise and cause an explosive mixture within the sealed space.. Use scrap metal to practice on and not propane tanks unless you have a death wish.Disclaimer: I should also point out  that I am not qualified to give any advice on doing any sort of welding on a old propane tank and doing so carries inherent risks and is very dangerous and maybe I was just lucky doing it the way I did, and the method that I used is not an endorsment for success, and so I accept no responsibilty or liabilty of any kind if you decide to do the same and the tank explodes regardless. If you do this you do it at your own risk!!!!:Miller Auto Invision 456 + S-62 wire feederC6240B1 Gap bed lathe16 ft3 air compressor16 speed pedestal drillHafco BS-912 Bandsaw
Reply:To J.Deiner, I kept thinking about what you had written in your original post after I posted my reply, and if you are doing what I think you are doing then pack up your welder and your power tools and sell them and never get anymore, this way you will live a bit longer. Self preservation is obviously not your strong point and I don't mean that in a nasty sort of way.Miller Auto Invision 456 + S-62 wire feederC6240B1 Gap bed lathe16 ft3 air compressor16 speed pedestal drillHafco BS-912 Bandsaw
Reply:To everybody that thinks I'm a moron, sorry I wasn't specific enough. The propane tank has been purged, I've already cut it with an angle grinder, and lit a fire in it. I just need help getting an answer to the question I asked.
Reply:Originally Posted by J Diener. . .I can strike an arc on the brass fittings, but when I get to the steel it goes out. . . .
Reply:Hi, My apologies then for my comments, but you should have been more specific, welding can be a very dangerous excercise with electrocution, toxic fumes and explosive environments to contend with even for those who know what they are doing. However while it may have been amusing for us to joke about it amongst ourselves at your expense, I should point out that there is a website called the "Darwin Awards" and it is filled with the senseless deaths of hundreds of people who have done idiotic and stupid things propably without thinking that there was any danger resulting in their deaths. No one really wants to see another entry.  If you are not familiar with it, do a "Google" search for it and read the stories behind the deaths and you will understand why we responded the way we did.Anyway now that the issue has been clarified, I still think that it is a coating problem either zinc, paint or some other rust inhibitor coating and if the valve is in place and you have clamped the earth lead to it and can't get a connection to the tank then it may have a thread sealant coating between the valve and the tank preventing a good current flow.I suggest you grind a section of the tank itself down to bare metal and see if you can then get a spark. I can't imagine that the tank would be made from anything other than  standard mild steel metal,  even stainless, high tensile, or high/low carbon shouldn't prevent an arc, and I would't think it would be made out of aluminium either. So in my opinion either you aren't getting a good connection or the the rods or welder itself  may have a problem, so to rule that out, can you do a weld on a piece of scrap steel just to rule out the rods and the welder? If that works then place the earth clamp on a ground down section of the tank itself where it has been cut and try to do a weld next to it. If it still doesn't work, then I am at a loss as to why.Miller Auto Invision 456 + S-62 wire feederC6240B1 Gap bed lathe16 ft3 air compressor16 speed pedestal drillHafco BS-912 Bandsaw
Reply:I'm betting on the thread sealer between the brass fitting and the tank.Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:Originally Posted by J DienerI just started welding with a stick welder.  I decided to practice on the propane tank, that I'm turning into a smoker, but I can't strike an arc and keep it going.  I'm using 6013 rods, and I can strike an arc on the brass fittings, but when I get to the steel it goes out.  Could it be that I need to use a different electrode?
Reply:just a Q but why do we all jump on the new guy or when someone ask an unclear question? seems we were all new or not an expert once upon a time. pigpen
Reply:Since this question comes up regularly, let me state here that I think it would be useful if a new member of a website had to visit a few sticky threads that contained information about how to post on the site; how to use the search feature (assuming it worked), how to include enough information to make questions clear, where to find instructions for adding attachments, etc. before being able to post there. I'm not a computer geek so don't know if that's possible but if not, maybe some short, blunt announcements about the same could follow the registration process.[The above suggestion is an an 'academic expression or idea, not directed at any particular OP or post]  As pointed out above, a number of things can cause the OP's problem. To begin with, does the ac remain stable on another piece of scrap steel? Is this using AC or DC, which polarity, what current, electrode size, base metal type, surface preparation,  etc. The more information, the better the answer usually.Don't forget; we always need pictures (and iff they're really good, they don't even need to be about the question!  )
Reply:Samm - Can you see about having Oldiron2's suggestions UPSed over?
Reply:A guy decides to take up skydivingas a sport. So he contactsa flight school and sets up the lessons. After taking the classes and practicing for a couple of weeks on the ground heis ready for his first flight. He takes off and is standing inthe door of the plane checking over his gear to make sureit is all OK. They reach altitude and he jumps. As soon as heis clear he pulls the rip cord, and nothing happens! So he immediately pulls the cord for his reserve chute. Again nothinghappens. As he looks down and see himself rushing toward the ground he notices another man flying straight up at him. As theypass he screams to the other guy "Hey do you know anything aboutparachutes?" To which the other guy replies "No, Do you knowanything about welding propane tanks?"
Reply:Although J Diener has since provided a better description of what he's doing and has done in preparation, that right there is some real funny stuff paulinarkansas!MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by paulinkansasA guy decides to take up skydivingas a sport. So he contactsa flight school and sets up the lessons. After taking the classes and practicing for a couple of weeks on the ground heis ready for his first flight. He takes off and is standing inthe door of the plane checking over his gear to make sureit is all OK. They reach altitude and he jumps. As soon as heis clear he pulls the rip cord, and nothing happens! So he immediately pulls the cord for his reserve chute. Again nothinghappens. As he looks down and see himself rushing toward the ground he notices another man flying straight up at him. As theypass he screams to the other guy "Hey do you know anything aboutparachutes?" To which the other guy replies "No, Do you knowanything about welding propane tanks?"
Reply:Talk about jumping to conclusions!
Reply:Back to the original q . I would grind clean both where your ground clamp goes and where you are going to weld. The closer to each other the less resistence and the better the conduction. If that does not work it may be there is something wrong with the welder
Reply:Originally Posted by shortarcI'm betting on the thread sealer between the brass fitting and the tank.
Reply:I used an old propane tank to make a tire bead seater tank, after removing the valve, purging and washing the tank out thoroughly, I welded a bung for a big ball valve and a small bung for a pressure relief valve, I have to say it welded fine using mig. the problem might not be that it is a propane tank but something else, bad ground, settings, PAINT, or something like that which would give you problems on anything....... just me passing my opinion, even if your certain the tank is safe to weld on, I don't know if the valve is still on it or not, but I'd remove it, take or leave it, I'm just sayinOriginally Posted by tx_swordguyBack to the original q . I would grind clean both where your ground clamp goes and where you are going to weld. The closer to each other the less resistence and the better the conduction. If that does not work it may be there is something wrong with the welder
Reply:There are special rules for bonding CSST that need to be followed and I think you need to get the rules from the manufacturer of the CSST. Using the wrong methods could be more hazardous than no bonding at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by Old FartSince all the highly skilled mental midgets have demonstrated their skill level responding to your post, let me see if I can help you.1, It isn't a ground clamp, it's a work clamp.  That means it clamps to the item you are trying to weld on.  The work clamp MUST have good electrical contact with the work or not much is going to happen.  Ideally you want it close to where you will be drawing the arc, although you rarely get that opportunity in the real world..
Reply:Well said Ed.For example, I wonder how Old Fart would like to be torn into for saying: "drawing" an arc? Because for drawing an arc, wouldn't one  use a paper, pencil, and compass? He may  say "draw" an arc. Others may say: strike/light/burn/run.We each know what the other intends; what's the point in nitpicking, let alone insulting?Good LuckLast edited by denrep; 01-29-2010 at 05:53 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by denrepWell said Ed.For example, I wonder how Old Fart would like to be torn into for saying: "drawing" an arc? Because for drawing an arc, wouldn't one  use a paper, pencil, and compass? He may  say "draw" an arc. Others may say: strike/light/burn/run.We each know what the other intends; what's the point in nitpicking, let alone insulting?Good Luck
Reply:A little late paulinkansas, but thanks for taking the time out of your day to write me a story.
Reply:Hey,   I thought the guys that squeeze their butt cheeks when they walk called it an EARTH clamp.I heard of one instructor that would make a student who called a welding electrode a welding rod stand and say " this is my welding electrode and not my rod..." Until he was sure they wouldn't slip up again.I guess it just goes to prove that a Fart isn't always a Fart.Last edited by lugweld; 01-29-2010 at 07:21 PM.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I think I figured it out. I just checked my voltage. I'm getting 311 at my dryer and 135 at the new outlet for my Hobart Stickmate LX (30 - 235).  I guess 12g isn't large enough.
Reply:I don't think the gauge is your problem.  Check your wiring with a volt meter. You should have your 311 between two of the lugs and between each of them and ground should have uour 135.I'm not an electrician, so mabe someone else can explain it better.Trailblazer 302Hobart Stickmate AC/DCLincoln SP 135 TSmith torchSpoolmatic 30A
Reply:I just want to thank the man that started this thread, and all that have responded. I have been learning by trial and error on EVERYTHING my whole life. And I will admit Ive done some REALLY dumb things. With the down-turn of the economy, americas' and my own, Ive been kinda depressed.... but I have tears down my cheeks from laughing soooo damn hard. Thankyou! For the 'real' ideas, and for the humor!! That is a heart felt thankyou! you have all made my day!The first step to having everything you want is to want everything you have.
Reply:It was my wiring.  Now I'm running beads with no problem at all.  I appreciate all your advice. Now I just have to work on the appearance of my beads.
Reply:Originally Posted by Ed.Thanks, I absolutely agree.  I didn't really want to dump on Old Fart too hard but didn't like the name calling, it wasn't warranted, but really a "work clamp" is much more misleading than earth or ground clamp. For example, I could have discussed work clamps in general, a work clamp could be anything from a G or a slash clamp, a self locking quick grip or many other types of clamps used to hold various pieces of metal or work together while you tag or weld, and the definition would still be accurate, even though none of them have a connection to the welder cable. Or if I was really annal I could have described my "earth/work/ground clamp" which I made and is a modified G clamp with a the cable lug connected to it with copper washers on either side of the 1/2" bolt connecting the cable lug through the G clamps webbing. So, as I can supply the return circuit to the welder through it to my work table, or use it to actually clamp pieces of metal for welding and at the same time provide the return circuit to the welder, it then trully is a "work clamp" but so are all the others even without a cable. This could go on and on.So just as well I'm  not annal!!! LOL.  But anyway this is now getting off topic and I think everyone has had their say so I might exit from this thread. RegardsEd.
Reply:from the new guy who hasn't had time or energy to think up an intro...after you pull the valve out of these things fill the whole tank with soapy water and let it stand a few days..Propane is liquified petroleum gas, and has some oil components left in it, which settle out and cling to the tank...the soap will help it soak loose..drain after a few days and cut...cuts down on the nasty smoke you get too...
Reply:Maybe he doesn't get a good contact to bare metal from that springy clamp thingy that has a wire connected to it that goes back to the welder(not weldor).   Oh Oh,  maybe he has one of those screw clamp thingy things with a wire connected to it that goes back to the welder(not weldor).