Bottle for Mig?

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So, i've been shopping around to maybe get a bottle for my new clarke 130en, locally, the shop has a 60 cu/ft for $142 empty, +$26 for the gas (C25) w/ tax that would be about $180. they also have 40's for $62 empty +$26 filled (total w/ tax $94).now, i have found a 55 cu/ft bottle, for about 95$ shipped online, empty. says it has a CGA-580 valve, and rated DOT 3AA 1800. tank was tested oct of 09.is that a good deal? im not sure about the ratings or vavles, i would probably have to contact the shop to see if they will fill it?lemme know if there's some other info i should know before i put $$$ down on a bottle.
Reply:Almost all my inert gas bottles, argon, 75/25, helium etc are 2265psi or 2400psi bottles. 1800psi is a very low pressure for most cylinders. I haven't even seen a 2015 psi cyl in years even for O2. You may find the local place will not swap that bottle readily as it doesn't match what they normally trade. Most of the 1800psi cyl I usually see are old CO2 cylinders often from old CO2 fire extinguishers. It may have been one that someone changed the valve on in the past, possibly when they had it tested in 09. I'd be cautious on this myself. It may be an old fire ext. that someone had hydro'd and had a CGA580 valve put in to make a few quick bucks. There's no savings if you can't easily get it swapped or filled. I've got an old Scott airpack cyl that someone fabbed a CGA 580 valve for after getting it tested. I picked it up cheap because the guy that bought it found out too late that no one will fill it or swap it out. He got suckered by the seller who grabbed a ton of old steel fire dept cyl at the scrap yard and was getting them hydro'd and selling them off to unsuspecting guys on CL. At the time I had the facility's to fill it at the shop for portable use, but since then, it's not much good usually, as it's more of a pain to fill than any other ones I've got that I can just trade.The prices new sound close. I can't find my last sale flier, but I want to say an 80cf filled at my LWS runs about $200 with tax. The 60cf probably would end up about $180 or so. You may find they have a bit of maneuvering room on the prices. My place will usually give the "sale" price with a bit of haggling or if you are picking up other items at the same time. I usually go in with some kind of rough idea what on line prices can be and then ask and see how much they are willing to move. Going in and demanding they price match internet sales is a good way to guarantee that they don't budge on the price however. I usually keep it low key and tell them I want to do business with them rather than on line, and ask what the best price they can do is rather than shove a price in their face and demand they match or beat it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:My LWS has 110cuf bottles for 240 with the first fill. Its worth it to get one from them, then exchanging isn't an issue.Syncrowave 350Coolmate 3Millermatic 251Spoolmatic 30A
Reply:Ok, i figured something was up with that price. glad i asked, thanks for the info.i can still get a bottle from another online dealer about 20-30$ (including shipping) cheaper than my LWS. might still go that route but i'll call to see what they're willing to do. or i might just get it from my LWS so i dont have to wait.i'd get a bigger bottle, but i just cant justify it. i dont do that much welding to warrant more than even a 2 hr supply of gas, but my LWS doesnt offer 40 cu/ft bottles, they only have 20's or 60's. so i figure i'll set myself up with a 60 and be good for a good long while. i'll probably run out of metal scrap or wire before i ever run out of gas. plus i dont exactly have a ton of room for a big bottle.
Reply:Don't think I've ever seen a 20cf at the supply.A few thoughts from someone who started with a small bottle. 2-3 hrs of weld time seems like a lot. Now lets look at most "home" projects. You do a bit of practice here and there durring the week. 15-20 minutes a couple of nights getting ready for your "big" project. So Monday you get your 60 cf bottle to start. That gives you maybe 3 hrs or a bit more of weld time. 3 nights of practice and your bottles down 1/3 to 1/2 by Friday. Now do you go and swap out that 1/2 full bottle now and throw  all that gas away, or do you risk that it will run out by the time you finish on Sunday building your bumper/ table/ cart etc? Most supply places are not open on Saturday so you are screwed until it opens on Monday again.Notice in your 1st post that it costs $26 to fill the 40cf and the same to fill the 60cf. An 80 probably will be the same price or may be $4-6 extra. A 100 or 125cf most likely will only cost maybe $10 more at most. I don't think the last time I got the 125 cf filled it was more than $32 including tax. Space for a 125cf isn't all that much more than a 40 or 60 cf except the height. If you do what most do, and build a cart with the bottle on the back, there's no real room lost. In fact, I use my 80cf on the "small" mig to hang the cord, work clamp and mig gun with the hood over everything. Bigger cylinders cost less per cf of gas. the only real advantage of small cyl are for those that are truly portable and haul the machine around the site. I have a small 60 that I almost never use, because it kills me to pay as much to fill that, as it does to get one of my big bottles filled.I like to support the LWS as much as possible. I need them to get fills. It's a PITA to have to drive way far away to get gas. If my local branch closes the next 3 nearest ones are at least 45 minutes one way to get to them. Thats a lot of fuel to use just to have saved a few bucks on line. Think it can't happen, don't bet on it. I've seen 2 other companies close their local stores in the last 6 months. Talking to my counter guy, 90+% of his gas and supplies gets delivered to the customers shop. The customer calls him, he types in the order, then the order gets loaded at the main wharehouse or at his store when the driver does the shops gas drop, and then it's delivered to the customer, who's there to take delivery and give the driver the emptys. He's mostly a "convienience" store for small sales and emergency items. Most of his sales are impulse buys. The guy from XYZ contractors stops in to grab an extra bottle and toss it on the account, so he grabs a new pair of gloves and a few lens covers while he's there. or in the middle of a job the conttractor runs out of mig tips, or needs a new liner, and while he's in the shop grabs a box of rods for the next job. .Last edited by DSW; 02-27-2010 at 11:38 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:started calling around some more, and i came across a sweet deal...guy tells me he sells his bottles brand new for 120$, then he told me that there was another guy that just came in over this past weekend wanting to sell both his bottles for 50$ each. i asked him how big they were and he said 60 cu/ft. im gunna jump all over this if they're good bottles. even if they were empty that seems like a pretty sweet deal.. i can get each of them filled for around 26$.