Welding thin materials

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Hello Expert Welders, My name is Jerry Desaulniers and I am not an expert welder. As a matter of fact I'm an engineer working on a project and my lack of welding skills are obvious! That is why I'm reaching out. I need to design something that requires some small sheet metals to be welded together. In two seperate parts of the project I need to get small sheets of metal butt welded together and the thinner the metal the better. But I dont want to design the impossible, but something possible for a very average tradesman.  Case 1: I need to get a 12 inch butt weld of two sheets of aluminum. What is the smallest gage of aluminum that I can safely get welded together?Case 2: The material to be butt welded together is stainless steel and the weld is 16 inches long. What is thinnest material that I can use?
Reply:Well, I've seen soda cans and razor blades butt welded together, but that takes a serious amount of skill, and serious warpage can be expected with welds that long.Why can't this be made from one sheet again?
Reply:.032 and .025 aluminum sheet is commonly welded in long welds for aircraft parts, has been since the 1930's. ANything much thinner than that I think is out of the hands of the "tradesman".
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanWell, I've seen soda cans and razor blades butt welded together, but that takes a serious amount of skill, and serious warpage can be expected with welds that long.Why can't this be made from one sheet again?
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860.032 and .025 aluminum sheet is commonly welded in long welds for aircraft parts, has been since the 1930's. ANything much thinner than that I think is out of the hands of the "tradesman".
Reply:Originally Posted by jerrydesaulniersThank you for your reply. Have you witnessed any applications with thin stainless steel?
Reply:Does the seam have to be air/watertight?  One option would be to roll your cone, put a step/flange on one end, and then do a series of plug welds down the flange, or a lap joint/groove with backing.  Spot welding would also be a possibility, and plug/spot welds would probably be your best bet for minimizing warpage on the stainless.
Reply:Hello I'm a welding engineer, and welder.  What's the intended application/ joint requirements.  Length of weld isn't a factor Beyond the fact that very long welds are harder for to fit up and square. If the connections are non structural (and usually sheet metal is rarely considered structural by itself) Then it opens up your options to make the weld as easy as possible for trade personnel. At a former sheet metal company  We regularly could sheet metal fuse as thin as 28 ga GTAW. and anything around 18 ga 0.050" and thicker is readily done quite easily.that being said I think you might be taking the long way about this project. But weld joints are perhaps one of the harder/hardest joint configurations for thin gauge metal. because quite literally if you had 0.010" off mismatch you've reduced your weld thickness by 20%! which makes it very easy to blow through.alternatively I suggest a flange, or an offset integrated backing strip, If your design will give you clearance outside the plane of the metal.  An offset backing strip is pretty easy to do.And for the record the preferred joint for sheet metal fusing and welding is an edge weld OR outside corner weld. Sometimes it's possible to change the joint location to a corner instead of the middle of the plate to successfully complete the weld.Welding EngineerCertified Scrap Producer
Reply:It may behoove you to read an article on the H.L. Lyons company and their experience with welding thin gauge SS on appliance covers.Was published on the miller board, so hope the link works.http://www.millerwelds.com/education.../story113.htmlSyncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:TIG is the way to go but your task is not for a rookie. See if you can find someone in your area to do this for you.ORPractice, practice, practice, and then practice some more.Scotthttp://www.welders360.com/New guy.
Reply:As the cited article suggests, this is probably a good application for pulsed TIG.   I know that pulse seems to make it easier to weld 0.043 inch (1mm) thick copper, which is at least as difficult as aluminum.  I use about two pulses per second, seems to let me weld without constantly adjusting the foot pedal.I am sure that a highly skilled operator could do it without pulse.  The real pro welders are generally not big fans of pulse.Sounds like a good project to farm out to somebody who TIG welds thin metal frequently.  I would probably try welding some scrap myself, to see if I had a reasonable possibility of success.   Welding copper, I now weld test pieces before I try to weld any real product, gets me warmed up, makes sure that the machine is dialed in right, etc.   The test pieces seem helpful, particularly since weeks can go by when I do not TIG at all.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:rafer,I have to take exception with one of your comments.Pro tiggers, who understand it's capabilities and limitations, ARE big fans of high speed pulsing.I don't know what experience you have, but judging from your signature, you don't have the equipment to take advantage of high speed pulsing as described in the referenced article.That sort of "blanket statement" has been known to get people in trouble, especially when they're talking outside of their field of expertise.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Tig is not the only game in town, if you have the skilz.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=39654City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:You can weld aluminum foil if need be, it's all about heat control.Use a heat sink, some HS compound and be prepared for slow progress.CWI, CWE, CST for Miller, Lincoln, Thermadyne, Hypertherm & ESABMillermatic 350PLincoln Invertec 205 AC/DCVictor combo torchESAB PCM 1125