Question about gates!

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Does anybody know if the universal building code regarding the baluster spacing of 4 inches applies to gate construction?  I have seen a lot of ornate gates that a 4 inch sphere would pass though easily.john
Reply:I believe (could be wrong though) where I live that is a requirment especially if there is a pool in the back yard that is not enclosed by a separate fence. Not sure about the spec otherwise since it wouldn't be needed to prevent a fall from a height.
Reply:Under the ICC and IRC codes, if the gate is at grade, no 4" rule.The hazard is falling (mostly little kids).If the gate is more than 30" above the floor or grade below, the 4" rule applies. (e.g. IRC section 312).Checked the pools -- there is a 4" requirement for swimming pools (appendix G).  Forgot about that.  Good catch.Last edited by phila.renewal; 04-07-2007 at 09:29 PM.
Reply:Thanks guys!  I have a client who is holding up my payment based on his assumption that the gates I have built and installed are not to code.  Actually -- i had never considered a gate (or fence) for that matter, that didn't protect a pool, school or daycare to have a width requirement for the up rights.  Ironically, i think that where this does apply, the same application applies to the distance between the bottom rail and the ground!  Correct me if I am wrong!john
Reply:Originally Posted by WoodStoneSteelThanks guys!  I have a client who is holding up my payment based on his assumption that the gates I have built and installed are not to code.  Actually -- i had never considered a gate (or fence) for that matter, that didn't protect a pool, school or daycare to have a width requirement for the up rights.  Ironically, i think that where this does apply, the same application applies to the distance between the bottom rail and the ground!  Correct me if I am wrong!john
Reply:yes just a gate.  The gate spans a driveway along side of another business.  The purpose of the gate is to keep people and vehicles from entering the rear of the property when the business are closed.  The gate is about 60 feet off the road and about 50 feet from the sidewalk.  It would be a security gate for his property.  I do not think that he is trying to get out of paying me, I just think he is wrong about his potential liabillity.  My problem is that I am being percieved as shoddy by not building the gate to (his interpretation) of the code.  From my experience -- I need to deal with this "perception!"  Whether I add more to this project or not by adding additional pieces, I need him to understand that he has not been slighted.  I am charging him 1900.00 for 2 -3inch square posts anchored in 32" of concrete reinforced with rebar.  The gates are approx 7 feet long by 6 high not including the ornamate spires.  2 cane stops a security lock and an additional security key drop box made out of quarter inch structual steel.  The installation includes painting and the removal of the old gate system.  I will drop by there tomorrow and snap a couple of pics to post.Thank you for your helpjohn
Reply:I would call the local code enforcemnet officer and tell them you are looking to build what it is you made and ask them if there are any codes you need to be aware of._________________Chris
Reply:Thanks Chris  I will do that Monday morning!
Reply:I totally agree with what Chris said, the ONLY way to know for sure, is to check with your local code compliance officer /building inspector. I tell my clients it goes like this:1. The way the code is written2. The way it is interpreted by the inspector3. The way the rest of it interpret it4. (sometimes applies) Common senseSo, since the inspector has the final word, it must be done in a way that appeases him/her, regardless of how the customer or you thinks. Yes, most cases, like this especially, you have to make the customer happy, if he knows it meets the law, he WILL be happy!Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:Originally Posted by WoodStoneSteelThanks guys! I have a client who is holding up my payment based on his assumption that the gates I have built and installed are not to code.  Actually -- i had never considered a gate (or fence) for that matter, that didn't protect a pool, school or daycare to have a width requirement for the up rights.  Ironically, i think that where this does apply, the same application applies to the distance between the bottom rail and the ground!  Correct me if I am wrong!john
Reply:The 4 inch spacing issue is based on babies/toddler retention and. If he or the inspecting authority expects to have toddlers crawling around the parking lot unattended then I suppose it must meet code.   An inspector I suppose might conjure up all sorts of purposes that he would like the code to solve.
Reply:Don't you just love customers that know just enough to be a pain in the *ss. A welder friend of mine recently put up 4500 feet of pipe fence for a guy. The guy demanded that it was to be done with a root, hot and cap passes all done bottom up.
Reply:I was going to post this earlier but I had not been back to snap a couple of pics of the completed job.  Thanks to the help here, I charged the client for the extra work -- a "change order" due to the customers error on the "code" and the extra work involved!!  Thank you alljohnps i cant seem to attach my pics....I will as soon as I can figure it outLast edited by WoodStoneSteel; 04-30-2007 at 08:25 PM.
Reply:I love those kinds of clients.  Let me guess he probably forgot to mention that he wanted it to meet a certain code when he told you what he wanted?  That's how most of mine work, but I have never had a code issue on a gate as some have stated above....  So did you wind up having to modify it?I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Yes, I added 30 verticle spears and the diamond pattern to strengthen the whole mess.  I added almost 30 lbs to each gate.  The problem is -- The property owner asked me to build a gate to suit his two automotive tenants.  A simple gate right?  If you look through the gate you can see a termite ridden fence to the right of my truck.  To the rear of the property, is a 5 foot block wall... the property is NOT secure and to build a gate that is 7 feet tall topped with spike phenials and 5 inches between the verticles would be fine!  Hell there is 7 inches between the bottom of the gate and the pitched driveway -- at the center.  Then I poured the concrete; set my posts, came back a week later and installed my gates.  When I left the job site I had not only the two tenants standing around grading my work, but all their employees too! Then the property owner added the code concern based on an opinion of one of his buddies!!!  Thats when I saw red and posted this thread!Anyhow -- here are the pics of the finished work...thanks again all!john Attached ImagesLast edited by WoodStoneSteel; 05-01-2007 at 02:03 AM.
Reply:Looks good, is he satisfied yet?DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:yes and I have been paid
Reply:Looks good.  The customer is happy, you have been paid, the job is done.   btw, the 4" spacing requirement is not for child/toddler retention (as Sandy in California mentioned above     ), but it is to prevent them from getting their heads stuck in the fence/gate/whatever.  Codes for enclosures around pools have other restrictions, that are more restrictive.Next OSHA is going to say that the orange plastic rebar mushroom-caps will have to be installed on all fence verticals.  After all, if someone is working on the adjacent roofs and their OSHA fall-restraint harnesses fail (or they aren't wearing one) and they land on top of the spear finials on top of the gate, they could be impaled.  And there's probably an OSHA study that falls are dangerous because the ground is hard, so all hard ground surfaces have to be covered with giant cushiony airbags (like stunt men/women use for falls from heights).  note: this paragraph is (mostly) tongue-in-cheek, this note is for the humor or sarcasm impaired.