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This thought came into my head recently as a side note in another discussion here. I posted it over on Millerwelds.com as well, to see what they have to say about it. Thought I would get a discussion going about it over here on Welding Web too, since some of us here have these machines as well.I have the Millermatic Reach wire feeder on my Millermatic 350P mig. It connects to the same 10-pin connector I use with my Spoolmatic 15A spool gun. The 350P's gun choice display says 'spool gun' any time the Reach is in use.I also use my Spoolmatic with my XMT, by connecting the WC24 controller between the XMT and Spoolmatic, which is the normal way to do it. The WC24 changes the XMT's 24vac output to 24vdc (actually 0-30vdc) so the spool gun can run, as well as provides a wire drive accleration rate adjustment and a wire feed speed range adjustment for the spool gun.The wire feed speed adjustment on both the Spoolmatic and Reach feeder are made at the accessory (gun or feeder) for both. The voltage adjustment on both are made at the parent (power source). The only difference between the connections of the Reach to Millermatic and the Spoolmatic/WC24 to other 14-pin machine is the Reach also uses a seperate wire connected to the work lead, like a VS feeder.I am thinking it may be possible to run a Reach feeder from an XMT or Trailblazer, or any other 14-pin Miller power source, by connecting the WC24 between them, as if the Reach were a Spoolmatic. Here's why...My 350P, for all practical purposes, treats the Reach as if it were a Spoolmatic. The 350P doesn't know what machine is on other end of it's 10-pin connector. I tell the 350P 'spool gun' in the menu and the Reach operates as it is designed to. My 350P was made 2 years before the Reach was invented, so I know there's nothing special inside the 350P that's specific to the Reach feeder. I'm thinking my XMT with my WC24 would operate the Reach. If the XMT can do it, any 14-pin Miller would also....What do ya'll have to say about this???MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I didn't look up the info on all the individual machines but your logic makes perfect sense to me. The only basic difference I see between the Reach and Spoolmatic is the packaging.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Exactly, Duane. I'm sure Miller's official answer will be 'no, it will not work', like they told me when I came up with the idea to convert my XR15A gun into a Spoolmatic 15A, by simply swapping the wire conduit for the spool holder assembly parts. They tried to tell me the guns were 'different' inside and not compatible with cross-use and I would have to buy a Spoolmatic if I wanted a spool gun. Their electrical schematics didn't agree with what they were saying though, all the internals are the same. Of course, I did the conversion and the gun has been working fine as a spool gun for 2 years now. Soon after I posted about the conversion success, Miller started offering the spool holder assembly as one part number for use on XR pistol guns, listed as an accessory right on the XR gun accessory page. Funny how that goes...Last edited by DesertRider33; 06-06-2010 at 11:30 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Yup, sure is funny some times. Although I would have to think it was more a matter of who you just happened to be talking to that day as I don't see Miller making those kind of technical mis-cues on a regular basis.Somewhat like saying a Spoolmatic 3 won't work on a first generation MM200 without the $100 special order adapter cord when a simple $15 plug change on the SM3 does the same thing. So what if the MM200 DC supply power goes thru the SM3 board mounted rectifier. But then, that wasn't the Miller folks that said it couldn't be done but rather an independent 'tech' who shall remain nameless.And then there's the LWS telling Felon a wire feeder wouldn't work on a MM200 because he asked his lws dude and he said "you cant put a wire feeder on your 200 its not a suitcase welder" http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38077. Well last I looked, a suitcase welder (feeder) is just a wire feeder in a . . . suitcase.Got the SNs on all those units in question?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Here are the schematics relating to my specific year/model/serial machines.MM350P, owner's manual- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1327x_mil.pdfMM350P, parts manual- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/t1327l_pt_mil.pdfXMT 304 CC/CV- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2208p_mil.pdfMillermatic Reach- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o244671a_mil.pdfWC24- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o2805d_mil.pdfXR15A- http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o1581s_mil.pdfMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:DR, In reviewing all the schematics (plus a couple others) I can't see any reason why it won't work as you've described. I've stated it before, there's a reason Miller has standardized on the 14-pin and 10-pin connectors.Last edited by duaneb55; 06-06-2010 at 08:00 PM.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Thanks Duane, that makes sense. I think the way it works is it uses the dc+ signal from the 10-pin connector that normally powers the spool gun drive motor (connection RC1-8) to trigger a relay that then uses the arc voltage from the work cable connection (RC2-6), to provide the main power for the feed motor, which is similar to a VS feeder using arc voltage to power the motor, except controlled through the 10-pin. That is the only explanation I can come up with as to why Miller had to include the extra wire connection to the work cable instead of relying solely on the 10-pin connector to run the feeder, as they do on the spool guns. What Cruizer said over on Miller makes sense, the WC24 wouldn't have enough juice on it's 10-pin outlet to power the bigger feed motor of the feeder by itself. As merely a signal source to a relay though, it would work without over taxing the WC24, or the motor power circuit that serves the 10-pin connector on my 350P. I haven't taken the feeder apart to look at the circuit board and see if there is a relay or something to that effect that on there, so it's just a guess at this point.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Oops, in my other post above, I accidentally listed the owner's manual for my Optima pulser instead of the WC24. The correct schematic for the WC24 is... http://www.millerwelds.com/om/o181712e_mil.pdfMM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Or it could be a matter of using the normal varying DC motor voltage to to control the weld power voltage to the Reach wire feed motor thru the Reach control board circuit. Otherwise, the Reach control board would have to give the WC-24 a 'maximum speed' signal thru the 10-pin pot circuits to get full motor voltage from the WC-24 to activate a relay although I would sooner think it would be a switch transistor.And if the Reach is truely a VS unit in a standard wire feeder clothing just think of the application possibilities. And yes, I caught the manual 'switch' but already have the WC-24.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:I'm thinking it appears to be a hybrid, combination of both arc-powered and remote-control. It appears to operate like a remote control feeder in all respects aside from where it gets the power to drive the feed motor, which appears to be more like a VS. The potentiometer on the feeder tells the power source how much voltage to send to the feed motor circuit, or in this case, maybe that signal goes to the switching transistor you talked about, where it picks up power from the arc voltage to actually drive the feed motor. All this is my own conjecture at this point though.Adjusting the wire feed speed control on the Reach changes the value of the wire speed display on the 350P, as does the Spoolmatic when connected to the 350P. The wire speed setting is key to the operation of the pulsing program, as that is how the synergic pulser knows how to set the voltage output to the arc. Adjusting the arc length control on the pulser trims the arc voltage to allow for a stiffer or softer arc and resulting wetter or faster freezing puddle, but the arc voltage is based primarily on the wire speed setting selected on the feeder or spool gun.Last edited by DesertRider33; 06-06-2010 at 10:06 PM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op |
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发表于 2021-9-1 00:31:27