buying a welder need help

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I am a tree farmer who constantly takes my equipment to the local welder who has recently closed his doors.  I've always wanted to weld but just didn't want to take business away from my welder.  now i have no choice but to learn,  I just need a welding machine that can handle farm equipment.  My father is a pipefitter/welder by trade.  He is old school, advising me to get a stick/arc welder, "thats all you need" he says.  A friend of mine owns a fabrication shop 80 miles away and advises me to purchase a mig welder, "they are easier to learn and produce cleaner welds no matter how bad you are, than arc"   AC vs. DC?  I need advice.  Thanks.
Reply:I would probably also recommend stick.  You can weld outside on equipment too large to fit in your shop.  If you get an engine drive you can bring the welder to the broken equipment rather than try to limp something home.Yes mig will give you nicer looking welds.  You won't be able to weld outside with any amount of wind (yeah you can use flux core, but you lose your pretty gas shielded appearance).  I wouldn't think appearance would be that big of an issue on farm equipment anyway.  You can buy a engine drive that will run wire, but you'll have to buy the welder (I haven't seen an engine drive that doesn't do stick) then you have to buy a feeder, bottle, regulator, etc, etc.  This setup will be  significantly more expensive than stick alone.The downside of stick is there is more skill required, but it sounds like you might have an expert available to help you learn.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:Both statements as far as they go are true. To compare machines you need to be sure you are comparing apples to apples. Even a cheap AC buzz box like a lincoln Tombstone will outperform small 110v migs for this stuff. To get a comperable mig you need to be looking at a 220v mig with at least 180-200 amp output. That puts the mig at probably 2X the cost of a stick machine that will do the same stuff.Stick is better at handling dirt, grease, paint, rust etc than mig. Also unless you run fluxcore "mig" wire you pretty much have to work indoors. Most people tend to pick up "mig" faster than stick usually, but "mig" is notorious for making pretty looking welds that have no penetration, especially with guys that really don't know how to set the machine properly and run at too low an amps for what they are welding.I'd  agree with your dad that a stick machine is probably more useful, unless you need to weld thin steel. I'd also suggest you look into a class of some sort to learn the basics. Either get your dad to show you whats what or take a night class at a community college or local tech school. There's more to most equipment repairs than just putting hot metal down as well. You need to understand what broke and why most times or it will just break again..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i work in the outdoors 95% of the time and we use both wire and stick i prefer stick over wire it just takes so long to set up your wind breaks for wire with stick you can string your leads out and get to work but if you are inside all the time wire will faster but in my opion stick makes a better weld for strenth there are a lot of good stick machines out there dont go with the cheapest look for a middle of the road machine you can get a smaller machine gas or dieasel  and add a wire unit to it and some you can tig with to hope some of this will helpsa200 mo heat mo rod mo money
Reply:you might look at the shop, sell, trade forum and see if there is something that might interest you i have my machine on theresa200 mo heat mo rod mo money
Reply:If your Father can weld, it's an easy choice.Engine Drive stick welder. Put it on a trailer and haul it where you need it.Can also use a generator should you need to.You can pick them up used for as little as 1k, and in good condition for 2k.Have your father give you a crash course on running a e7018 electrode and you should be good.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:the mm211 is on sale cyberweld has itfor $970.00 and you get $100 cash backand a free spoolgun
Reply:Bobcat and a Millermatic 211.  That will cover you in just about any situation you would run into on a farm.  You have the weld-anywhere portability and generator power output as well as the heavy welding output of the Bobcat on DC stick for the thick stuff and the finesse and convenience of the 211 on mig/flux with small wire for the lighter stuff.  That will cover just about anything you would need to do on a farm.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:You might want to swing by the local weld shop you were using. If he's closing up he might have some equipment he wants to let go.I do a lot of farm type welding also. If you do go with a mig I wouldn't go less than the 180 class machine. An engine driven stick is very useful on the farm. Take it where you need it and also acts as a generator for other back forty projects. If you really want to it'll run a mig unit also.For myself I prefer a good stick welder. On the farm, "gorilla" welds count...ugly but strong. And I haven't found anything here that a mig can do that the stick won't.AlA man is judged by what's between his legs...always ride a good horseMiller DialArc HFLincoln Classic 300DThermal Arc 181iPowermax 45Scotchman Ironworker(2) BridgeportsOkomota Surface GrinderAutoCAD 2010
Reply:go to miller.com they have a engine driven wirefeed that can also be pluged in to the shop as well its called the rennagade but every one is right a portable stick machine will suit you fine on the farm  the lincoln rangers are good they are small and have a good gennerator and will power 110v tools as well as most 220v things you have like pumps and such in case the power goes outLincoln Pro Core 125Lincolin sp 100Miller Big 40Lincoln Idealarc SP250miller matic 212http://www.facebook.com/hdwelding?sk=wallwww.hdweldingbeds.com
Reply:i dont think they sell the rennagade any moregreat idea but its not in there 2010 catalog
Reply:Yeah the Renegade was a short-lived product for Miller.  Good idea, but limited market for it and maybe too high a price point for the target market.  Considering a seperate 5KW generator and 180 amp mig cost alot less than the Renegade and are both more versatile for other uses seperately, I can see how the Renegade failed to sell well.   If they had made it constant-current and constant-voltage, so it could be used for both stick and mig, it may have had more appeal.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:tree farmer:big caveat: I am no pro. I am a shade tree welder.i have a bobcat 250 and a lincoln pro mig 180 (the "tapped" one you see at lowes/home depot) and have had real good luck with them. A generator driven stick welder and a little mig welder seems to be a real win for me.In terms of "heavy duty" factors... the bobcat has a 100% duty cycle rating at 250 amp. The wire welder has a 30% duty cycle. This is a winning mix, as most of the MIG work I do is more intermittent and the lower duty cycle works well for me. The bobcat is capable of the heaviest welding I encounter, and lots of it. (I am convinced it can work a lot harder than I can...)i often use the bobcat to power the lincoln, and the bobcat pulls that load like its not there. I can run all of my shop tools easily. My drill press actually run better on the bobcat than it does on the wiring in my shop. (yes. wiring in there is that bad.)However, if you need to have "more or bigger" wire welding capabilities there are good options out there. Arguably, I could have spent a little more when I got the bobcat and ended up with a trailblazer. It supports MIG directly, and also has a three phase welding generator. The trailblazer can support one of the "Reach" model wire feeders, as well as stick welding.hope this helps.
Reply:The Trailblazer doesn't work with the Millermatic Reach wire feeder.  The Reach is made only to work with Millermatic 212, 251, 252 and 350/350P model mig machines, which have the 10-pin spool gun connector with 24vdc output for the spool guns and Reach feeder.The Trailblazer can and does work directly with Suitcase RC and VS wire feeders.  The Bobcat can and does work directly with the Suitcase VS feeders only, but not with the RC's at all and not directly with the spool guns.  A spool gun can be used with the Bobcat if you also have the correct control box (WC115A with contactor for the Spoolmatic 15/30 A/W models, or SGA100C for the Spoolmate 3xxx series).   The Trailblazer has the necessary internal contactor and 14-pin outlet with 24vac output to allow direct use of the RC feeders.  Spoolmatic spool guns require use the WC24 controller with the Trailblazer and all other Miller engine drives with 14-pin connection, as well as XMT's, since the Spoolmatic runs on 24vdc and the 14-pin connector provides 24vac not dc.  The WC24 changes the ac output to dc and also adds wire drive starting rate and overall wire speed range adjustments for the spool gun.This would need a whole seperate discussion, but I have a suspicion that a Reach wire feeder could be run from a Miller machine with 14-pin connector, if used with a WC24 controller, since it does run from the same 10-pin connector the Spoolmatics run from and my 350P treats the Reach feeder as if it was a spool gun.  The gun choice on the display when the Reach is in use says 'spool gun'....Last edited by DesertRider33; 06-06-2010 at 10:02 AM.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Desert Fox:Good catch. I mean RC, reach came out. personal note: I have been drooling for some time when I imagine finding the right deal on an LN25 or 12vs that I could hook up to my bobcat.
Reply:I see deals all the time on used LN25's and 12VS's.   The 8VS's and 8/12 RC's are much harder to find used than the others, but I did find a nice used 8VS with Iron Mate gun for $500.  Bought it and it was stolen from the truck within 2 days, replaced it with an 8RC, but wish I had bought the 12RC instead.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Bobcat and a Millermatic 211.  That will cover you in just about any situation you would run into on a farm.  You have the weld-anywhere portability and generator power output as well as the heavy welding output of the Bobcat on DC stick for the thick stuff and the finesse and convenience of the 211 on mig/flux with small wire for the lighter stuff.  That will cover just about anything you would need to do on a farm.
Reply:and yes, buy a stick macine for all the reasons already statedlincoln weld pak 100 hdlincoln ranger 225gxt ac/dcoxy/acetylenepuroxcw202 victor fc100harris model 85harrismodel 16oxweld w24roxweld w17