New Welder Question.

admin

I have been wanting a new welder for some time now and for Father's day, what do you know, I received one.  It is a Harbor Freight model 151, which as you might know, is the 220v model.  Now it seems from spending some time reading  here that the HF models are not held in high regard, so I have several questions.I have never had a real need for a welder in the past, so at least at this point I am very much a newby and would use it only as a hobbyist.  Anyway where I going is that I went down and looked at a Hobart Handler 140 the other day.  Seems to be a well built machine and it's "Made In The USA".  NOT China!  There seems to be quit a few that seem to like the machine along with those who feel a 110v machine is not enough.  The opinion seems to be that a 220v is superior to a 110v machine, if I understand correctly. My question is this, would the lower quality of the 220v HF machine be any better or worse as compared to the 110v Handler 140?I know that there are better machines out there, but my resources can really only allow the cost of the Handler 140 at the most.Hope this question is not to far off in left field and I appreciate your suggestions and help!Lon
Reply:It all depends on what you want to weld.  If you're welding up trailers or structural stuff the 110v would be too small.  If you just want to weld up wheel barrows and body panels up to about 1/8" the hobart will be fine.  Seeing as how you never had a welder before I wouldn't think you're going to just jump into it and think you're going to weld up a big flatbed trailer or something.  The hobart machines are not bad at all, if you do some research you'll find tons of good reviews.  I almost bought one but I decided to go used so I could get a miller 135.  I found, after about a weekend that it was too small, but I knew it was going to be and planned on buying a TIG/Stick machine as well.  I also didn't have the learning curve you will since I already knew how to weld.  If you want to go with stick (which is a good choice) you could always look into the Lincolns and Millers - they're probably cheaper than 110v MIG too.  The other good thing is it will force you to learn more about welding, methods, and metallurgy.  Lastly - remember that with whatever welder you get, you'll end up wanting/needing a ton of other tools to support it.  Angle grinders, clamps, consumables, etc etc etc.  I think I have more money in the tools to support the welding habit than I do into my two welders.  Plus, steel is expensive.  Oh, and speaking of, with any one of those welders above you'll be limited to steel.  If you want to weld aluminum it's a whole new ball of wax.  Good luck, prepare for an addiction.Millermatic 135Syncrowave 250
Reply:I would stay with the 220v Harbor Freight model rather than down grade to a 110v mig of any brand.  The HF model may not be the best quality, but as long as it burns the wire and feeds it into the weld, you will be able to make descent welds with it with some practice and knowledge about the process.   Besides, it was a gift from those who love you and you should keep it for that reason alone.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:As said above, it depends what you want to weld. I usually recomend a good 220v machine for most to start with. In the long run it will give you more options than starting with a small 110v unit. Small 110v units are good for sheet metal to 1/8" max at best. The good name brand 220v machines will go from sheet metal thru 3/8"+ no problem. You will find that the Hobart welds nicer than most import units. The feed will be more consistant and it will have a better arc. The big problem with the import units is quality control. some are good, some are horrible and some so so. There's no way to know what you will get, and not having a lot of experience it may be tough to tell your issues from ones that are caused by the machine. If you read thru a few threads where guys have upgraded to Miller MM211's from cheap units almost all comment on how much nicer the Miller welds compared to their previous machine. A good bit of that is the extra power, as well as the consistancy of the machine.The last big issue with imports are parts availibility. What happens in 2 or 3 years if it breaks? HF changes models almost over night as they switch factories where they get their machines from. Will you be able to get parts? I'll tell you right now almost no repair center will want to try to work on one. PArt of it is almost no one will want to spend the labor cost on what was a cheap machine to fix it. The second problem is that there is no manual or parts available to fix the machine, so why bother to mess with something that even if they find the problem, they can't fix it. You'll find thread after thread on "How do I repair my HF model XXXXX machine?" here. Or DIY mods to fix issues that usually don't exist with better machines.To me for the kind of money you are looking at, it's an investment. If you buy a good name brand machine, it will last a long time and be serviceable for years to come with a company that stands behind it. If you buy the cheap machine, expect that it's disposable. When it breaks you just toss it and buy a new machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Your place already set-up for 220? Hopefully so since it was a gift. Find a LWS (local welding shop) & make friends. If they aren't, find a new one. Practice with quality wire from LWS, you'll only help yourself in the learning process. Welcome to the club.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWTo me for the kind of money you are looking at, it's an investment. If you buy a good name brand machine, it will last a long time and be serviceable for years to come with a company that stands behind it. If you buy the cheap machine, expect that it's disposable. When it breaks you just toss it and buy a new machine.
Reply:Happy Fathers Day!Give it a go, don't expect to please yourself quickly (which would be true with any brand welder starting out).Don't forget to post your projects up for some help if you need to.Matt
Reply:You know the old saying.............."Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" Use it, learn on it, and enjoy it.It's more welder than you had a week ago"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:The HF 151 has a listed amperage output range of 30 -120 amps. The listed amperage range for the HH 140 is 25 -140 amps. Keep in mind though to get a 140 amps out of the HH 140  is going to require running a self-shielded fluxcore wire. Nothing wrong with this in my opinion because the HH 140 runs this type of wire very well. The duty cycle is similar on both units.I suspect the HH 140 is the better built unit. Based on 151 modification threads I read on this forum, I suspect the out of the box, the HH 140 produces better arc quality.Bewteen the HF 151 and the HH 140, I'd go with the HH 140.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I would stick with the HF 151 for now. It was a gift so it does not owe you anything. Use it, learn with it, see if you even enjoy welding. Rather than spend extra money to have two machines that do essentially the same thing, spend the money on wire, gas, practice metal, and all the other tools that you will need to have. Then if you love welding and need something bigger, or the HF 151 breaks down, sell it and move up to a bigger unit like a Miller 252. Besides, whoever bought you that welder would be happy to see you use it rather than throw it aside and buy a differant one right away. Best of luck to you!IAMAW Local 330Airco 300 AC/DC HeliwelderAirco Dip-Pak 200 with Profax spool gunPowr-Kraft AC225Everlast PowerArc 200stBuffalo Forge No.21 drill pressSpeedglas 9100xxAirco, Oxweld, Purox, Victor torchesLincoln Ranger 8
Reply:I kinda agree with 1/2 here, keep it so you don't insult the giver.  In all reality, not to insult you, but you probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the HF and Hobart; not right now anyways.   But I would change the ground cable to a larger gauge and improve the ground clamp.  Along with using quality wire.And yea, it is addictingLincoln SA 200Esab Caddy 160Thermal Arc 201TSMiller Dialarc HFI don't like making plans for the day because then the word "premeditated" gets thrown around the courtroom....
Reply:Hey guy's, I really appreciate your input and feedback.  dubl_t, no insults take.  You are likely correct in that I may very well not be able to tell a difference at this point.I am leaning towards keeping the HF 151 and maybe trying some of the mods listed here.  As several have said, it was a gift and I should just use it to learn and then go from there.  If I find I really like it, then I can make a move or watch for a good used machine.  I do currently have 220v in my garage, but will need to come up with something for an extension cord.  Any thoughts on that?  I will likely just build one up.Thanks again,Lon
Reply:Look at this thread for ideas on the cord.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...extension+cord.No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan