Replacing leads on an Arc/Stick welder?

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Getting ready to replace the leads on my new to me Lincoln 225/125 AC/DC "Tombstone"It came with 4/0 x about 8' leads, way to short for practical purposes!If I was to go say 25' or 50' on each side, what in your opinion would be practical for the wire size?I know I should probably go to a 2/0 wire for 25', or would 4/0 do and would 2/0 be good for up to 50' ?Your opinions?I know there will be those that will say "I wouldn't use anything less than 0000000000/0"Please, lets keep it practical, I really don't want to spend $10,000.00 on 50' of wire!Thanks!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:4-0 is thicker than 2-0.  Unless you're talking about #4 versus #2, then #2 is thicker than #4.It goes like this, in order of increasing thickness, #8 being the smaller--  #8, #6, #4, #2, 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 4-0, 6-0.   There are many other sizes smaller and probly some in between but you get the idea...2-0 will be plenty thick for your 50-foot per side run and allow you to extend beyond that in the future.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider334-0 is thicker than 2-0.  Unless you're talking about #4 versus #2, then #2 is thicker than #4.It goes like this, in order of increasing thickness, #8 being the smaller--  #8, #6, #4, #2, 0-0, 1-0, 2-0, 4-0, 6-0.   There are many other sizes smaller and probly some in between but you get the idea...2-0 will be plenty thick for your 50-foot per side run and allow you to extend beyond that in the future.
Reply:Ken,You probably are talking about 4 gauge, not 4-0 gauge.Most tombstones came with relatively short leads and small diameter leads.   You may step it up to #1 and get satisfactory results.   I have 3-0 leads on my portable...I can barely drag them because they "run" together like a pair of jumper cables.  I only seperate them out about 10 foot from the end, then I run a removable whip of #1 gauge from there for the stinger of about 30 foot which is still plenty of "lighter" duty cable to play with.Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:Lugweld!Do you use those Tweco disconnects on yours?#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Yes..Esab Migmaster 250Lincoln SA 200Lincoln Ranger 8Smith Oxy Fuel setupEverlast PowerPlasma 80Everlast Power iMIG 160Everlast Power iMIG 205 Everlast Power iMIG 140EEverlast PowerARC 300Everlast PowerARC 140STEverlast PowerTIG 255EXT
Reply:I use a variety of wire sizes. I took the leads off my old Thunderbolt and added short leads with tweco connectors on them to match the leads I picked up. Most of the leads I set up at 25' lengths of 2/0 with tweco connectors and I can add extras as needed, rather than drag 50' + around. I use the original 2 or 4 guage 10' leads on the ends with the clamps and stingers because they are more flexible and easier to use.I can also use those leads with my Syncrowave. I just had to get the dinse to tweco adapters or build short leads with the different ends.
Reply:Thanks guy's!I am leaning toward the Tweco style plug ends!Lenco also makes a set of Miller type, with a set of panel mount type, I could add those to the front of the welder, and then make up a few sets of leads like DSW suggests, and being able to unplug them completely would be a plus, as in less space used during storage!Here's a Lenco listing for the plugs and panel mounts! Attached Images#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:As mentioned in different words, the 'correct' size cable to use depends on the length of the cable AND on the amperage that the cable has to carry.More amps used = bigger cable diameter neededLonger length cable = bigger cable diameter neededLong cable and big amps = $$$ for long big diameter cablesDetermine how far you want to be able to reach with your welding cable (and how much $$$ you want to spend to reach that far) and then pick the appropriate gauge of wire to do that.Good hint/tip to not necessarily just have one l-o-n-g length of cable, you can put connectors on each end of the cables and connect them as needed to get the length you need for the job.If your driveway/shop is only 25 ft in the biggest dimension (ie the farthest distance from the plugged in machine to/around a workpiece is not farther than 25 ft), then there's really no reason to get 100 ft of cable!  Etc, etc, etc.For that machine and small distances (100 ft total cable length (50 ft work lead and 50 ft 'ground' lead = 100 ft of cable)), you could use #4 AWG if you are mostly using lower amperage ranges (100-150 amps or so) and #2 AWG if you are cranking the amps up to 200 amps or so.http://www.awcwire.com/ProductSpec.a...=Welding-CableAlso good hint/tip on having the last 10 ft or so of the stinger cable as a lighter weight and more flexible #2 or #4 section, especially if the long 'main' cable length is some big heavy cable.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Your are getting alot of good information on cable size from the troops, but there is one big item to consider.  Your equipment.  That lincoln does not have the voltage to handle more than 2/0 cable at 25ft without reducing the max output and life of the equipment.
Reply:OK!Final thoughts!I am going to get 2 of the Lenco LDM-50 female panel mount connectors and mount those to the welder, I will make 2 sets of 25' each for work and electrode leads using 0/0 wire with connectors attached at each end and reuse the #4 wire that came with the machine as lead ends with connectors at their ends!I already have an extension cord made from 10/3 I think its AWG "heavy wire thats bigger around than my thumb" that is 65' long and it is hardwired to the electrical panel, that will get me at least 100 feet away from the shop if the need arises.Sound, sound to all you?#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay DubyaYour are getting alot of good information on cable size from the troops, but there is one big item to consider.  Your equipment.  That lincoln does not have the voltage to handle more than 2/0 cable at 25ft without reducing the max output and life of the equipment.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay DubyaYour are getting alot of good information on cable size from the troops, but there is one big item to consider.  Your equipment.  That lincoln does not have the voltage to handle more than 2/0 cable at 25ft without reducing the max output and life of the equipment.
Reply:If the pictures of the connectors in the attached image in post number 8 are correct, none of those connectors are Tweco.  Those are all Dinse/international connectors.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33If the pictures of the connectors in the attached image in post number 8 are correct, none of those connectors are Tweco.  Those are all Dinse/international connectors.
Reply:www.tweco.comTakes you right to the Thermadyne-Tweco webpages.The Tweco catalog, page 48.  Panel receptacles. Also https://weldingsupply.securesites.co...OR:terms::PL19Found using google using the search terms 'tweco' and 'connector' and 'panel'.#2 AWG for 100 ft total cable length is fine for your machine.  Bigger cable won't hurt the machine, but it may hurt your back picking it up and it will hurt your wallet more than the #2 AWG.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:If you have Dinse connectors on your machine, you can get adaptors that have a Dinse male end to go into the machine and a Tweco female end that allow you to plug in a cable with a male Tweco end.   I use those on my XMT that has Dinse receptacles to plug in my Tweco cables.MoonRise, thanks for the link to the Tweco panel mount receptacles.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Moonrise!Thanks!That is exactly what I needed!I guess I will go ahead with #2 cable, no sense over doing it if I don't need to!DesertRider33Thanks for all your input, its much appreciated!Here's a pic of the welder in question, for those that didn't see it in my post in the projects and pictures section!So far I have made a set of wheels for it, and a handle with cable hooks!Next will be the cable and connector upgrades discussed here!Thanks all!Ken. Attached Images#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Do it just like this and you'll have no problems#4 wire is adequate to carry 180amps at 20% duty cycle.  Thats good enough for up to 5/32 rod.  Don't imagine you'd wanna go to bigger rod anyhow Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Thanks Farmer!I know it doesn't really mean that much but, I was wanting to go for a cleaner look and also keep from having anything dangling from the front when I am not using it, or when I move it around!You are the one who first gave me the idea of putting connectors on mine, I just thought I would take it to the next level!Besides, it bothers me that the leads are just pocked through holes without any kind of protection from chaffing and possibly shorting at the face of the machine, my old tombstone had grommets at least, to protect the cable, Lincoln is getting cheap and wanting to save a few pennies per machine, I guess that would be their reason for not using grommets.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:You could also use a standard heavy cable connector available at regular electrical supply houses.  Neater profile, not so bulky.  I have both on the same machine and haven't had any problems Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI use a variety of wire sizes. I took the leads off my old Thunderbolt and added short leads with tweco connectors on them to match the leads I picked up. Most of the leads I set up at 25' lengths of 2/0 with tweco connectors and I can add extras as needed, rather than drag 50' + around. I use the original 2 or 4 guage 10' leads on the ends with the clamps and stingers because they are more flexible and easier to use.I can also use those leads with my Syncrowave. I just had to get the dinse to tweco adapters or build short leads with the different ends.
Reply:So whats the verdict? #4 AWG is enough for up to 50' on each lead? Do most ppl add the extension to use from the machine to the cables that originally came with the welder bc they are a little bit easier to work with?
Reply:Before you buy your leads both the same length remember you can always use a piece of rod or some kind of metal to make the ground reach something. You would be wise I think to buy your stinger lead about 25 to 30% longer than the ground. If not you will have extra ground cable that never gets used. Just my opinion. Harold
Reply:On that size machine #4 is fine. If you chose to go longer you might want to go to #2.I'm not quite sure what you are asking with the next question. Ken, Samm and I used the disconects on ours. That allows a couple of things. First you can only use the length of cable that you need. You aren't dealing with a 50'+ length to do  something right near the machine. I can however add as many lengths as I need to get to what needs to be welded. I can leave my machine in the garage and weld on my buddy's dump truck in the driveway buy adding 25' leads or on his 15ton trailer in the street by adding another 50' to that for close to 100' on each side. The second benifit is for storage. I don't have to be tripping over 200' of cable wrapped around the machine all the time. All I do is seperate and roll up the leads for storage, leaving the short ends with the stinger and clamp pluged into the machine in case I need to work at the bench right by the door. I'ts also real nice for guys that move the machine around on a small hand cart. Unhook the leads and they aren't getting caught in the wheels all the time when you move the machine.Hope this helped clear things up..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald ReaganShort connections are easier to handle like Doug has stated!But of course.I wound up trading this welder off on a Lincoln G7 engine drive welder before I could properly set up any leads on it!However!On that engine drive, I made a set of 50' 2/0 leads with Tweco connectors and a set of 25' #2 end leads, and am very pleased with it, even though the 50' leads are a bit heavy, they are far from being unmanageable!With that said!I plan on making a couple more sets of 25' 2/0 leads with Tweco connectors for added distance, in case I should ever need it!Ken.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:I'm not quite sure what you are asking with the next question. Ken, Samm and I used the disconects on ours. That allows a couple of things. First you can only use the length of cable that you need. You aren't dealing with a 50'+ length to do something right near the machine. I can however add as many lengths as I need to get to what needs to be welded. I can leave my machine in the garage and weld on my buddy's dump truck in the driveway buy adding 25' leads or on his 15ton trailer in the street by adding another 50' to that for close to 100' on each side.welding electrodes welding wires
Reply:Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to extend the input cord ?The machine could be moved out closer to the work.This is a small machine on wheels.Less walking to turn on/off, make current adjustments.Input cable is much cheaper than welding leads.DSW- I was thinking about putting panel connectors on my T-Bolt XL and plugs on my leads.Before going any further, I wanted to ask you why you used inline type connectors instead.I've seen others done the same way.Why?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:Because by extending the input cord, you diminish the input current, and could possibly starve the machine to a point that it can cause damage to it.It is recommended to keep the input side as short as possible!For your second question, I think I can answer that.Sorry Doug if I am wrong!If your machine does not have panel mounts on it now, you would be modifying it by adding them, and if you want to sell it later on, its better to have it in its original condition, unmolested, not everyone would be happy with any mods that you might do!By all means though, if you do not ever plan on selling it later, I don't see any good reason not to do as you wish and add as many panel mounts as you wish.But I thought that the Thunderbolt XL's already had panel mount connectors on them?OK!I just done some checking, and maybe the newer Thunderbolts don't come with panel mounts on them, it seemed like the older models did have them though!Last edited by Ken Dennis; 07-17-2010 at 11:50 AM.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:If you upsize the input cable to compensate for the length,you would not be starving welder(voltage drop).Upsizing input cable is much cheaper than upsizing welding leads partly because the currentis much  lower on the input side.Second question- my old T-Bolt(crank on top) had jacks in panel.My new XL doesn't.If I did want to sell mine would panel connectors make it less desirable(assuming they wereinstalled in a neat,safe fashion)?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:jpump5, You also have to take into consideration the length/distance that the recepticle is away from the main panel. If you add more length to the circuit now the wiring in the wall maybe inadequet. Plus if you were welding around something large with extented leads you would only need to drag your stinger around.
Reply:I opted for an extension cord for the input and saved alot by doing so.My extension cord and wiring to main panel is #6, oversize according to miller manual.There is no voltage drop problem.But you are right about wire between main panel and welder outlet being part of the equation.Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:If you have a welder like my latest one, you don't have much choice but to add length to the leads!This is a Miller 330 A/BP, it weighs about 960#, it runs on 220 single phase and maxes out at 460 amps on DC, even if I built a cart for it, it wouldn't roll very well on my gravel driveway! Attached ImagesLast edited by Ken Dennis; 07-17-2010 at 10:36 PM.#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!
Reply:Ken-You could build a cart with really big wheels.But seriously,what does a welder that puts out 460 amps,running on220v, 1ph. draw(max)?100A.?Miller a/c-d/c Thunderbolt XLMillermatic 180 Purox O/ASmith Littletorch O/AHobart Champion Elite
Reply:Yeah!And I could build the cart out of a garden tractor frame with engine to motor this thing around! Yep!It eats amps like a bull dog eats meat, it gobbles it down whole.But thats only if you are running way up there in the amps output department!Otherwise, its a sweet running and welding machine!#1. If you don't like what I wrote, or if it offends you, then don't read it!#2. I am living life the way I see fit, if you don't like the way I'M living, tough sh**!