Regarding rust and corrosion

admin

Here is my problem, I am currently rebuilding a railroad passenger car at work  that we found frame cracks in. In this particular scenario, there is a 1/2 inch plate of steel that is riveted to a much larger casting (whether it is steel or cast iron is unknown). 1)The plate on the bottom is cracked.2)Between the two pieces is a layer of rust. 3)I have V'd out the cracked plate 100% through and partially into the casting. What I have near the root of the "V" is that layer of rust and I will not be able to lay a clean bead at the root because of it....)This is a large structural frame and needs to be strong.)Any Ideas how to fully clean out that layer of rust between the two pieces? I cannot separate them because there are several hundred rivets holding them together..so I cannot simpily clean the rust out. I have to work from within the "V" cut into the bottom plate.If more information is required please ask in detail.Thank you.
Reply:Originally Posted by IronSkullHere is my problem, I am currently rebuilding a railroad passenger car at work  that we found frame cracks in. In this particular scenario, there is a 1/2 inch plate of steel that is riveted to a much larger casting (whether it is steel or cast iron is unknown). 1)The plate on the bottom is cracked.2)Between the two pieces is a layer of rust. 3)I have V'd out the cracked plate 100% through and partially into the casting. What I have near the root of the "V" is that layer of rust and I will not be able to lay a clean bead at the root because of it....)This is a large structural frame and needs to be strong.)Any Ideas how to fully clean out that layer of rust between the two pieces? I cannot separate them because there are several hundred rivets holding them together..so I cannot simpily clean the rust out. I have to work from within the "V" cut into the bottom plate.If more information is required please ask in detail.Thank you.
Reply:Can you sandblast it?
Reply:Step one is to KNOW what materials you are dealing with.  The steel could be plain mild steel, or it could be some sort of alloy steel.  But without KNOWING what the material is you really can't determine what welding procedures to use.  Preheat?  Filler?  Post-heat?  Etc, etc, etc.Step two is to KNOW what the design has to do.  If it is structural and it cracked, sometimes you just have to scrap/condemn the item or the part because there are or could be other interrelated structural complications.If the 'steel' 1/2 inch plate was riveted onto the other 'cast' piece, was it put there -because- the cast piece would not or was not or might not be strong enough by itself and thus the 'steel' plate was added?If so, you just found out that even that 'added' 1/2 inch steel plate was not adequate for the job.If the cast piece underneath is in any way a STRUCTURAL item and you have grooved it as you V'd out the steel plate, then the structural integrity of the cast piece is now compromised.I'd say to call the manufacturer and ask them the design/inspection criteria to determine if the item has to be condemned or if it is even repairable.  If it is repairable, then ask them the proper repair procedures and post-repair inspection criteria.Sometimes, all the cleaning and disassembly time is greater than the welding time for a repair.  Just the way it is.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Originally Posted by IronSkull. . .2)Between the two pieces is a layer of rust. . . .Any Ideas how to fully clean out that layer of rust between the two pieces? I cannot separate them because there are several hundred rivets holding them together..so I cannot simply clean the rust out. I have to work from within the "V" cut into the bottom plate.
Reply:Originally Posted by IronSkullHere is my problem, I am currently rebuilding a railroad passenger car at work  that we found frame cracks in. In this particular scenario, there is a 1/2 inch plate of steel that is riveted to a much larger casting (whether it is steel or cast iron is unknown). 1)The plate on the bottom is cracked.2)Between the two pieces is a layer of rust. 3)I have V'd out the cracked plate 100% through and partially into the casting. What I have near the root of the "V" is that layer of rust and I will not be able to lay a clean bead at the root because of it....)This is a large structural frame and needs to be strong.)Any Ideas how to fully clean out that layer of rust between the two pieces? I cannot separate them because there are several hundred rivets holding them together..so I cannot simpily clean the rust out. I have to work from within the "V" cut into the bottom plate.If more information is required please ask in detail.Thank you.
Reply:I think we would all like to see some pictures of the passenger car and the repair job. Pictures of old stuff are usually entertaining.IAMAW Local 330Airco 300 AC/DC HeliwelderAirco Dip-Pak 200 with Profax spool gunPowr-Kraft AC225Everlast PowerArc 200stBuffalo Forge No.21 drill pressSpeedglas 9100xxAirco, Oxweld, Purox, Victor torchesLincoln Ranger 8
Reply:A bit of hammering, and a lot of air pressure can blow out the rust dust. As for getting past it to weld, I'd guess Os-phos would convert the rust, but me thinks you have other issues, and I think the advice to get a spec on the piece, it's agew, the material it is made of, original procedures would be more valuable than anything I can offer you.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:I too am curious about the car, its age, and the intended use of it. Does it have a nameplate, a serial number, or other identifying information attached to it? Pictures of the whole unit and the problem parts would be appreciated. Also, was the casting part of, or rather the whole chassis, and the plate was to allow better mounting of the car body? What gauge for the tracks?I see another possible problem in the future; after you remove the rust, the excessive clearance will allow movement between the casting and the plate, and rivets don't tighten as easily as long bolts with nuts. BTW, is the layer of rust all from the top plate or from both it and the casting? Did the rust partly lead to the cracking of the plate, and is the thinning of the original part(s) significant?
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseStep one is to KNOW what materials you are dealing with.  The steel could be plain mild steel, or it could be some sort of alloy steel.  But without KNOWING what the material is you really can't determine what welding procedures to use.  Preheat?  Filler?  Post-heat?  Etc, etc, etc.Step two is to KNOW what the design has to do.  If it is structural and it cracked, sometimes you just have to scrap/condemn the item or the part because there are or could be other interrelated structural complications.If the 'steel' 1/2 inch plate was riveted onto the other 'cast' piece, was it put there -because- the cast piece would not or was not or might not be strong enough by itself and thus the 'steel' plate was added?If so, you just found out that even that 'added' 1/2 inch steel plate was not adequate for the job.If the cast piece underneath is in any way a STRUCTURAL item and you have grooved it as you V'd out the steel plate, then the structural integrity of the cast piece is now compromised.I'd say to call the manufacturer and ask them the design/inspection criteria to determine if the item has to be condemned or if it is even repairable.  If it is repairable, then ask them the proper repair procedures and post-repair inspection criteria.
Reply:A company to call is JWF - http://www.jwfi.com/They repair railroad cars all the time.Another company to call would be Rescar - Dubois PA.http://www.rescar.com/That's not a tough job, it just takes time and effort.Old railroad cars are restored all the time where I live.These places has prints and procedures for everything..http://www.billspennsyphotos.com/alt...niatashops.htmHere is a forum that you can join that will help you out any way they [email protected]
Reply:Ended up going down a different route. pierced and removed 40 or so rivets and cut out the compromised sections of plate. needle scaled the rusted, pitted casting. A new plate is in the machine shop now getting holes and slots located and cut. Should be fairly uninteresting from here on out. Thank you for all the replies...they where helpful.-IronSkull
Reply:Originally Posted by IronSkullEnded up going down a different route. pierced and removed 40 or so rivets and cut out the compromised sections of plate. needle scaled the rusted, pitted casting. A new plate is in the machine shop now getting holes and slots located and cut. Should be fairly uninteresting from here on out. Thank you for all the replies...they where helpful.-IronSkull