Mig welding sheetmetal examples: Lincoln VS Miller

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How accurate is this Lincoln Advertising for the SP135 PLUS VS MM135 for the pictured examples of the actual welds? Is it the person doing the welding or is it the MIG Machine itself?Looking at it for sheetmetal mig welding only.http://content.lincolnelectric.com/p...ture/av564.pdf Why does the Lincoln SP135 Plus Instructions recommend reversing the polarity to DC(-) when MIG welding 24ga metal VS regular Mig welding setup for polarity DC(+)? This is in the foot notes on the door chart for a recomendation. Would this recommendation about reversing the polarity to DC(-) for the 24 ga welds improve the MM135 results? Or is the Lincoln 135 Plus just this much better at these small gage sheetmetal welds? These pictures seem to show it is."Shown: 24 ga. material welded with .025 solid wire and 75/25 mixed gas."24ga weld picture MM135 from pdf link: 24ga weld picture Lincoln 135 Plus from pdf link: Is it the person doing the welding or is it the MIG Machine itself?"Lincoln exhibits more output resulting in a flatter, more washed-in weld bead at upper end procedures.  Shown: 10 ga. material welded with .030 solid wire and 75/25 mixed gas."10ga weld picture MM135 from pdf link: 10 ga weld picture Lincoln 135 Plus from pdf:Last edited by JustLooking; 01-31-2004 at 01:37 PM.
Reply:it seems like a FORD  or CHEVY  ad
Reply:That is not what the picture shows especailly for the 24gage welding process results.Also asked about reversing the polarity to DC(-) with 24gage sheetmetal having an effect on the welds as pictured for the MM135 shown results.  Any comment besides Ford VS Chevy?That MM135 24 ga weld looks NASTY!
Reply:"Is it the person doing the welding or is it the MIG Machine itself?"Seems like I've said it a few thousand times, so once more ain't gonna hurt; The weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man behind the mask.Advertising is bull****, slinging it against the wall, and hopeing enough sticks to get the customer to buy your brand of crap instead of the other guys crap.If I'm making advertising for Lincoln, where I run red machines against blue machines for comparison photos, you can bet the farm I'll run a better pass with the red machine than I do withthe blue machine.  I damn well know where the paycheck comes from.The red and blue machines are essentially equal in their capability, and your consideration should be weighted far more on the support you'll get from the dealer you buy from than any other factor.  Not to be insulting, but you sound like a complete new guy who is being way too influenced by crap being spewed by competing manufacturers.  You'll be far better served by making a hands on comparison at your local welding supplier than you will be trying to make a decision based on spec sheets.You may also be well served by taking a welding class at the local adult ed facility.Buying a machine needs to based on solid knowledge and a good set of expectations of what the machine can support,  as well as decent dealer support after the bucks hit the counter.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Hi Franz,I was a certified welder at one time: as a Licensed A&P mech.  Nothing that I ever worked on in a time frame of 8 years fell out of the air.   How often do you read some machines have better arc abilities and such?  Not just the WELDOR using the machine because some people state the HH175 is a better machine then the MM175 for the weld qualities.   That probably makes some of the Miller fellas that paid more.  Just like to ask questions to see the opinions.   Did you think the Ford VS Chevy answer was appropiate where specific questions were asked for opinions?I know you think supporting the local dealer is a good thing and that is your choice for your experience.   Just don't get    if someone else doesn't because they don't get the same servicing.   It is just like the Made in USA doesn't bother others for an opinion.What's your opinion on the Reverse Polarity DC(-) for 24ga sheetmetal with a Lincoln 135PLUS VS MM135?LaterP.S. I am not looking for a lecture about what you feel is your perception of my personal status.
Reply:"Did you think the Ford VS Chevy answer was appropiate where specific questions were asked for opinions?"  Given the source, I found it about normal."What's your opinion on the Reverse Polarity DC(-) for 24ga sheetmetal with a Lincoln 135PLUS VS MM135?"I wasn't doing the welding on those test photos, but I have a hunch they probably had to switch polarity to keep from blowing thru metal that was only .002" thicker than the wire they were running.Those pictures are very deceptive, and I have doubt reproducing those results other than under lab conditions would be next to impossible.  Probably took a few hours to get the results the ad man wanted.Add in that cameras in the halds of skilled photographers and darkrooms can produce wonderful illusions, and the entire representation becomes suspect.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Franz,Kind of believe Lincoln made that one because of the Miller Advertising. MM135 comparo:   http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...matic_135.htmlThe amazing part about the Internet never know who you are talking to or what their experience may be.   For all I know someone could be a dealer plugging their goods on different forums when saying Lincolns do better with small gage metal and gas. Welding small gage metal is an art.  TIG is better but am not about to plop down $1800 for bragging rights when a $500+ mig will suit my limited purposes.Often see pople post about Dealers going through the trouble of setting up Migs for them to compare. Have to wonder if any dealers had them setup with Gas to do this type of small gage welding in person comparo.  I've never seen any dealer want to really take it out of the box for a demo with flux core much less offer a gas setup.   Maybe it is just my locals?  Given the gravity of the situation with some Companies being every man for themselve with profit then it tends to rub off.I've also been a machinist in the past. In this changing job market have been FORCED to work in several crafts and trades in the Popular American Way of making a living for losing jobs then finding another.   Even worked in a Machine shop rebuilding CNC machines with OLD MADE IN USA manual milling machines as the primary means of making replacement parts for the Hi-Tech TAIWAN MADE CNC CRAP that was BROKE.  Also used a HH175 mig there and several other neat tools with FORMAL TRAINING.   Had a lot of training both for FORMAL and other wise to keep finding replacement jobs as they were made obsolete or MOVED elsewhere.   Typical American worker.   Felt the sorrow and frustrations of the younger generations.   Have you?  That which does not kill us only serves to make us stronger.  Military saying, "Lead, Follow, or get out of the way."  Done that to and got my share of medals.Since U.S. Manufacturers have shown so Little Loyality when it comes to earning and saving a dollar for their overall profit concerns then why should customers not act the same way for saving a dollar on merchandise products sold by these companies?   It can't be one way without the other unless people are as big a MORON as the Advertising suggests.I am currently a journeyman electrician.  Pun intended.  Ever broke down the word: ASSUME?  ***-U-MELast edited by JustLooking; 01-31-2004 at 08:39 PM.
Reply:thanks justlooking, the comparo dosent get any clearer than that, but what does v.d.c.stand for? the proof is in the puddin,THE POWER OF BLUE IS CERTIANLY  TRUE
Reply:arcdawg,"Aren't you the same person that stated could drop a MM135 off a building and it keep working but yet when you drop a HH135 off a building then it just doesn't work or look like it did before?""Aren't Hobart Migs sold from Northern and HF cheaper in quality then those sold at a Welding Supplier?"
Reply:JUST  you are using my words loosly. #1 I  never dropped my hh135 off of any building#2 the mm135 i used at work did take a beating but it was never by choice, it was a work tool that had to get raised and lowered by rope.
Reply:Justlooking-I think what Franz meant was "Find a dealer that will support YOU after the sale.  NOT "support your local dealer" The dealer that will support YOU is probably the same one who will go through the trouble to set up a welder for you to try.  The dealer who will offer support AFTER the sale may not be the low bidder for your business at this point, but the satisfaction of low price will be forgotten after the agrivation of low Quality wears a blister on your a$$(from repeated motion of your wallet).
Reply:Just, I can't comment a lot on "dealers" in other parts of the country, but I can tell you we have a few in Rochester I wouldn't buy a pack of chewin gum from.  I've never felt welders should have been mass merchandised, but then, I never figured driver's licenses oughta be given out in cerial boxes either.Manufacturers only give a damn about 1 thing, number of units sold, and overall profit.  If you go to ITW's site, they meticulously explain their 80/20 theory of marketing. *0% of the corporate sales come from 20% of the customers, so 80% of all effort should be focused on the 20%.  "That which does not kill us only serves to make us stronger" is actually Nichi, slightly misquoted, and I seem to remember hearing various representations thereof since I was about 5."Lead follow or get out of the way" I never found the need to say since some kid in the path I was taking was already yelling "Make a hole", just possibly because I had 2up and 3 down on my sleve.An interesting concept was tested in the US since the 60s, where people became human units trained to interact with machinery as more or less an extension of the machine.  Those who were willing to become obedient cybourgs went willingly to the slaughter, without a fallback craft to earn a living.   We have them in Rochester in units of thousands.  Kodak, Xerox, Bausch& Lomb have all disgourged them by the thousand, and amazingly, they just can't find jobs paying what they made in the past.  This area has been a center of skilled workers for over a century, and many more semi skilled cybourgs, and today it is rapidly becoming a wasteland.I know a lot of people who are "machinists" whose skill  level ends with being able to load a piece between centers and cut a shaft so they can put it back in a box headed for a mill where another "machinist" will cut a flat and a keyway on the opposing ends.  Today, those people are looking for JOBS, cause somebody who can't even speak English loads those raw peices into a CNC machine, and puts them back in a box headed for shipping.On any given day, I can find a dozen signs in this town seeking to hire machine operators, weldors and a few other trades, none of witch pay the bloated wages of 10 years ago.People who can only perform a limited function can and will be easily replaced.  People who can move the machine in, hook it up, and move it back out when the machine is obsolete will always have work.  People who can produce are in demand today just as they were 20 years back, but it remains a fact that an employee must produce $2.60 for every dollar I pay him, or there will be no job.  I've seen legions of people looking for jobs, and damn few people looking for work.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Franz,Those bloated wages are required for people to buy the $1800+ TIG toyz that they sit in the corner after using a few times beforelosing interest. Got any pics or seen many new toyz from your local area or even on the forums lately? Will those lost - lack of purchases cause and effect price increases for Corporate merchandise?There has always been a problem with distribution of wealth for wages and benefits in this Country between employers and workers. Some Employers would be happy to see almost slave labor return for non-middle class existence. The middle class has always been a rub on the rich.   The Middle class has always been a buffer zone between the poor and rich - poor despise the middle class.I detect a lot of resentment from you towards your fella Countrymen that earned a bargained living from those Companies. Maybe even some jealous points. Hope they saved enough money to survive on when their work was moved Overseas to improve profits for the OVERLY BLOATED CEO's and Blue Chip Stock Holders. We all know that the prices aren't going down with the move for these products. What about the quality?Who can afford them on the rebound & return as more and more jobs go to: "would you like fries with that budget burger?"Do you really believe and expect someone to be able to live in our economy on minimum wages with no benefits?Last question how much were the CEO's of these companies making in a comparo of their workers - you know the people that got them to where they are today and tomorrow?Amazing how this was mis-directed from Lincoln VS Miller with a side track. Would you imagine that Lincoln added in the Serial Numbers for a Potential Legal Reason in that COMPARO chart? I'd bet they did it for a specific reason.Again would the MM135 work better on the 24ga sheetmetal if the polarity was swapped from DC(+) to the DC(-) for a recommendation? Like the Lincoln SP135 PLUS for recommended settings with 24ga sheetmetal.Surely someone has been into one of these elusive dealers that still sets these Migs up for running demo & test samples for gas and small ga sheetmetal MIG welding? Let's read about it unless dealers have become afraid to open the boxes because of losing profits with a demo machine on hand. Most of the local Welding Supply dealers drop ship MOST everything and state, "we can have it in a day or two." It reduces their overhead and they don't even have floor models. NONE have a Lincoln SP135 Plus in stock for my local. Only 1 or two have a Miller MM135 in stock.BTW just for your benefit have gotten local prices quoted that beat Internet Sales but of course then again they are drop shipments and local taxes are due upon receipt. Why not just mail order it yourself from the free shipping places? Save enough money to buy an 80cf cylinder of C25. Whistle. Each and every person for themselves when it comes to survival is my new motto.  That is the World we live in.  You can join it or be a statistical victim because it is the Way of the World NOW.  Don't you want to be the LAST one reaching for the brass ring as the merry go round stops turning for one more ride?Last edited by JustLooking; 02-01-2004 at 12:20 AM.
Reply:Interesting perspective you have, so let me tell you mine;I started workin for a living before there was a minimum wage, knowin I'd never go to college cause the money wasn't there.  I completed my HS education at Edison Technical & Industrial High School, and between classes and commuting, put in 3 years of 12 hour days.  I graduated with a crappy education in academics, an obsolete education in Electric Shop, and a halfassed education in welding, cause the welding shop teacher figured a kid with incentive enough to skip gym and come into welding shop askin to learn deserved a break.I got busted for skipping Gym in the last month of Sr year, and threatened with my diploma being withheld unless I made up the gym classes, 1 hour before and 2 hours after school.  After 2 days of that crap, I cut a deal with the school secretary and a couple of gym teachers who covered for me cause they didn't like the screwin I was takin.I then made damn sure I wouldn't get screwed out of my worthless diploma by assuring the school principle I could be sittin at the hotel bar on Main St filling a reporter from the local paper in on what was really going on in the school, and buyin said reporter a few drinks.When I went over to the Union Hall the school had assured me my job was waiting at, cause of the excellent education I had, I was politely informed the school was full of crap by the BA for Local 86IBEW, and offered an apprenticeship application.  Since I had an uncle in Local 86, I stood a good chance, so I hunted him up.  Long story short, Uncle died, and I didn't get in.I managed to wangle my way into a job nobody wanted learning to rebuild electric motors in a union shop, and pulling stock when there wasn't work in the motor shop.My welding ability and what I did know about being an electrician got me some sweet jobs,  till the shop owner pissed off a couple Local 86 mechanics with the 17 year old kid being smart enough to build a cable pulling machine that they weren't smart enough to operate.  My a$$ went out the door, and I got blackballed at the Local.I went to work climbing poles and hangin wire from them, and read every damn technical book I could get my hands on during lunch while other people played cards.  After a few months, the line foreman gave me the good jobs, cause he knew I could do them without him holding my hand.  I got fed up with the politics there, and found another place to work, where I could learn some new things.  Probably did that 10 times over the next few years, till one cold winter I worked as an electrician in the brewery.After that, Lyndon had that little problem, and I signed on to help[ him out, with a sweet little enlistment deal for me.3 years after that, I was staring at the flycrap festooned ceiling of the hospital at Subic Bay with a busted back, and a head full of things I needed to forget.By the time I got back here, I knew I was a gimp for life, and it didn't take me long to fully understand I had NO employment prospects anyplace I had to pass a physical to get thru the door.  People I went to school with were in sweet jobs at places like Kodak, Taylor Instrument, Delco, Rochester Products, Consolodated Vacuum, Xerox, and a dozen other places in Rochester, and the gimp couldn't even get handed a damn employment aplication.  I was like a kid droolin on the candy store window cause he didn't have a penny to bui a piece of candy.  It would be another 30 years before the Americans with Diasabiltys Act made me employable.I took what I had, and went out and found jobs I could do that people would give me, and made a living for myself.In my entire life, other than about a year, the only health care I ever had was what I paid for out of my pocket, because I never worked for an employer who provided it other than that year.I also never had a retirement plan other than what I paid for myself, or a vacation check.I also never borrowed a dime from a bank, cause I didn't like the way I was treated the time I tried to borrow less money than I had in the damn bank.  I never had a mortgage either, cause I paid cash for the house I live in.I got fed up with buyin new cars & trucks when I found out how much of the price was for UAW health welfare and retirement costs.Every damn thing I own is paid for, and the only bills I have are current to suppliers.  I've never filled out a credit application for any supplier cause I have a reputation in this town, and that's for paying my bills.In the last 30 years, I've put together a few businesses, and all but 1 is now employee owned.  The one that isn't is dead and buried cause the people who worked there didn't want to work, they wanted JOBS.Yea, I'm a hard old fart, and I really don't give a damn about all the people who worked at any of the above named corporations for 20+ years who can now only find part time work wearing an orange apron at Home Desperate, cause they had 20 years of opportunitys I never had, and chose to piss the opportunity away.I also don't give a damn about people who want jobs, my businesses only employ people who want WORK.  It's hard as hell to come to work for me, you have to get hired by the people who are going to work with you, and then recommended by them.I've had people on my payroll tell me how they needed more money  cause their wife was pregnant, and  have had no problem telling them to get a part time job, cause I didn't knock their wife up.  Life is tough, and if you are willing to settle for a job, don't be surprized when some Chinaman takes it away from you.You want an $1800 TIG machine, figure out a way to earn it.  That's how the system works.  I'm damn sick of payin for other peoples bills, food and rent, and so are a lot of other people.If you think you're entitled to lifetime guaranteed employment, with health care and a pension, become a NEA card carrying Union Teacher.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Franz,Do you own stock in Miller?  Heard from Rock?   Remember this with our system setup as it is you are going to be paying a lot more then you realize in the future for those that are broke.  I won't be one of the people getting paid for by you though as a matter of fact will be paying out too.  That's one reason don't like to see people lose their jobs. Do you feel better now?  I knew you were bursting at the seams to share.  Glad to be of help and your story is "A" Typical of people that despise Unions.  You really don't know everything but are entitled to your own opinion from your own experiences.  Just as we all are.PAY Attention:Franz,  don't have to figure out a way to earn a TIG.  Can pay cash tomorrow and not bat an eye lash for the purchase into that now club like status.   What's more know how to actually use one although it has been a few years and TIG's have changed.  Bet it would be like riding a bicycle but really don't have the need for a tig or a bicycle.Thanks for the chat to which you were so desperate to tell the World.   Again feel better?  You must have a low self-esteem for getting pleasure from other's mis-fortune in a gloating way.  We are not that different.     If you don't mind will still wait on some real opinions from someone that has actually tried the MM135 and SP135PLUS Migs on sheetmetal.  Of course they will probably produce results like shown on the pictures above or maybe not.
Reply:Franz, have you by chance heard of Haun Welding supply??StangnetShop Full Of Stuff. Joey
Reply:Haun is a regional outfit that covers the eastern half of NY, but doesn't come west of Syracuse.Appreciation Gains You Recognition-
Reply:Originally posted by JustLooking Franz,[b]Thanks for the chat to which you were so desperate to tell the World.   Again feel better?  You must have a low self-esteem for getting pleasure from other's mis-fortune in a gloating way.  We are not that different.     If you don't mind will still wait on some real opinions from someone that has actually tried the MM135 and SP135PLUS Migs on sheetmetal.  Of course they will probably produce results like shown on the pictures above or maybe not.
Reply:The sheet metal polarity trick. I dont do a lot of sheet metal, is this a common procedure to minimize blow thru? What thickness would be a good time to consider switching, 22 or 24?
Reply:Cutter,Nope.**********Joehobart,Give it a shot and see what you see.  That is the direction wanted this post to go in but sometimes these things must be driven and forced past what is obvious.  Connect the dots for what is obvious and what was not.  MM135 was probably DC(+) for the pictured 24ga sheetmetal weld results while Lincoln SP135Plus was probably DC(-) because the Lincoln Instructions suggest that change in setup for their smallest rated sheetmetal.   The Millers and Hobarts to my knowledge do not make the same change suggestion to DC(-) with 24ga sheetmetal.  Actually the HH135 is only rated down to 22ga by Hobart while the MM135 is rated down to 24ga.Everyone always heads straight to the MAX with their little migs and seldom explore the bottom end.  Know this information is not received well unlike the Master Weldors that weld 20 foot thick metal with their tapped power substations.   Just maybe a rare someone can use it to see a change in results for better or worse since it is not in all instruction manuals as previously mentioned. Something to think about and play with to see if it makes a difference for your own results with both Miller 135 and Hobart 135 migs on the smaller sheetmetal gage.You can take all the classes in the World but until you get to the practice and hands on section you haven't really begun to learn.  That is not mine.  That is Lincoln's with a slight mis-quote.  Last edited by JustLooking; 02-01-2004 at 04:15 PM.
Reply:Cutter,Do you have a point that you'd like to make.  What exactly do you mean by this question:"Are you by chance an MBA?"
Reply:Originally posted by JustLooking Cutter,Do you have a point that you'd like to make.  What exactly do you mean by this question:
Reply:Price of tea in China
Reply:Ford vs Chevy is spot on as is Franz's and other's comments.Gee, give Franze or half the people in hear any other machine and me the MM135 and I can guarantee you their welds will look better.I find it hard to believe that someone would believe advertising like that.
Reply:I don't see any low self esteem, or anything then just someone chatting with his online friends.  Thanks FranzJust looking, you are starting to sound like the guy that would show up on Hofart every couple of months using different id's and such just to spark conversation.I guess it's free therapy?
Reply:I'm getting a good chuckle. I like to read certain things where grown men get online and act younger than me . Haha I'm just playing around. Anyway, I've never welded thinner than 20 ga. using the MIG process. I don't remember the settings I was using, but on 18 ga. with the school's Lincoln Powerwave 455's, I was gettin my best welds at about 18 volts and around 70-80 amps if I remember right. I know it isn't exactly what you asked, but maybe will show that you don't really need over 135 amps...Who knows!  By the way, I saved up some money, and on top of that, asked for money to go towards buying a GTAW machine, and I don't even think about regretting that being the only present I'll get for a while! I LOVE my squarewave, and use it every time my stomach stops hurting enough!Lean mean TIG weldin' machineSquarewave 175
Reply:Most people on these forums are only interested in burning on bigger stock.  There are a few that need the bottom end to work as advertised for the material gages.I am not so naive as to believe ALL The Advertising and that even includes Labels such as Made in USA.  If you read the advertising then dig into setup recommendations from the Manufacturer might see some of it is Machine settings.  DC(-) for Lincoln on 24ga but bet the Miller was set to DC(+) because the instructions state DC(+).   How do you think Lincoln set the MM135 up to do that test:  DC(+) or DC(-).   Some people are all to often willing to dispute Advertising without trying, showing, or digging into it to see if there was a possible difference for recommendations.There has been one response to the challenge but unfortunately he did not post results here but he did read about it here.   Have to wonder why Dan didn't use some 24ga with the polarity set to DC(-) to give it a shot.  Almost there.  Go take a look.  http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/...&threadid=5115Is it Hobart or is it Hofart?  The name is one the side. Is there a quality difference between Hobarts sold at Harbor Freight and Northern Tools VS those sold at welding suppliers?   I don't think so but that is a good rumor to spread.  Almost as good as the one for them falling apart for a blanket statement.You haven't seen me make a bad statement about Hobart other then the Made In USA Label which is slowly degrading.   Franz nevers skips an opportunity to float his own boat.  Because he wants to be the Leader of the FLOCK.  Remember those words because he often makes mention of sheep.  Also go back and read this.  I am not now or want to be in the future a member of the Fran's butt sniffing club:P.S. I am not looking for a lecture about what you feel is your perception of my personal status.
Reply:[QUOTE]Originally posted by Franz [B]"Did you think the Ford VS Chevy answer was appropiate where specific questions were asked for opinions?"  Given the source, I found it about normalhey franz you almost got that one by me   but the truth of the matter is advertising is  all about LETS KNOCK THE OTHER GUYS PRODUCTIM NOT ON A SOAP BOX LIKE SOME PEOPLE ON THIS BOARDI NOW THAT I DONT HAVE ALL THE AWNSERS AND EXPERIANCE THAT SOME OF THE OTHERS DO AND THAT IS WHY I AM HERE TO LEARN FROM OTHERS, THATS THE REASON TO HAVE A BOARD LIKE THIS.when you say GIVEN THE SOURCE,I FIND IT ABOUT NORMAL. it just goes to show everyone on the thread WHO YOU REALLY ARE, i feel that ford to chevy was a valid annoligy to the topic of lincoln vs miller.i am amazed that it only took a couple of weeks to ruin this message board, and FRANZ i do enjoy your threads and i am glad tht you share your experiance to others but i think that everone on the board need to tone down the mochessmo
Reply:Most people on these forums are only interested in burning on bigger stock. There are a few that need the bottom end to work as advertised for the material gages.I am not so naive as to believe ALL The Advertising and that even includes Labels such as Made in USA. If you read the advertising then dig into setup recommendations from the Manufacturer might see some of it is Machine settings. DC(-) for Lincoln on 24ga but bet the Miller was set to DC(+) because the instructions state DC(+). How do you think Lincoln set the MM135 up to do that test: DC(+) or DC(-). Some people are all to often willing to dispute Advertising without trying, showing, or digging into it to see if there was a possible difference for recommendations.There has been one response to the challenge but unfortunately he did not post results here but he did read about it here.  Have to wonder why Dan didn't use some 24ga with the polarity set to DC(-) to give it a shot. Almost there. Go take a look. http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard...=&threadid=5115JustLooking, I didn t have any 24 ga., but i did take the time to switch polarity on the machine and try it out on the 22 ga. so that i could pass the results on to you. The arc isn t as stable on DC- as it is when the polarity is set to DC+. Based on my experience with other machines that i ve tried switching the polarity on with solid wire this is normal. By switching the polarity there is a major difference in the machine setting required to achieve 100% penetration on a butt joint. On DC+ was using tap #1 and around 10 on the wire speed dial setting. On DC- I had to step up to tap #2 and around 55 on the wire speed dial setting. The DC- weld beads that I ran looked very similar to the welds that i posted on the Hobart site.BTW, 10 isn t the lowest wire speed dial setting, i think I could have done 24 ga. with the wire speed dial bottomed out on DC+. If I can get my hands on some 24 ga. sometime soon I ll give it a try and let you know.ESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:Dan,Now we are getting somewhere positive whereas negative was an issue.  Pun intended.  Any idea where the actual metered voltage output is running when using the DC(-) on the small gage metal?  Just asking more questions.   Appreciate your time.
Reply:Originally posted by JustLooking Dan,Now we are getting somewhere positive whereas negative was an issue.  Pun intended.
Reply:Cutter,As for the quoted wording you are off base.   Didn't you follow along for the mig setup which could probably be used with your own HH135?  Do you want to learn anything new or different for possibly using you HH135 or not?""POSITIVE"" DC(+)  VS  ""NEGATIVE"" DC(-) on 22ga or smaller with 120 volt MIG.The 120 volt migs are great tools when used within their parameters of intent.   Know the HH135 is a good 120 volt mig.   Examples based on application should be shown for them too. Unless it is only about posting the Big Rigs.   Another note people often talk about quality but isn't that also determined by the actual welding process for examples or didn't you check the link below to compare the pics?Again go to the Hobart Forum and check the pics posted by, Dan because he accepted the challenge?  Found his results interesting and would imagine some other people might too.  Look forward to anything else, Dan has to offer and there might be other people with the same views considering the 700+ viewing hits about this post on this actual forum.  Again check the Hobart forum for the 220+ hits over there.  Hmmmm is someone else interested or not?http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/...&threadid=5115Also see Planet X decided to try some 22ga with his PM255.  Soooo........appreciate the people that are doing these demos because it is potentially helpful to everyone.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...=&threadid=395"I" am not going to take snide remarks from anyone when they are not deserved.  "I" don't do it in day to day life and am not going to start here.   Expecially when they are off base.  If you can't understand that for a view point then it is beyond words.  For the last time am going to try and reel this post back in with what is stated above for appreciation of others.  After that it is up to you and others.Is that Fair or Unfair?Last edited by JustLooking; 02-03-2004 at 01:25 AM.
Reply:Originally posted by JustLooking Cutter,http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/...&threadid=5115Also see Planet X decided to try some 22ga with his PM255.  Soooo........appreciate the people that are doing these demos because it is potentially helpful to everyone.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...=&threadid=395?
Reply:JL,For someone who doesn't take snide remarks in your daily life, you certainly dish enough of it out.  From this one thread alone:      *******************************************Do you feel better now? I knew you were bursting at the seams to share. Glad to be of help and your story is "A" Typical of people that despise Unions. You really don't know everything but are entitled to your own opinion from your own experiences. Just as we all are.PAY Attention:Thanks for the chat to which you were so desperate to tell the World. Again feel better? You must have a low self-esteem for getting pleasure from other's mis-fortune in a gloating way. We are not that different. Franz nevers skips an opportunity to float his own boat. Because he wants to be the Leader of the FLOCK. Remember those words because he often makes mention of sheep. Also go back and read this. I am not now or want to be in the future a member of the Fran's butt sniffing club:"I" am not going to take snide remarks from anyone when they are not deserved. "I" don't do it in day to day life and am not going to start here. Expecially when they are off base. If you can't understand that for a view point then it is beyond words. For the last time am going to try and reel this post back in with what is stated above for appreciation of others. After that it is up to you and others.Is that Fair or Unfair?          ****************************************In other words, if you're going to run off at the mouth like that you may as well be prepared to absorb a few "snide remarks" in your turn.  Franz comes here with considerable credentials;  I haven't figured out what you have going for you other than a this sophmoric snotty attitude and a habit of talking down to everyone else.  If this is truly your last attempt to "reel this post back in", that will surely go over well with me.  Meanwhile don't let me delay you any further in your search for someone who cares.
Reply:Hey Cutter,EWE are a great contributing face on this forum.  EWE have what about 137 Posts to get the Senior Status?  What does the vast majority of those 137 post concern for lending advice and experience about welding?Let's look at your help in another post on this Forum as an example.http://www.weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread...=&threadid=377There is an off topic forum for your post.  For the next 137 post try to make them welding related when outside there.    Think Franz knows who started with the snipes.  Just ask him before you ruin your mouth piece.We can turn this forum into the Off Topic Forum too.  Let's start with things like this: Baby pic of Franz with Cutter.What was really traded in the move to this Forum from Hobart's - Franz's Sheep Farm?   C' ewe.  Hobart is probably reading this Forum and are actually pleased that so many left with their Off Topic Post.  Let's Muck it up real good.Again:Think Franz knows who started with the snipes.  Just ask him before you ruin your mouth piece.Last edited by JustLooking; 02-03-2004 at 12:18 PM.
Reply:Thanks Planet XThis is kind of a fun 'challenge' I am sourcing the mix I need and will be updating my 'sheet metal ' attempts when my ducks are in a row.
Reply:Hey JL lighten up. Your becoming "ANAL" about thisFranz has a right to his opinions based on the school of hard knocks.Maybe your fasciation with sheep has lead to the installation of this sign in your neighborhood Attached ImagesLast edited by fla jim; 02-03-2004 at 12:49 PM.
Reply:Wow. Umm...I have to say, people who argue and throw poo at each other like that should be ashamed. You have a 16 year old kid laughing at the immaturity levels being displayed. I know you all are more mature and smarter than that. Don't make yourselves apear otherwise! I've never seen you all do this before, so be cool again! I'm doing my best not to get into the poo-slinging and judging of one another, so I know if I can do it, you can too! Hopefully no one takes offence to this, but if someone does, I digress, and I'm sorry for those that take this as anything other than contructive critisism. Thanks!Lean mean TIG weldin' machineSquarewave 175
Reply:Fla Jim, I also was going to say, thanks for you light post. Immaturity in the funny manner, is completly okay! A laugh is never a bad thing and good hearted joking is always welcome in my book.Lean mean TIG weldin' machineSquarewave 175
Reply:JimScrew itPorno Shot of Franz and Cutter on a date.
Reply:Ever pick a booger and flick it at your friend?Ever pick your nose?Ever pick your friends nose?You can pick your friends but you should never pick your friends nose.
Reply:Couldn't be.A self respectin Texan wouldn't have nothing to do with no sheep
Reply:Mr Rogers,What is the freakin weather like in your neighborhood?Let's just have a blast O' Possum.
Reply:Cutter had any sex besides with Franz lately?
Reply:U see we can muck it up and since I started this post then it is O'Tay
Reply:Let's act like Morons.  This is much more entertaining.
Reply:Come on in fellas talk about your sheep dogs or whatever.  The water is fine.
Reply:See you too can act like an idiot.  It free and easy to do.
Reply:Who are you going to vote for in this next election?