TIG torch questions

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I am thinking about getting a water cooled torch to supplement my Weldcraft WP-17 air cooled torch.  My Syncrowave 200 welder is rated at 200 amps (20% duty cycle), while the WP-17 is rated for 150 amps at 60% duty cycle.   I was looking at a WP-20 water cooled torch, rated at 250 amps at 100% duty cycle.  I might get a more powerful welder in the future, maybe an XMT-304. Can I use my WP-17 torch at 200 amps, 20% duty cycle?   What about 175 amps at 30% duty cycle?  My guess is yes, but the air cooled torch is going to get pretty hot.How much difference is there between the WP-17 and WP-20?  Are they about the same size and weight?  I have heard that the torches for 300 amps and more are not nice to use, maybe too big and heavy.I know that people love water cooled torches.  Is that basically because they run cooler?  Or is there more to it?I noticed that there are some air cooled torches are rated at more that 150 amps.  The WP-26 is rated at 200 amps at 60% duty cycle.  Is that something that I should look at?Can I get away with just hooking up the torch to city water?  My guess is that I would not use the water cooled torch very often, since most of my TIG welding is below 100 amps.  I am thinking that city water would be cheap and easy.  My local city water is pretty low in minerals.What about rubber hoses vs. plastic hoses?What about a cover for the torch cable?  Should I not worry if it is going to be used infrequently?The ratings I list above are the DC ratings.  I understand that the AC ratings are generally less.I know that I am asking lots of questions.  I did search the forum some, but did not find anything really applicable.  Thanks in advance.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:Wow. Lots of questionsSome answers. Water cooled torches are nimbler. They don't need a big power cord as the water cools the smaller cord. If your not going to use it and only @100amps then the 17 type should be fine. But once you pick up a 20 type torch then you'll feel the diference. But then you'll need a cooler. You can't run a WC torch without water. I have heard people hooking up to a hose. I'm sure it would work. Iv run nothing but water in mine for over a year.  I'd recommend cover for a WC torchGets in a tangle quick without oneLast edited by gordfraser; 10-14-2010 at 10:19 PM.G
Reply:Originally Posted by rafergusonCan I use my WP-17 torch at 200 amps, 20% duty cycle?   What about 175 amps at 30% duty cycle?  My guess is yes, but the air cooled torch is going to get pretty hot.
Reply:DSW, if you go with the 18 instead of the 20, you lose the benefit of the small 20 size torch.  Unless you need the extra heavy duty current capability of the 18, I would recommend the 20 and pony up for the 20 size front end parts.  20 parts are not that much money and very commonly available.  If you don't have a 300 amp or bigger tig, you won't need an 18 torch.  The 20, with 250-amp 100% rating, is plenty of torch for most tig applications.   To the original poster, I agree with the previous 2 replies.  No need to re-type the same thing.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:CK Worldwide makes a 20-series torch, that handles 300amp at 100% duty cycle.  Look for their CK230 torch.  And if you want to treat yourself...look at their super-flex cables.I just bought 2 of them, one with the standard torch angle, and another 180-degree (pencil) design.  Good stuff!_kevin
Reply:I agree, CK's super-flex cables are quite nice.  I have those on my CK20.  I believe my CK20 is 100% at 250 amps.  It's been a few years since I bought it.   They sell the super-flex cable sets in 25' and 50' lengths.  I just got a 50' pedal and will be getting the 50' torch cables and cover, at some future time when I can afford them.  Sometimes 25' is just not enough torch... MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Weld-Tec also makes the 320 Speedway torch which uses 20 Series front end parts and is rated at 310A.Actually prefer the Weld-Tec hose connections better than the Weldcraft.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I've used my 17 at 200A TIG welding thick copper parts.  You get a minute or two, and then its too hot.  20% is WAY optimistic, but 10% should be doable at 200A if that's all you need.
Reply:My friend has a Speedway 20 torch on his TA300.  I've welded with it and It's a very nice torch indeed.  MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:It looks like all of your questions have been answered, but I recommend making a water cooler if you decide to go that route.Miller 330 a/bp water cooledI believe in gun control, I hold my gun with two hands.  If you want to know why, click here.Buy American or bye America.
Reply:Thanks to all.  I can believe that the WP17 is going to get too hot quickly at 200 amps.The only question that I did not see an answer for was the question of rubber vs. plastic hoses.  However, for infrequent use, that may not be important.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:The rubber hoses are much better...  more flexible-- easier to work with--  and they'll last a lot longer.  The WP 20 is by far our most popular water cooled TIG torch, and if you want to do as pinjas suggests and make a water cooler....This article outlines the basics:  http://www.thefabricator.com/article...of-two-welders (and features a former participant of this very board who passed away)  I love the fact that he made his cooler out of an old turkey pan!My boss Jim tells me that for years he only had his torch hooked up to a spigot.  We've got a kit that includes all the fittings if you want to go that route.as far as the difference between the 17 and the 20:WP-17 Series Specifications:--Amperage 150 DCSP maximum, 100% duty cycle--Air-cooled body 70º head--Electrode capacity .020" (.5mm) -- 5/32" (4.0mm)--Torch body weight 6 oz (170g)--Torch length 7 3/4" (196.8mm)--Handle diameter 7/8" (22.2mm)Weldcraft® WP-20 Specifications--Amperage 250 DCSP maximum, 100% duty cycle--Water-cooled body with 70º head angle, standard “wire-tie” type hose connections--Electrode capacity .020" (0.5mm) to 1/8" (3.2mm)--Torch body weight 3 oz. (85g)--Torch length 7" (177.8mm)--Handle diameter 3/4" (19.0mm)--Water flow 1qt./min. (0.946 L/min.)--Maximum pressure 50 psi (3.448 BAR)NOTE:  the body weight of the WP20 is half that of the 17....  and it's a little slimmer (handle diameter)-----------------------Carmen Electrodewww.CarmenElectrode.comand the boss blogs at  www.JoeWelder.comall powered by  www.Arc-Zone.com
Reply:DesertRider33, I just sent you a PM.  I have a set  of 50' SuperFlex cables._kevin
Reply:Karchiba, thanks, I sent you a message.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op