Liability Issues?? any advice?

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Hey Guys,I recently bid a job for a fitness facility to install structural post for the purpose of attaching heavy bags, The post are attached to the roof bar joist in a 20' ceiling. My bid was based on a state certified professional engineers drawing acquired by the facilities management. today they contacted me wanting to reduce the job cost by eliminating some of the cross bracing determined in the drawing. I feel comfortable with an abridged design but by not following the stamped professional engineer's drawing and design will this hang gross liability on me? I'm afraid that having a certified design and doing it differently could fall under negligence. Have any of y'all dealt with this before. Can anyone please offer experienced advice??Miller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:Tell them if they want to change the design, you will build it as long as they re-submit the new design to the engineer and he puts his stamp of approval on it.  No engineering approval, no welding.  It's mostly on your shoulders if you build it to another design besides what's been approved.  For a second opinion, talk it over with your liability insurance company's adjuster.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Hi, Although I can't offer any experienced comments, I can suggest that not sticking to the certified drawing would put you at risk for liability. The reason most engineers go over board in calculations is A) Either it is the right way to do it, and  B) They want to cover their ****  so they don't get sued should something goes wrong. Now you have to ask, if they don't want to get sued then why should you?So if the fitness center wants you to built it out of spec from the certified drawing, then I think that you will be held liable. Get them to supply a drawing from an engineer with the revised modifications approved and then do it,  otherwise walk from the job. They want you to build it and are trying to save costs at your expense. Will the modified structure hold.. possibly, will you sleep well at night.. probably not. Is it worth the stress worrying about it .. most likely not!! Can you afford the liabilty payment in case things go wrong and you get sued ????Miller Auto Invision 456 + S-62 wire feederC6240B1 Gap bed lathe16 ft3 air compressor16 speed pedestal drillHafco BS-912 Bandsaw
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Tell them if they want to change the design, you will build it as long as they re-submit the new design to the engineer and he puts his stamp of approval on it.  No engineering approval, no welding.  It's mostly on your shoulders if you build it to another design besides what's been approved.  For a second opinion, talk it over with your liability insurance company's adjuster.
Reply:Thanks for the info guys. Your opinions for the most part bolstered mine. I hate to walk away from a job, but the risks out weight the reward in this case. No stamp, no weld. ThanksMiller TrailBlazer 251Miller HF-250-1Miller MaxStar 150 STLHyperTherm PowerMax 380 plasmaLincoln PowerMig 180Millermatic 252Miller Diversion 180
Reply:waginI am not much of a welder, except hobby welding, but by profession I am an insurance adjuster, DONT DO IT without revised engineering drawings. If you do and there is a failure I guarantee the engineers will point finger at the discrepancy from their plans and walk away leaving you, the gym will say they asked for the change but it was up to you and they walk away (not really a good lawyer would name all 3 parties and let them fight amongst themselves - you still loose) DONT DO IT, DONT DO IT, get the point
Reply:your transferring liability from the engineer strait to you.    if they re submit and the engineer doesn't approve with they have saved any money than doing it as originally drawn?   im sure the engineer doesn't work for free.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:You do NOT ever-ever-ever-ever-ever not follow the approved signed/stamped plans or drawings.Ever.      Engineering or architect plans might have a mistake in them or there might be some sort of alternate being considered, in which case you flag it and bring it to the attention of the appropriate folks and have THEM correct the errors on the plans/drawings.  And then you continue working to those corrected approved plans/drawings.But you do NOT just change what you build or do (process, materials, procedures, etc) on your own.  You have the plans/drawings corrected or modified and reapproved and THEN you do the work.Because there really isn't enough liability insurance to CYA if you don't follow the approved (signed/stamped) plans/drawings.  If your own insurance carrier even covers that and doesn't just leave you hanging out to dry, so to speak.  Because yes, that would be Negligence and it would be -your- butt on the line if pretty much ANYTHING ever goes wrong with the project.And WTF client goes to the welder/fabricator/contractor and even attempts to change the approved design?  If there are plans, you follow them.  Period.  If the plans need to be changed/corrected (or the client -wants- them changed), then have the plans changed or corrected and then reapproved.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...