I want to weld a rollcage, among other things, give me welder advice.

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I am interested in making my own buggy in the upcoming months. I originally bought a Harbor Frieght EL CHEAPO 90amp arc welder, as well as a 90amp MIG welder. They were both very weak, and didn't penetrate all the way thru 1/4" steel. I then realized I need either a more powerful MIG such as 140amp or higher like 200amp, or get a TIG. I  have limited knowledge on MIG welding and stick, but I know far less about TIG. Everything I've heard about TIG though, is that it takes a while to learn (which isn't a concern for me) and it makes better welds. Im sure everyone has an opinion on this, so I'd like to hear all, everything from advice, to differences in welders, to best prices. Thanks
Reply:well i would recommend the MIG.TIG is an extremely nice weld but takes a considerably longer time to do a weld.i would also feel more confident with the strength of the MIG weld.If you wanted to do TIG,its not that hard on mild steel.if you've ever  oxy-acet. welded,its not that much different.it just involves more control using the foot pedal.TIG also requires a extremely clean area,and the metal must be clean as well.
Reply:If you don't absolutely need a tig then a mig will suit your needs just fine for welding a roll cage. On a side note, even a weak 90 amp welder will weld 1/4" if the joint is prepared and welded properly in multipasses. Just takes alot more time.TiggerAaronHTP Invertig 201w/ CK-20 torch and Bernard ChillerHTP MicroCut 300 plasma cutterLincoln R3S-325 w/ TA 17A Wire FeederVictor Super Range II O/A kitClausing/Colchester 13X40 LatheBridgeport 9X42 Mill
Reply:How much money do you have?The more you spend, the more you get, in terms of convenience, quality, dependability, and so on.You can do everything on a buggy with a stick welder. You can go buy an AC/DC buzz box from Miller or Lincoln, for $300 to  $600, and stick weld everything. It will work, but you will have places you need to grind out and do over again, lots of cleanup. It will take a while to learn how to be a good stick welder. But it is the cheapest way to go. The only welder I had in my shop for 8 years or so was a buzz box- I welded tons of metal with it, literally. Not sexy, not stylish, but it works. Spend more money- get a mig welder. You are right- you need a bigger one- I would get a Millermatic 250 or so, minimum a 200. You need amps to weld metal. Law of Nature. Mig is much quicker, no slag to chip, pretty easy to learn, the electrode doesnt stick, the coating doesnt chip off, its more fun to boot. Also costs about 3 times as much. And you need a tank of sheilding gas, and a regulator. Maybe $1300 to $2000.Tig welding is elegant, fun, strong, works on all metals, and costs a lot of money. Full blown, with all the bells and whistles, with enough amps for that 3/4" aluminum, you are talking around 3 grand. It does take a little longer to learn, although some people are naturals, and some people bang their head against the wall for months.Buy real tools- I recommend Miller of Lincoln, but there's thems who will argue for Esab, Thermal Dynamics, or even HTP. But brand name, industrial qualtity tools are worth every penny you pay for em, and you can always sell em. Often for what you paid, or not much less. People always need em, and the prices just keep going up. Go to a welding supply store, and talk to them. They usually know their stuff, and know what works, and Miller will even finance. Skip Harbor Freight. If you are serious about welding, and are planning on making stuff from metal for your whole life, then eventually you are gonna want all three. Or even get sick in the head, like me, and have 2 complete tig setups, 4 mig welders, a stick welder, a spot welder, 2 plasma cutters, oxy- acetylene, and a huge building full of other tools. Its a disease, and there is no cure.
Reply:" Or even get sick in the head, like me, and have 2 complete tig setups, 4 mig welders, a stick welder, a spot welder, 2 plasma cutters, oxy- acetylene, and a huge building full of other tools. Its a disease, and there is no cure."Ries, your sick sick sick.
Reply:Well if you have a small mig I suggest you keep that and sell your harbor freight stick and buy a small to medium sized tig machine, with that you will have a decent sized stick welder and a tig machine that you can use for more delicate or precise work , something like a econotig that will tig up to 160 amps and stick to 130 amps. If you have more money try a syncrowave 180 pretty close on amps but a better duty cycle, both of these units will hold their value and will handle roll cages with ease. I'm a miller guy but lincoln has decent stuff, dont have any of the others so couldn't tell you about them.
Reply:Your life depends upon that cage.  Don't skimp on technique or materials.  A poorly made cage can be a hazard in that the tubing could come loose in an impact and go right through you.Your cheapest bet is a 230 volt DC stick welder and the cost of a course at your local vocational school on how to stick weld.  Much depends upon technique.Your 90 amp mig is not suitable for welding up a roll cage.  A 175 amp mig from Lincoln, Hobart or Miller would do a fine job and the learning curve would be a lot faster than the stick.  But, once again, technique is critical.  Even a good looking weld may not be a sound one.  Knowledge and experience are important.  Welds made out of position (upside down) will require more skill and a good machine.
Reply:just responding to nighthawks comments- I don't think I would ever trust a mig weld over a gtaw weld. I've seen some of the prettiest beads ever with the mig- some held up some didn't. if you don't stay ahead of the puddle it's all for nothing, and usually you can't tell visually. In school one guy could smoke in the nicest multipass stringers i've seen- made me jealous- that is until we stuck his test coupon in the heartbreaker( bend tester) applied a load to the face of the fillet and all we were left with was 2 pcs. of plate and his complete weld. there was zero fusion to the base metal. that piece sits on the wall at the school as an example of what not to do. And as far as cleaning material and such that was referred to, preparing the metal for mig and tig are about the same. all the mill scale, paint and such must come off, to ensure proper fusion. otherwise your piece hangs on the wall next to the other guys I was talking about. As far as roll cages I would much rather ride around in a tig welded chassis. just my thoughtsKeep your stick on the ice
Reply:I think you need to look long term at what you are doing.  If all you are going to do is the roll cage, then a MIG should do that fine.  I assume you are trying to get away with the least expensive machine that will do the job, which would again be a mig.  You did throw in the 1/4" number, and from what I know, 1/4" wall tubing is pretty heavy when it comes to building a roll cage in a buggy, even 1/8" is pretty thick.So, after you finish the buggy, will there be anything else that you want to weld?  Will you build a trailer?  Do you want to weld aluminum?  The more you know about what you are doing long term, the easier it will be determine what you need to buy.  This will hopefully prevent you from making the mistake that you already made - buying a welder that is too small for your application.Tig is a more precise method of welding, and will produce beads that are much nicer in appearance.  Tig is also a much slower process and also requires a higher level of skill.  Generally speaking, Tig equipment will be more expensive.  Figure $1600 to $2500 for a good AC/DC machine, or about $1300 for a DC unit which will only weld steel.Mig on the other hand is faster, and easier to use and learn.  It also lends itself to working on your back under a car much more so than TIG.  And the equipment is more affordable.You probably want a 220 v machine.  A 200 amp unit will be $1000 and up.  For your buggy application, HTP has a MIG 1600, and if you outfit it with a flexible swan neck gun, it will make welding roll cages much easier and the unit is affordable - about $750.That's my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like!!
Reply:Well the good new's is that you bought it at good ol harbor freight.  Burn it up ? No problem !  No reciept ?  No problem !Remember: You cannot teach a crab to walk straight and a leopard never changes it's spots
Reply:My choice for this type of work if I was limited to one machine would be the MM210. Lots of the race teams use them, cost vs power is good and has plenty of power for the job running 030 or in my case 035. Its easy on the electric requirements too and runs on 30A circuit which is great if you need to use cords. Its a current model, they make a lot of them, very dependable.www.urkafarms.com