Seeing the puddle

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I am new to TIG, but have done a fair amount of MIG welding in the past. I am trying to build a simple puddle, but not having much luck. All I see is bright light and then an impression in my eyes for several minutes after I finish. I am "trying" to focus on the puddle vs. the arc. I could use some help on next steps. Here are the parameters:- Miller Diversion 180 - 110v- 1/8 mild steel- 110 amps- no filler (just trying to form a puddle)- Jackson Auto Darkening (old model) helmet - tested against 75 watt bulbHere are my main thoughts:1. Need more practice focusing on the puddle vs. arc (concerned about hurting my eyes)2. Use less amps (material isn't burning through, so this doesn't seem like it)3. Try a #11 or #12 lensI am leaning towards 3 before trying again. Thoughts or recommendations?I am new to the forum, and happy to see all of the activity in the forum. I did find some puddle posts, but none really seemed to help. If someone recalls a thread and has some search ideas, I would appreciate that also.Thanks,JoMo
Reply:If all you're seeing is a bright light while welding and you're seeing a spot in your eyes after, your shade is not dark enough for the application.  If your auto hood has adjustable shade, turn it up.  Also, clean both the inside and outside cover lenses, or replace if they are badly scratched or pitted.  If the hood still doesn't work right after that, put a #10, 11 or 12 fixed lens in the hood and use that instead of the auto.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Thanks DesertRider. I just noticed that I didn't post that the lens is a #10. It isn't adjustable, but I am fairly certain that it is working as it is supposed to. It is clean and in great shape (kept boxed) even though it is older. I didn't realize that the fixed lenses would fit in it. I will pick up a #11 and #12 to give them a try and post how it goes.
Reply:I take it you didn't have these issues mig welding? The reason I ask, is I've seen guys who didn't know better use an AD helmet that wasn't on and had these issues, (that or bad batteries). I'm assuming this is not the issue, but figured I'd check. I usually go darker with mig, and stick, and run a lighter shade for tig with mine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI take it you didn't have these issues mig welding? The reason I ask, is I've seen guys who didn't know better use an AD helmet that wasn't on and had these issues, (that or bad batteries). I'm assuming this is not the issue, but figured I'd check. I usually go darker with mig, and stick, and run a lighter shade for tig with mine.
Reply:I suggest using a gold colored lens.I have one that casts a nice blue hue, and the other is simply a clean orange.I use a gold 10 across the board.TURN the heat up and really melt some metal. Get used to seeing a puddle when it's super amped up, and then dial it down when you begin to recognize it.Shows you might have 180 amps. I'd turn it up to that....?Last edited by jsm11; 10-12-2010 at 11:48 PM.1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:Hi DSW,No, I don't recall having the issue when I used to MIG with it. I recall it being a little bright, but not too bad. Having said that, I used the "pull" technique and probably went more by sound and timing rather than focusing on the puddle. That is mostly why I am trying focus on proper technique and basics as I learn TIG. I replaced the batteries and think that it was working based on:1. Dark when off2. Light when I turn it on3. Dark when I hold it up to a 75 watt bulb - pull it away and it gets light againI wish that I had a fixed lens to compare it to. Hopefully I will be able to pick them up tomorrow.Thanks to everyone for posting what is working for them. It seems clear that the 10 probably should be working for me. I will pick one of them up as well if it seems darker than my Auto.
Reply:I've got the" harbor freight special "$40 adjustable AD hood and I've had no problems with light or seeing a spot unless I forgot to adjust the hood.it's got the solar panel in it. There was one time that I left it out on the wrecker and it rained on the hood and I dried it out best I could and tried using it.... Yea just buy another hood if that happens. That's why I bought the cheapy hood. Inexpensive to replace. Works just like the others do.
Reply:Let us know how it works out. How do you like that diversion 180? I was thinking of picking one up sometime.Ya gotta spend money to make money!
Reply:Originally Posted by JoMoHi DSW,1. Dark when off2. Light when I turn it on3. Dark when I hold it up to a 75 watt bulb - pull it away and it gets light againI wish that I had a fixed lens to compare it to. Hopefully I will be able to pick them up tomorrow.
Reply:Another possible angle...How close is your lens/head to your work?  I've found that whether migging or tigging, I tend to subconsciously move my head closer to the work as I weld. When I make an effort to keep my head a set distance away, I see the weld/puddle/arc much more clearly. Everyone's eyes are different. I've always had superb distance vision but up close or too close, the view is not as good.Just a thought.
Reply:Originally Posted by dunemetalEveryone's eyes are different. I've always had superb distance vision but up close or too close, the view is not as good.Just a thought.
Reply:4sfed, I think that was it. Even though the 75 watt bulb was making it darker, the arc must not have been. I tried a fixed 11 this evening and it works great. That was a somewhat painful lesson to learn!Dunemetal, I would say about 12 inches. With the 11 it seems fine, but I am going to try some different lenses/distances as I continue to practice.WelderShane, I haven’t had any real TIG experience, so I can’t really speak for the 180 yet. The unit seems to be well built and easy to operate. It will weld up to 1/8th mild steel with a 110v 20amp circuit, so that was what sold me on it initially. I plan on adding a 220v circuit sometime in the future.JoeDirt, thats funny.
Reply:Originally Posted by JoMo4sfed, I think that was it. Even though the 75 watt bulb was making it darker, the arc must not have been. I tried a fixed 11 this evening and it works great. That was a somewhat painful lesson to learn!
Reply:One way to see if your auto helmet is working right is to look away from the arc, maybe towards a window, and then start up an arc.  The lens should get a lot darker right away, and should not be switching from light to dark while the arc is going.  I will occasionally do this to make sure that my auto helmet has not automatically turned itself off.I ended up setting my auto helmet to more delay, as for MIG welding the helmet would switch while I was still welding.   That really helped, and it still works fine for TIG.RichardSculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:I use the Jackson EQC 3N1 Executive inside the shop mostly.  I do remember it being too light welding outside on a bright sunny day with fluxcore and stick.  I wore sunglasses under the hood and then it was fine.  It works fine with my inverter tig and other inverter machines.  I don't know why it is overall lighter shade than my other Jackson EQC Pro Variable lenses.  The PV's don't have any trouble outdoors in bright sun, lenses are plenty dark.  They also work just fine with my inverters.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:4sfed,Diversion doesn't have a pulse option.  Hard to "play with" something that you don't have.Cheap hoods or a hood that's not functioning properly can cause real problems.  Only get one set of eyeballs.  Good hoods are cheap insurance.Personally, and I use several different hoods, I can't imagine needing a shade 11 lens for tig welding at the amps a Diversion is capable of.  Had the Miller Elite (older style) that only went down to a shade 9.  Still too dark for lo amp tig on SS.  Went with the Elite Digital that goes to a shade 8.  Problem solved.  Picked up a Speedglas 9100xx and that works great for tig.  Very comfortable hood.  Like the side windows for periferial (SP) vision, especially in the shop.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIII4sfed,Diversion doesn't have a pulse option.  Hard to "play with" something that you don't have.
Reply:And don't block the sensors from the arc lightI have done that welding in screwy posistionsBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by killdozerd11And don't block the sensors from the arc lightI have done that welding in screwy posistions
Reply:In terms of air above the road... There should be rain or another source of water, along with the gravity of course.I think the question is more complicated than the reality of the existence of the puddle.
Reply:Originally Posted by James JohnIn terms of air above the road... There should be rain or another source of water, along with the gravity of course.I think the question is more complicated than the reality of the existence of the puddle.
Reply:Ok, thanks to everyone's help, I have been working on my puddles and making some decent progress. I am currently using a #10 lens and the parameters listed in the start of this thread. I can see the puddle and I am working on pushing a fairly constant size puddle for 4 to 5 inches. At 1st, I kept touching the surface and had to keep re-grinding my tungstens (getting quick at that  ). I haven't touched for a while now, but still seem to be killing the point of the tungsten in one or two runs. Is that normal? I couldn't find much on it, but I expected it to stay sharp when I didn't touch.
Reply:In case anyone comes across this, and it might be useful. It turns out that there were a few problems:1. The scrap metal that I was using worked Ok for mig, but I guess it wasn't "dressed" enough for tig - it was creating an unstable arc. It was angle iron with a rough surface. I switched to cleaner metal, but I think that grinding it would have worked as well.2. I was holding the tungsten too far away. It appears that creates a lot more heat than I imagined.It is amazing how quickly that combination destroys a tungsten. Still practicing, but I hope to post some pics (in a different thread) in the near future for feedback.
Reply:You can check your AD hood with any remote control for tv or whatever just point it at it and push a button it should go dark right away...Lincoln 255 XTLincoln PM140Everlast cut50 Plasma CutterVarious other Shop ToolsNew 40 X 60 Shop/GarageTrying to fill with new toysPrecision Tig 225 and love it.Originally Posted by JoMoIn case anyone comes across this, and it might be useful. It turns out that there were a few problems:1. The scrap metal that I was using worked Ok for mig, but I guess it wasn't "dressed" enough for tig - it was creating an unstable arc. It was angle iron with a rough surface. I switched to cleaner metal, but I think that grinding it would have worked as well.2. I was holding the tungsten too far away. It appears that creates a lot more heat than I imagined.It is amazing how quickly that combination destroys a tungsten. Still practicing, but I hope to post some pics (in a different thread) in the near future for feedback.