Where to buy cylinders

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Yea, I know... Kind of a dumb question, right? But here's my dilemma:The welder I have came with a 125cf tank of C25. Cost to fill this tank is approximately $50. Because I don't have a welder capable of 200A to make spatter much of an issue, I'll be working with somewhat "dirty" steel, and because it's half the cost; I'd like to switch to CO2. And also because the cost of gas is mostly labor I'd like a decent size so I'm not heading to Airgas or GTS every 3 or 4 days. Inlying problem is no welding gas outfit will sell a CO2 tank over 20lbs capacity. I can lease a 40 or 50lb (can't remember which) for $75 annually, but my inner Dutchman doesn't like the idea of tank rental. At dinner this evening, my girlfriend suggested a party supply store since they deal in helium and CO2 for balloons and fountain soda machines. I have a feeling if they do sell, the price is going to be inflated from various middle men.Any suggestions fellas?
Reply:A 20lb CO2 cylinder is somewhere between the size of a 60CF compressed gas cylinder, and an 80, BUT it holds over 160CF of CO2, because it is stored as a liquid.  A little tank of CO2 will WAY outlast a much larger tank of just gas.Most soda fountains I see use 20lb cylinders.  Its just a nice size to handle.Paintball shops use larger cylinders for transfilling, and I had one in a lab once for making pure dry ice (among other things), but those are siphon tanks, and I've never seen a non-siphon tank larger than 20lb.  I'm sure they exist, but you may be stuck renting something like that.But the real question is: Will you be happy with CO2, with your welder?
Reply:Add one more thing to your cost analysis. You will need to get an adapter to convert from inert gas (CGA580) to CO2. I don't run CO2 so I can't say 100%, but I'm not sure CO2 will tolerate rust much better than standard mig mix. You'd be better off with FC wire instead, but then you have to deal with the slag. Note that if you have a small 110v machine rust will not be your friend. (you don't list your machine, but at less than 200 amps, that only leaves  180 amp class 220v migs or 110v machines) You'll loose a good bit of what little power you have trying to burn thru [email protected] government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Good point.  CO2 cylinders use a CGA320 valve.  That seats with a disposable washer (used with care they may last a few times, but not too long).  Get a new washer with each refill.The adapter to connect a standard CGA580 inert gas regulator to a CGA320 shouldn't cost more than a few bucks at your LWS.Another option:I doubt your LWS would fill your C25 cylinder with CO2 straight off, but, you could have them change the valve to a CGA320, and then have it filled.  IF they will trans-fill CO2 for you without an exchange, that could work, and would be around 50lbs of CO2.  Any cylinder rated for the pressures of C25 should be suitable for CO2, because it is a lower pressure.But that makes it much more difficult to go back to C25, and I'm still wondering if CO2 is right for you.I'd say to post more info about your machine, and what type of work you'll be doing, and someone can give some pointers as to whether CO2 is a good or bad idea.
Reply:i keep 2 20lb co2 cylinders. the aluminum ones are cheap enough to buy (under $100) and 2 gives over 300 cu ft of gas.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:I have a MM175. About 5 years ago I used a friend's MM251 with CO2 and .023 to restore a VW Beetle pan. Spatter wasn't a problem and I'm not sure what you mean by "rust toleration". The car chassis was painted right away and rust wasn't an issue, and his welder still looks/works great. Are you talking about rust inside the cylinder?I didn't realize the valve was different between CO2 and C25 bottles. Is that the only reason why they'd refuse refill my C25 when I asked for CO2? You'd think they'd have offerered to sell the valve swap in that case.
Reply:Originally Posted by classicmotionI didn't realize the valve was different between CO2 and C25 bottles. Is that the only reason why they'd refuse refill my C25 when I asked for CO2? You'd think they'd have offerered to sell the valve swap in that case.
Reply:So then back to my original question: Has anyone actually bought a 50lb CO2 tank is every one leased?
Reply:Supply oufits handle this differently, the LWS I work at, we sell cylinders, and we will swap anybody elses cylinder as long as the customer says he owns it, and provided the cylinder is up to date on the hydro test, and there is a legible label on it communicating its contents. We sell a 20# aluminum C02 cylinder for $120.00, and the 50# for $250.00. I have competitors that will lease cylinders for 10 years, you pay a little less up front, but then have to renew or turn the cylinder in at the end of the lease.
Reply:one other consideration for me would be that the 50 lb co2 cylinder is not very portable, which will be a pain if i am going to use it on a welder that doesn't have a large cylinder rack. also what kind of floor do you have? needs to be smooth concrete to roll around in a welding cart.Dynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by classicmotion Spatter wasn't a problem and I'm not sure what you mean by "rust toleration". The car chassis was painted right away and rust wasn't an issue, and his welder still looks/works great. Are you talking about rust inside the cylinder?
Reply:JLE, I think you're taking exception to what I said earlier. I mainly do body work on older cars: Aircooled VW's, Ford Falcon, Willys Station Wagon, etc. And no matter how hard one tries; Their metal can be "less clean" compared to virgin steel. The tolerance for this type of steel makes CO2 more attractive; But it's not as important as the savings on refills compared to C25, with very similar shielding and anti-spatter.The bottle goes from my truck, into the welder cart, and when it's empty it goes into my truck and back to the LWS. I don't weld on the road. I have a garage in the country with a smooth concrete floor. Portability isn't an issue as long as it's unloadable, by hand, from my pickup.