How old is too old ???

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So after a 20yr. job is gone (factory) , I'm considering going to a welding school ? , I have been around it but not really done it . I am very interested in starting a new chapter in my life so to speak and at 48 .... wondering if I should spend the money and go for it ??? would like to get a good ten years of work in and then maybe try teaching ??? just wanted to hear some thoughts on this ... Thanks in advance !!! please be honest !!
Reply:I feel the pain.  I lost my factory management job after almost 27 years and I am now a full time student finishing my undergraduate studies.  I went to welding school while I was still employed and I have a small welding business on the side right now but just cannot commit going full blown with it due to my school commitment. The school itself will not make you good enough to just go out and jump into business.  The school will give you the tools to learn but you would be well served to try and find work with an experienced welder so he can give you the skill set.StephenMillermatic 251Miller Syncrowave 200Miller 30A SpoolgunHypertherm Powermax 30Etc., etc., etc.............Cancer Sucks!
Reply:Hey dwya,Ok, here's some mental fodder to mull over from an 'ol timer. At 67, I still get up each morning & go to work...... in my own shop. My company closed in May of this year thanks to the government. Anyway, listen.... you can get schooling almost free if you do a bit of homework in your area. Most of the local CC's have a State Employment Career Link setup for those unemployed because of the recession or company closings. Welding would be a good one to take if you have a real desire to learn. There are still many fab/job shops that are hiring weldors. I know in my area(SW PA) there are several listings a day on C/L. You may not earn what you were at the company you worked initially, although if you give a good 8hrs work for 8hrs pay, you can advance.Even when I was employed throughout my entire career, I was always looking for another "door" that may be open.....& never closed the one behind me. Each move was more fruitful & got me to today. Fully retired from employment, have my own welding/fab/machine shop w/mobile unit, & I like my newfound freedoms to make my own day. I would consider some P/T work to help a small company doing some welding, although I don't want F/T or shiftwork anymore. There is work in the welding/fab arena if you do some inquiring, & your local Career Links can help, especially if you're a Vet.... they do give us preference.Keep your thoughts positive, you can fare well if you are persistent, & under no circumstances feel lost or get depressed. Don't even think about your age & feel that is a detriment.....it's not. Most companies definitely realize an older worker is more apt to be more dependable & beneficial to their needs. Good luck.... keep us informed of your progress finding employment or schooling.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:When I went to college There were probably 10 people who were in there late 40s to early 50s looking for a career change. They said it was tough but you only live once and you might as well be happy doing what you would like to do. Even if you go and decide its not something you like you will still have that knowlege and degree to show you are teachable and alot of places look for that.Vantage 300 kubota ,miller 304 xmt ,lincoln ln 25 pro , ranger 305 G, plenty of other tools of the trade to make the sparks fly.
Reply:Do some research on your  area first and find out IF there are welding places/places hiring first..I went to school for welding,mostly because I always wanted to be able to weld,sick of asking people to weld things  for me,and 2nd i wanted to start a career..when i finished school I applied to the few local places(dont really want to move yet), almost none of them called back ...But luckily I am on my 2nd job,it is fun and laid back but They are only paying me 10$ hr (min wage is 8 around here)..
Reply:Thanks guys for your comments !!! I realy do appreciate it . This is something that I have wanted to do for a long time , kinda got sucked into feeling comfortable where I was , wish I would have done this sooner !!!! gone to school that is , Thanks again for some reassurance on this decision .
Reply:Hey dwya- I'm 47 and just gettin started in this m'self.. Only difference being I ain't seen the inside of a factory. But geez man, we ain't old, unless we wanna be. Gettin complacent in the comfort of a factory job's somethin that'll age a fella and kill his spirit. Seen it too many times back home in the mills and "plants" of north central NC. If the "routine-ness" of it wasn't sad enough, when the joint would finally get NAFTA'd, most of the folks'd just wonder about like livestock around a broken pasture fence. Pretty pathetic, really. ..Learning is invigorating.. And don't get hung-up on thinkin that the only way to go is working for someone else either. That's another sad, but too common mentality of the "sheeple". Check options, make a realistic assessment, then make a move. React accordingly. Repeat. Just like shampoo instructions. ..Grab yer own reins and go man.!!    d:^)  Schneeks..Last edited by Schneeky; 12-30-2010 at 09:30 AM.Reason: NunyaESAB 161 LTSCommunicate & adapt, diggit.?ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply:Schneeky, That's an excellent attitude to have. My Grandpa worked for the local utility company full time until he was able to retire, which he did on a Friday. The following Monday he started his new job working at a hospital for an entirely new career, which he later retired from for a second time. Point is, he enjoyed working and was able to do it most of his life. My second point is that you're never too old to learn something new. I'm 31 years old and will be starting a full time year long welding program this coming Monday. At 31 I will probably be one of the older students in this particular class, but I doubt I'll be the oldest. Neither one of us is old except to an 18 year old kid. As some others have said, don't think that being an employee is the only option you have. I am in about as stable of a job as is possible to have, but given a good opportunity to go out on my own I'd abandon ship on my job for self employment in a heart beat! As someone who has worked for themselves, I still find it hard to be an employee. Being self employed gives you a different mind set than an employee and the independence that you have being your own boss is hard to give away. If I were a gambler I'd quit my job today and go back to working for myself, but I'm not a gambler. If after school I want to weld for a living, I'll do it on the side until I can't justify staying at my job. The "ready, FIRE, aim" approach isn't something I feel comfortable doing right now like I would have done in the past.Best of luck to you. If welding is what you want to do then just do it and don't worry about all the other "am I too old" or "can I do it" bull****.
Reply:Hey DWYA, I hope you follow the self employment route after you complete your school and serve as an apprentice with a journeyman welder.  The ability to call your own shots is true freedom. Best-Ralph
Reply:Now this is just my opinion and you can take this with a grain of salt.But you are joking right?When a man is young and full of pss and vinegar - he can go out and do just about anything you ask him to do.But in my case which is like most people, when you get up around 40 years old, by that time in most professions - you have already paid your dues and you do not have to do the grunt work anymore.In most shops after 20 years of experience, you tend to pick and choose which jobs you feel like doing and the employer takes it a little easier on you - because you made them a lot of money.Other employers looks for welders that are between the age of about 25 and 35 that has 10 - 15 years of experience.  The experience buys your way in the door and your certifications is what makes you your money.Just starting out at anything over the age of 45, you are going to have a hard time getting a entry level job in the field of welding.  Even worse is that you are going to have to start out at the bottom doing all the worst jobs for the lowest level of pay.Welding involves a lot of standing in one place for hours at a time, stooping, bending, crawling, grinding, measuring, interpreting prints, fixing other peoples mistakes.Pipeline welding involves laying in a muddy hole all day - maybe even on your back - welding in all positions.  Burning holes in your clothing, getting grinding dust in your lungs, getting burned from time to time, working in the dark - since most shops don't always have the best lighting.Most big shops don't even have heat in the wintertime and they darn sure don't have air conditioning in the summer.Your first year - you might even be welding outside - in all types of weather.It seems like when that happens it rains or snows every day.Add to that the fact that not all areas of the country has manufacturing jobs right now that requires welders - so you might even have to move.Most guys your age - already owns their own home or has it mostly paid off - and so you might have to sell it and move - just to get a job.Or you might end up traveling hours each way - just to get to work.Welding is one of the worst jobs that there is and there is a lot better occupations out there that pays a lot more money for a lot less effort.I am a machinist and I have about $9000 of tools just to be a machinist and I can tell you that working in a machine shop is a lot of sacrifice and not always a real glorious job.There are days where you are trying to measure something and someone comes along and parks the crane right over the lights and you end up working all day with a micrometer and a flash light.   Freezing your butt off in the cold and wishing that you were someplace else.Unless you get on a cake job like running a Bug-o or a Jet Liner or some other automatic / camera welder - you are on the go from the time you get there until the time you leave.Not to mention that many successful shops right now runs 24/7Are you willing to be away from your family for long periods of time?Are you willing to give up weekends and holidays for months at a time?What about when one of your kids has a event and they want you to be there and you have to work.Or when you would like to go on vacation and the boss tells you that you have to work and that you can have your vacation in the off season and not right now.I can name a 1000 reasons why not to be a welder and the only reason I can give you for being a welder is MONEY!   and it is not always much!Last edited by Booger Welder; 12-30-2010 at 10:31 PM.
Reply:Please re-attach your sense of humor now..(Even tho' this is all true).. I personally know a welder, a good welder, well respected in the Mid-Atlantic marine fab biz. Shows up to work around 10AM, sometimes as early as 8AM in the summer when it's hot, Knocks off for lunch around noon, or one, goofs off there for an hour or so, comes back to the shop, piddles on the PC, yaks on the phone, checks in new work, etc.. Goes to pick up the daughter at school around 3ish. Gets back around 330ish. Closes shop about 5PM, sometimes almost 7PM in the summer when the mid day is wasted over the heat. And occasionally, stays till 9ish when he's been "too busy" (procrastinated) to get the current job done on time...Ain't nobody startin out like the previously described welder. But my point is it ain't all slave labor, either. But if that's where a fella ends up, it's either where he wants to be or had himself led to. Mebbe they've dug enough of a debt hole, or are so mortally terrified of self-sufficiency that they simply can't risk anything. Still it comes back to choices.And mebbe welding's just part of something bigger that you wanna do. Flexibility is key in this economy. It's admirable and a fine undertaking to specialize in one thing, but being able to do many things greatly increases your odds. ..Again, make yer own moves that will fit your particular situation.  Best of luck..   d:^)  Schneeks..(You guys that prefer not to utilize yer sense of humor at all times can schtick'em back in the closet now. Let the flaming commence..)ESAB 161 LTSCommunicate & adapt, diggit.?ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Reply:Maybe get yourself a job with one of the LWS, and perhaps you can get to know and find an employer this way, and perhaps a bit of an education.A formal apprenticeship is about 4 years.
Reply:Hey Booger Welder,Yes, you're response definitely needs to be taken with a grain of salt. You spew the most mindless diatribe I have ever read regarding the welding arena & each of your idiotic examples are in the left field of the Twilight Zone. I can see why your member name "handle" would certainly be fitting & appropriate in your circumstances.After 47 yrs working in (8) different shops, I never once experienced any of the total descriptions of work environments you have described. Each of my employment moves were a "choice" & "decision" I made after a full evaluation of the company/work parameters & if the move was beneficial to me. No one forces you to do anything. All you seem to do is place blame & attempt to justify it because of YOUR situations. Simply ridiculous. All your response does is clarify your nature of being a crybaby that indicates you shun any kind of physical labor & a work ethic to help your employer maintain an operation to keep workers employed. I'm sure there are many shops that would not have AC or heat & that would simply be a detriment to their operation to survive a business environment & maintain good employees.Those weldors who have CHOSEN to enter the rig & pipeline avenues, did so because the wages are much better & THEY each DECIDED the sacrifices of work conditions, weather circumstances, long hours of continual work, away from families, & sometimes no weekends off, were worth it to survive and/or maintain a decent lifestyle. They make superb income as they should & if lying in the mud, soaking in the rain, & freezing in the cold is required, they DO IT!!!  THEIR CHOICE/DECISION.Every shop I've worked, welding/fab/pipe/machine, has been nothing remotely close to your descriptions. Only one did not have AC, & ALL were HEATED......  So, since you are so intuitive as to: "I can name a 1000 reasons not to be a welder", you can keep justifying to YOURSELF why not to CHOOSE a welding career. How many of the "1000 reasons" do you have left to go??????Hey dwya..... you just maintain a positive mental attitude & you will fare well. Don't listen to this kind of garbage.....DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Well Denny - you are living in a dream world.When I started working on drilling rigs in 1990, I was making $8.50 an hour as a deck hand...20 years later, my friends are only making $12.50 a hour as a driller.I don't know where you live or what your experiences are - but in Pennsylvania - things are not good.The pipe line welders are not making anything more today then they were 30 years ago and they are just happy to have a job.The shops around where I live all does repair work for the steel mill industry and for the mining industry.None of them has any heat in the wintertime except for Miller Welding & Machine and most of them are colder inside of the building then outside.They have no compassion for their workers and they work you - just like a slave.It's hard to tell people where you work because you are being exploited - not employed.I told the boss many times that you can't fire me - slaves has to be sold.Paint this guy a pretty picture as much as you want, I have been to one too many rodeo's and although I have not seen it all - I have seen enough to know that welding is a crappy business to get into and a even worse business to get out of.As I drive my brother to the airport - to go to his next assignment, I ask him why he coughs so much?He gets smart and tells me that it is because he works for a living.The truth is that someone got the bright idea to put a bunch of booger welds on the turbine blades in the power plants and then let the work for the next shift - that has to come in and grind off all that weld before it can be inspected and welded again.When my brother tried to explain to them - when you do good welds- you don't have to pile it on like crap and hope that it sticks.   But they don't listen - so he gets stuck grinding 70% of the time and welding 30% - mostly fixing other peoples mistakes...When he leaves and is gone for 6 weeks to 6 months at a time I ask why do you work so hard and he tells me that it is because he doesn't want to go back to where he left and wants to get ahead.As I see the brilliance leave his eyes and as I see the candle burn out - I often times get into fights over trivial things, and it is to the point of where you can't even have a conversation with him anymore without it ending up in a fight.I honestly wish I had a million dollars so I could give it to him so he could quit his job so he would go back to being normal.Surely no amount of money is worth being miserable all the time.You look at his employer - Siemens and you wonder - why do they pay him $25.00 a hour to travel when you can make the same amount of money at home if you could find a good job shop that had a union and benefits.  The problem is that the economy in Pennsylvania is so depressed that no one pays much anymore for welders except maybe the pipeline people - working the natural gas fields and even then - you aren't going to be home much - except maybe at night to go to sleep and do it all over again tomorrow.  when you get old and you get sick and no one wants you anymore - you will die a lonely death - probably alone - hacking up your lungs - trying to get air in your lungs so you can breath and trying to see out your one good eye.   It's not much of a life....
Reply:Hey Booger,Just to clarify a couple things..... first, I don't live in any dream world & never did. I've been blue-collar my entire career. My challenge to your post, #10, was a response to your very one-sided opinion because of your own experiences, & not a general consensus of the entire gamut of the welding arena.Yes, PA is a low-wage state, no arguments there..... although, the cost-of-living is a bit lower also. I have worked in shops that would probably be classified as small-to-mid size with each being under 100 employees. I've never worked in a large mill or other facility that may be typical of the work conditions you have described. I live near Pittsburgh. There is no job I would take, no matter what the pay, to drive the insane roadways in Pgh.. That's my choice. I've always found good shops away from the city that paid a fair wage, good working conditions, & even now, there are still some hiring. Some shops have closed, some have moved out-of-state, & a few good ones are still working quite well & even have some OT available. Since I've retired in May, I turned down several offers because I absolutely will not drive into the city, even with a fair offer of over $20/hr to start. There have been steady listings on C/L for Stick, MIG, & TIG weldors in the surrounding Pgh areas that are finally offering a fair starting wage over $15/hr. That is the "going" rate in this area....not gonna get much more unless you really have a desired talent(SS/Alum. TIG) & they do offer $20/hr+. If you go to the "Off Topics" section, do read member Bob Warners' thread regarding his own personal career & his recent employment. He's in Texas.... do the wage comparisons & understand his reasonings.....quite enlightening.As far as your brothers' scenerio, I can only surmise that his physical debilitations were self-inflicted as there has been very adequate PPE for many years now & every job I had, there was never an issue requesting any kind of PPE. Again, we must live with the results of OUR OWN DECISIONS to use or not use & have no one else to blame. My body is quite important to me as I only get (1) set of parts....so, I take care of it.I have lived a comfortable lifestyle because my pap taught me the proper application of money & the mental conditioning that money is simply a tool..... use the tool for what it was designed & it will not fail you. And so, my financial stability is the result of that mindset. I work my own shop now & may take a P/T offer to help a local shop thru the winter as he is buried & will pay a fair wage to do strictly welding. He has a crew to do all the prep work & my position will entail strictly welding....MIG & Stick. Since my incoming has leveled off a bit with winter, I'm gonna go there a few days a week to help him out a bit. I like to keep busy & since it's only 7mi from me, it's close enough to not be costly to drive.Anyway, I just feel that discouraging anyone contemplating getting into welding is not really a truth dictated by only a single issue that is based on a personal or a relatives' experiences that were not particularly glowing. I do believe that the majority of the members here & other forums who's careers are welding, would agree with me it is a great career. It's really all about what we each find acceptable or not-acceptable. I wasn't trying to engage into any kind of argument.... just attempting to provide more of an overall arena portrait.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:BoogerWhat do you come to a welding forum for if you are so sour on the profession? Guys like you crack me up.....the big bad employer is out to get you, doesn't pay enough, exploits you, etc. If you're a grown *** man then your employer can't MAKE you do a thing. You voluntarily trade your time, skill and knowledge for whatever your employer compensates you, by your own choice. What about the welders who work for themselves, who are they to blame? Plenty of people are successful welders that work the job on their own terms and don't let themselves get exploited like a slave.
Reply:not trying to pick a fight, or insult anybody.i've been welding for a long time, mostly construction.i think buddy is getting a little long in the tooth to be buying that much pain.welding for fun and practicing a long and hard learned craft may be an old man's game,earning a dollar as a welder is the domain of those who are young and strong, or old... extremely tough, and stubborn as a stump. rjm
Reply:dwya,Go for it, I am close to 44 and I own my own shop so I have to do the tough jobs along with the easy ones. You might be a little more tired at the end fo the day than the 20 year old but thats life. I love welding and machine work and I think most of these other folks do that are on this board, don't let anyone talk you out of it if that is what you decide on. Good luck with your new adventure whatever it may be.LarryMiller XMT 304 CC/CVSyncrowave 180 SDLincoln PowerMig 255XTTermalDynamics 52Lincoln 305GComlpete machine shop to back it up
Reply:Sheese.....look around at the jobsites and see who REALLY busts tail these days.I for one am not all that impressed with the younger generation as a whole. And I have worked with some pretty dang tuff ole dudes that held their own untill they retired. Not saying the younger guys are poor workers. It is simply a different day and age. I enjoy the heck out of working HARD at times.That said....what about simply loving what you do. Many times I solve my problems for the next day simply because I choose to remain in thought about work.I mean heck....look what time it is and what I am doing now. I've loved welding since I was a kid and I still do now at 52. I plan on being that dude that everyone brings their crap to that no one else could fix untill I die. Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise!!!If you hate you job then find one you love.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by FusionKingThat said....what about simply loving what you do. Many times I solve my problems for the next day simply because I choose to remain in thought about work. I mean heck....look what time it is and what I am doing now. I've loved welding since I was a kid and I still do now at 52. I plan on being that dude that everyone brings their crap to that no one else could fix untill I die. Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise!!! If you hate you job then find one you love.
Reply:Well guys just want to say Thank You for the resposnes , The good and I guess the bad ? . I "did" ask for honest replies ... so ya after thinkin about it and reading bout it ... signed up today and start on Mon. . I'm really looking forward to learning something new !! Thanks again for the replies !!
Reply:Fuson King is right, I am that old dude in my location.  I get all the stuff nobody wants to mess with because they cant make a killing doing it.  I got sick 18 months ago and havent been able to work and my customers still are willing to wait for me to get better and get back to work.  I dont make a killing, but I eat everyday and have a home, electric and a couple of good cars and all the toys I desire so nothing is missing.  It's not how much you make it is how busy you care to be, I stayed busy enough to buy all my own equipment and do what I want when I want for who I choose to do it for.  If that aint rich then I am a poor poor man.  Go for it, if it isnt for you you will know soon enough to do something different.  Have fun and burn on!!!BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Make sure you can see, and see very well, at welding distances and in all positions. The shape of the eye changes when looking up to do overhead welding, and that's what gets many of our welding students. Current eye prescription is a must, and EMPHASIZE to the optometrist that you want a single-vision prescription for the specific distance range of welding work.Welding school goes well with other mechanical interests, and even if you don't turn pro you would, for example, be a more effective plant maintenance person for being able to weld as well as wrench.Expect it to take at least five years to become experienced. That figure seems to apply to most trades.Take a welding course and see how you do before you project a career. Also, consider what you know how to do and what would complement it in the job market.
Reply:Let us know how things turn out.  I am sure the change will be rocky, but good times are down the road. Luck, Ralph.