How much gas do I need

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I have a Lincoln WeldPac100. I'm swithcing to gas and true solid mig wire, no more flux core. I go through about 10lbs of flux core a year. I don't weld more because it's about $60 a roll and I hate cleaning all the slag off the welds. Sayin that to say, in ya'lls opinion, what size bottle of shielding gas do I need. 90q/f is about $175 and 40q/f is about $100. Do you think that a 40 q/f bottle will last as long a single 10lb of flux core or do I need the 90q/f. And is there a cost saving either way. Which is more economical taking all that into concideration. An inquiring mind with shallow pockets wants to know.
Reply:I'd go with the larger bottle.  Once you get past the 20cf size (I forget what the call it in co2...pound size) you arent really portable anymore anyway and the difference in the charge to fill it is very small.  Call your local gas supplier, just to be sure.  It might take a few (5-7) re-fills but you will pretty quickly get your money back in gas (quicker with argon mixes).  BTW, I dont recall seeing a 90cf size, are you sure it's 90? Stick with sizes you can exchange.Other places to check are ebay and flea markets.  There are a few welding supply places that regularly sell these on ebay pretty cheap compared to local distributers (ask about shipping charges, they will matter).  Last, post a note on the trade section of this group.  Someone might have just what you need and be willing to part with it for less than you have seen new, so they can trade up.  New or used doesnt matter as long as they have a current inspection date.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Well sense you said that I think my supplier will let me upgrade w/o a penalty. so no loss there. and two I was about to buy some oxygen bottles at an auction once. I called my buddy to see what would be a good price. He warned me however that you are taking a risk because the guy that died might have had the contract  with the supplier and when you take them in to be exchanged, since they are technically theirs, they might keep the bottles and leave you screwed. Needless to say i didn't buy them. But if anybody else wants to talk a trade or whatever, I'm listening.
Reply:Yep, he is right about that.  The one advantage of new or from a company is you have someone to turn and point at.  I bought my oxy/ac outfit from a private citizen and got him to write a receipt and exchanged them immediately.  Note, though, that upgrade and exchange are different things.  Maybe you already know this, but to save confusion...Upgrade is getting a bigger bottle.  If you can do that, it wouldnt hurt much to start out smaller.  Really, all that is lost is the difference in the cost of gas.  Exchange is when you drop off your cylinder and get another filled, no waiting.  The bottle is yours while it's in your possession, but you get a different one every time.  That's where odd sizes can create huge delays.   But youre right, on the point of your last post.  You do have to be careful about the TRUE ownership of the cylinder.Another option you may not have considered is renting for a while, just to see what size you like.  Test the smaller and see if it fits your needs.  Renting is a pretty good deal, really.  I just bought mine because of the price they were offered to me at and it keeps my credit report out of folks' hands.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:dlturman,  I do some maintanence for a few mobile home manufacturing plants and I use a 135 lincoln on a 40 pound CO2 bottle for handrails and sheet metal because we can move it around half way decently, and can always find a 110V outlet.  Usually it takes about 3 bottles to run thru a 10 pound spool or atleast the way my machine runs it does.  I will add as mentioned above that the larger bottle you can go with the better off you will be for one, less exchanges not to mention a better value per exchange.  The price difference will make up for it in the long run.    Also I see bottles for sale in magazines and websites.  Make a point to go to your local welding distributor, and get to know the salesman, and buy your bottle from him.  If it cost you a few dollars more I guarantee that in the long run it will pay off because nothing price wise in welding supplies is set in stone.  I have found that the more you scratch their back the more they scratch yours.  Good luck   ~Jackson
Reply:I guess my real question is, Is a gas bottle a better deal than flux core. And "the bigger the bottle the better" is the concensus. Also I agree that in this world of China-Mart when we can find a local dealer that freely gives advice to loyal customers, go for it. I was imressed by my local dealer because he took me in the back room and let me use a mig welder for the first time, I didn't even have to ask. Wow, personal attention. He has me concidering a $1200 100%duty cycle machine. AND I DO THIS FOR FUN!. Ok, Ok I digress. Mention welding and makin' stuff I get all emotional and sentimental.
Reply:I guess my real question is, Is a gas bottle a better deal than flux core.
Reply:Originally Posted by dlturmanI have a Lincoln WeldPac100. I'm swithcing to gas and true solid mig wire, no more flux core. I go through about 10lbs of flux core a year. I don't weld more because it's about $60 a roll and I hate cleaning all the slag off the welds. Sayin that to say, in ya'lls opinion, what size bottle of shielding gas do I need. 90q/f is about $175 and 40q/f is about $100. Do you think that a 40 q/f bottle will last as long a single 10lb of flux core or do I need the 90q/f. And is there a cost saving either way. Which is more economical taking all that into concideration. An inquiring mind with shallow pockets wants to know.
Reply:a thing that I Found out is that if the bottle is expired the local companies won't take it back, I have a O2 bottle that looks brand new but it was out of date, and I still have it because they won't take it back. To get it re-ceritfied was going to be about $40.
Reply:Well, let's just put some numbers to it.  If you wanted to compare say... .035 fc to .030 solid.  I think this is probably a fair comparison, given your welder.  Correct me at any point here guys if you think this is not a fair comparison, or I am wrong or overstating anything.If hammock's estimate is ballpark accurate, 3 bottles of 40cf per 10# roll.  You are probably talking about a total cost of about $35-$55 for the gas needed to run the roll at the cheapest (search this forum and you find prices for gas vary widely), plus the cost of the wire, about $25-$30.A 10# roll of flux core is about $60, with tax (just bought a roll of .035 at tractor supply last night).  No gas needed.  No time in exchanging.  No extra bottle to drag around.  Can weld in windy condition.  But, it's smokey, with flux, welds not as nice looking....These things should be considered....My guess, based on what I know and the other info in the posts above, is that the break-even point between FC and co2 in the 80cf range.  Some folks like Hammack have to have portabliity.  He probably charges a bit more for that and it justifies paying a bit more for the gas, but I bet he would say if he could throw an 80cf bottle around like a 40cf bottle, that's what he'd use.  Even a 40 will give you a pretty good work out if you attach it to a 130 amp feeder.For you, though, price comparisons should include what you would be most satisfied with.  You may not use a bottle in a month or 6 months.  So, an extra $20 dollars spread over a roll of wire might not end up making that much difference over that time span.  Don't underestimate the value of your personal satisfaction.  it's worth a lot.Hope this helps and good luck finding the right deal for you. Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smithboy, You are right, Its the portability that keeps me from using the larger bottles when we are in plant.  When I have that machine in the shop it's hooked to a large bottle just as my larger machines are.   In my mind you have to figure in what your time is worth, and when i figure that I am going to have to unhook, load and haul a bottle in to have it exchanged its worth the savings in Time and Gas money for the truck to just get the big bottle.  One thing to consider when you do not use alot of gas is even if you own the bottle, you want to make sure your welding supplier is going to "exchange"  your bottle and not just fill it and give you the same bottle back.  Some may disagree with me and say they want "Their own" bottle back, but as stated above all bottles have to be tested and if yours runs past the date on your bottle you are gonna be spending cash to get it retested and nothing guarantees that it will pass.  better to let them spend the money on the testing, and always have a bottle you can exchange, than one sitting around thats no good.
Reply:Originally Posted by Hammack_WeldingSome may disagree with me and say they want "Their own" bottle back, but as stated above all bottles have to be tested and if yours runs past the date on your bottle you are gonna be spending cash to get it retested and nothing guarantees that it will pass.  better to let them spend the money on the testing, and always have a bottle you can exchange, than one sitting around thats no good.
Reply:All good Info here, RC-Racer brings up the best point. Some times I need two bottles to go out on the job with and my supplier will just let me take the bottle and use up the content and just bring the bottle back and pay for the content.
Reply:The last time I took in an out-of-date cylinder, it was exchanged and I was charged a $30 hydro-test fee.  The ninety-something CF cylinders are just uprated 80CF cylinders.  I've used the 20, 40, and 80CF bottles recently and don't really find any real difference in portability.  I could move the welder and the 20CF bottle at the same time, but it was a bit annoying.  The 20CF bottles tend to roll around.  In fact, this one did and screwed up one of the gauges on the regulator.  80CF bottles still aren't that big.  I don't have one handy, but I believe they're about 3ft tall and only weigh about 30Lbs.  That's about as portable as any welder I've seen.-Heath