hydraulic manifold repair.

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Hello all, I work maintenance in an injection molding factory. We have a 500 ton injection machine that has developed an oil leak (imagine that, 15 years old).  The leak is on a hydraulic manifold, basically a large steel block with lots of passages and valves mounted in it. The manifold developed a crack and it weeps and sometimes pours, depending on what part of the cycle the machine is in.My question is what would be the best process to use to weld it? I am having it removed this weekend so I can weld it at home. I have a Miller synchrowave 350.  The manifold appears to have some sort of finish on it, not paint but maybe anidized, carberized?Sorry for my rambling I don't normally work nights, but the plant is shut down and I am here alone, working on water leaks.Any way thanks for any help.Tim.Last edited by tnjind; 07-04-2008 at 11:27 PM.Reason: spelling, againTim Beeker.
Reply:Do you know what kind of steel it is made from? Are there moving parts inside it? Would you have to machine it afterwards at all?TIG would be my first choice, but depending on where the cracks were, it may not work out.Got any pictures?Yup
Reply:I do not know what type of steel it is. I would think mild steel, where the crack is there SHOULD not be any moving parts, I will know more when it is removed and stripped of valves. Should I drill tiny holes at each end of the crack before welding to stop the crack from growing? The block is about a 20" cube, the crack is only about 3" long.I brought my digital camera with me but the lights are out on the production floor, I will post pics(I hope) Monday. Just trying to get some ideas. The machine needs to go back in service on Wednesday if possible.Thank you for any help.Tim.Last edited by tnjind; 07-04-2008 at 11:54 PM.Reason: added infoTim Beeker.
Reply:having worked on all sorts of IM presses ( hope its not a Toshiba) I would be careful, the crack could extend to the middle of the block or more.Some machines use ductile iron manifolds which can be very hard to weld once they become soaked through with oil.  you should find the circuit that it is cracked , whether it is the travel cylinders, eject cylinders or what not ,  Then you can trace those lines and know how deep the crack originates fromIf it the manifold that supplies the main cylinder , buy a new manifold.insert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:It is a Cincinnati Milacron,It is the clamp manifold, supplies the traverse cylinders.I know what you mean about Toshibas, we have one, what a turd.Tim.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Originally Posted by chenryI would be careful, the crack could extend to the middle of the block or more.
Reply:there is a ton of if's here.if you know what it is made of? can you get it clean enough? does the crack only run to the outside? but, if it's no good now, or soon will get that way, at least your aren't taking a chance of messing it up. i would give tig welding a shot. if it don't work your really no worse for the effort.
Reply:I am waiting for a call back from the OEM about a replacement, cost aside, the lead time I am sure will be at least several weeks. It will have to be machined they no longer stock these, the machine is too old.This machine runs 24/7. Only time the plant is down is July 4th, Thanksgiving, Christmas day and Newyears day. Hopfully the crack is only on the surface, is not in a critical bore, is made from mild steel.......In the least maybe I can buy some time til the replacement gets here.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Well I'M thinking that an outside weld job will be sufficant..You state that the machine functions just fine except for the oil mess so I'D say there is nothing wrong with the inside...Weld it up and leter' rip but maybe make a new one in the mean time.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What do you think about drilling the ends of the crack?Tim Beeker.
Reply:Myself?No..I would not drill out the ends..You may drill into something and then open another Grind it out and fill it in..That is what I would do.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:We had a similar go on a 3000 ton press at work - had to order a new one. The repaired one lasted a week - then it REALLY split Fire!, Fire! Oh wait, that's my torch...Lincoln PT-225 TIGLincoln 175 MIG
Reply:we repaired the left travel cylinder on a 1500 tom HPM that had split the barrel longways .welded it up and place some 1/4 plate sheilding to keep any shrapnel away from the operators if it went ugly and it ran for exactly one week, which was how long it took to get the material and make a new barrel.really love the 3000 ton and larger machines, nothing like repacking a 60 inch diameter rodmy favorite was repairing the hundreds of stripped holes in the platens of the machines without Magnetic clamps.in one good day we repaired 820 odd holes across a bunch of smaller machines and can consistently repair 200 larger holes in a  day Guardserts are the greatestinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:WOW stripped platen holes, at my work someone could be fired for that, techs use torque wrenches even. I had a Gaurd salesman in about a year ago, looked like good stuff but never did order anything, glad to hear it is good. My maintenance tech. called me yesterday after he removed it, said the block wieghs 424 lbs.Tim Beeker.
Reply:the plants I went in to to repair use 3/4 inch ingersol rand impacts on the machines bigger than 250 ton. Automotive plant that has a bunch of machines too old to upgrade to mag platens.I have been on every platen in both of those plants. The guard serts are expensive but worth every penny. I have used them all the way up to custom made 1-1/2-6 ( custom made 50$ each) they work awesome.  thy make helicolis and the the like look as bad as they arethere are also thinserts which act like keen serts but have a much thinner wallinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Originally Posted by tnjindSorry for my rambling I don't normally work nights, but the plant is shut down and I am here alone, working on water leaks.Any way thanks for any help.Tim.
Reply:I am the head of maintenance, I am well aware of the dangerous nature of working by yourself. I was only working with schd. 80 PVC. I did also repair some minor compressed air leaks also. I didn't do anything dangerous for that reason. The plant sure does seem strange when it is empty and quiet. I have been there since day one. I watched the plant being built 15 yrs ago, but it sure does seem strange to hear all of the popping sounds the structure makes as it cools down during the night.Tim.Tim Beeker.
Reply:TIG it and hope for the best.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I have repaired hundreds of cracks in all kinds of stuff (mostly cast iron, cast steel and mild steel) and have never drilled the ends on any of them. A few have suffered massive failure as you described (knew it was only a temporary fix anyway) others have run for years. Some of these have hundreds of thousands of tons of stress on them. The trick is to always gouge it or grind it out well past the end of the crack and reinforce with fish plates if at all possible. You wouldn't believe how many of them could have been prevented by simply tightening a nut or bolt. Well I did drill the ends of a crack in a plexiglass windshield on a motorcycle fairing, but I didn't try to weld it up, lol.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:Well.I  "V" ed it out about 3/16 deep. ran 3 passes, hoping for the best will be starting the machine up this morning. I tried to take pictures, even had zaps dime, but I am a camera idiot, the wife left a digital camera. Must be smarter than me. pics sucked.Tim Beeker.
Reply:Tim,Hopefully that 'schd 80 PVC" and 'some air leaks' were not the same thing.Compressed air and PVC is   Bad, dangerous, and OSHA fines no-no.3/16 deep all depends on how thick the part and the crack are/were, doesn't it?
Reply:Sch. 80 pvc, cooling water supply, 60psi max.  Compressed air is copper, then threaded connections, all approved for air service. This is a first rate facility, I am lucky to work here. We put the machine in service today so far so good. Also installed a heat exchanger in another press and changed hyd. pumps in another today, busy, busy day.Tim Beeker.