Recentered Hummer wheels

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I dont know how many of you are big into off roading, but if you are, then you probably know about hummer wheels. For the rest of you, i'll try and explain. I got a set of surplus military hummer (H1) wheels. They look like this when you get themINSANE amount of backspacing. So the original center has to go. Mounted the wheels on a big enough 4-jaw chuck, indicated and used a parting tool to cut the center out. (no picture, sorry... if you want one, i have 3 wheels left to do so i can go take a picture, but you'll get the idea)next step is to call stazworks (www.stazworks.com) and get new pressed centers(you can get flat plate but i hear they tend to bend under extreme use.... brake(not break) points = strength)Then grind off the nasty rubbery military paint where the welds are going to go. The new centers sit on a hump inside the wheel and i'm pretty sure these shouldnt wobble going down the road. I tacked the new centers in and put them on a axle and spun them and they looked pretty true, so i welded them up completly.Now here is more pictures. I'm open to criticism. I promise I won't cry. I used my clarke 180en welder with flux core wire.I intend to get these professionally sandblasted when i finish all 5.
Reply:If possible, can you put up a pic of before and after on the vehicle?  Looks good to me, what process?
Reply:thats going to be a while. these wheels are 8 lug wheels for my 8 lug axles that i havent swapped under my truck yet. i have lots of welding to do on those, so i should have plenty more projects to post up in the next couple months.
Reply:Originally Posted by slamdvw what process?
Reply:aric, i hate to be the giver of bad news. military wheels on all hummer series are split rim with a solid faced wheel. i doesn't matter if they are the radials or the bias. most military vehicles are split rimmed to allow quickly changing of the tires in the field. there isn't anywhere to carry a spare except on deuce and a halfs and bigger. look at the rear tire and dead center you will see a small pipe bolted to the wheel. that is used for self recovery with a plain ole bent tire iron and some chain. humvees always travel in pairs so your wingman can loan you his iron and chain and if there is a good sturdy tree you can drop it in gear and away you go."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:david r, they are welded on both sides. I think the welds i have should be plenty, but you are the professional. So since they are welded on both sides, do you still think i should run a triple pass?backuproller, i'm confused? I know the wheels are split rim. They contain an insert (runflat) and makes the tire locked down to both edges of the wheel. Thats why they are so great for off roading, they are double beadlocks.I cut out the old center and welded in a new one to set a different backspacing. these wheels arent going on a hummer.without recentering, you have to alter steering components, and your hubs stick out like on these vehicles.When you recenter them, it decreases backspacing so the hubs dont stick out and there is no need to alter steering components since the wheel will no longer interfere. As in these vehicles.
Reply:Not going on a Hummer? Good thing, cuz... City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverNot going on a Hummer? Good thing, cuz...
Reply:Couple of comments.If I were to do something along these lines, I'd sandblast the rims -before- welding.  To get them all clean and nice.  Clean and nice makes for better welds.Spinning the tacked up rims on an axle and eyeballing them is NOT the way to go about checking concentricity and run-out.  You check it with a dial indicator, after mounting it on an axle and spinning it (slowly).  Unless that's what you meant by "they looked pretty true".   Your welds don't look bad, but they could be improved.  In the attached marked-up copy of your weld pic, notice the areas I've circled in red, blue, orange, and green.  In the red circle, your weld does not flow past the 'corner' of the new centers.   You also need to start your weld with a back-step, ie start about an inch to the right of the red circle to get the arc started and some heat going into the steel and then move to the left until you get past the edge of the new center and then you reverse travel direction to go left-to-right like you originally wanted.Then in the blue circle at the end of your weld, you again didn't flow your weld past the edge of the center.    You also have an ending crater.   I think what David R was suggesting is to run nice weld beads in the area of the orange circle  and green circle (and it's corresponding area on the other side of the arm/spoke of the new center).  Get as much attachment from the spokes to the rim as you can, since you can't weld both sides of the the end of the spoke to the rim. Attached Images
Reply:First off, thank you very much for your response. everything is noted for the next 3 rims. So here is my response to your critiques. Originally Posted by MoonRiseCouple of comments.If I were to do something along these lines, I'd sandblast the rims -before- welding.  To get them all clean and nice.  Clean and nice makes for better welds.The area to be welded was ground clean with a flap wheel. It was nice and shiny before welding, the pictures dont show it very well though.Spinning the tacked up rims on an axle and eyeballing them is NOT the way to go about checking concentricity and run-out.  You check it with a dial indicator, after mounting it on an axle and spinning it (slowly).  Unless that's what you meant by "they looked pretty true".   You are correct, that would be the way to do it. By the time these wheels are on my truck, it will be trailered everywhere, or see VERY limited street use (nowhere near highway speeds), so a little bit of wobble should not be a problem. I should invest in an indicator with a magnetic and clamp base though, because you never know when you need to use one again.Your welds don't look bad, but they could be improved.  In the attached marked-up copy of your weld pic, notice the areas I've circled in red, blue, orange, and green.  In the red circle, your weld does not flow past the 'corner' of the new centers.   You also need to start your weld with a back-step, ie start about an inch to the right of the red circle to get the arc started and some heat going into the steel and then move to the left until you get past the edge of the new center and then you reverse travel direction to go left-to-right like you originally wanted.This sounds like a good method if I was using stick(SMAW) and no auto tint hood. As said before, i'm using flux core mig, and running backwards an inch doesnt sound like the greatest idea, but i'm no expert, maybe you could explain this alittle better, i think i know what you are trying to say though, and i agree, i need to hit the corners better. i definitely hit the corners better like you are mentioning on the other side. Once again, i need to invest a little in my equipment and get some 75/25 mix. MIG is so much easier to control and ALOT less messy... no slag hammer  Then in the blue circle at the end of your weld, you again didn't flow your weld past the edge of the center.    You also have an ending crater.   Do you think the crater is bad enough that i should go back over it? I didnt think it was that bad, but hey... i'm not a professionalI think what David R was suggesting is to run nice weld beads in the area of the orange circle  and green circle (and it's corresponding area on the other side of the arm/spoke of the new center).  Get as much attachment from the spokes to the rim as you can, since you can't weld both sides of the the end of the spoke to the rim.
Reply:What you gotta do is start about a quarter inch to the right of the left edge......(if u are right handed, you weld from left to right)....then backstep to the left edge hold, then continue to the right....I always go a little further to the right when I'm done, then back left again to fill in the crater at the end.Like you said though, you arent going to be flying up I-55 or anything like that, so you should be fine.Oh yeah....you should check out the mud spot in Summit, 55 and 1st ave. good fun!!!Miller blue star 2eLincoln 175
Reply:aric, the first pic of the post showing the whole rim didn't show up the first time i posted."Retreat hell, were just fighting in the other direction"Miller Trailblazer 302, Extreme 12 VS, Dimension 400, Spectrum 375, HF 251D-1, Milermatic 251 w/ spoolgun  Hypertherm 1000Lincoln sp 1702000 F-450 to haul it
Reply:Dumb question, but why not just buy a set of beadlocks???DanMy instructor said someone will catch on fire during class...He wasn't joking!!
Reply:Originally Posted by xccelagatorDumb question, but why not just buy a set of beadlocks???Dan
Reply:even with a buddy with a CNC I was only able to get single beadlocks for a 15" wheel for about 100 bucks a set BEFORE the hardware...ughcrawling ain't always cheap
Reply:Here is a suppler of beadlocks the price seems reasonable.http://www.diamondracingwheels.com/BeadLocks.htm
Reply:welds except from the statements noticed above look pretty good. I´ve only seen that kind of design on light buggies (1 bent plate welded to the "wheel circumference"). Never on rock crawling trucks. And im not into that a lot  but,... have you seen wheels like those used in rock crawling??I think there´s a lot of stress in that kind of actionMy Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:radials rims usually accept the hard rubber run flats and can be IDd by a small hole in-between the wheel studs bias rims accept metal run flats and have no hole.the gasket is also different but most people use the same for both.Blue torch fab has some nice hummer centers
Reply:Originally Posted by mynameisarici think its a good question.hummer wheel = $20hummer magnesium insert(thing on the inside that helps clamp the tire to the wheel) = $20New wheel centers = $75total = $115 per wheel.Its hard enough to find single beadlocks for that price (used!), let alone double beadlocks.
Reply:I'm into offroading, and my hat is always off to someone willing to undertake a project like this instead of getting assembly-line stuff that 80 per cent of the rigs on the trail with you have.  Nice work, I hope they turn out right for ya!  Update with the finished product, seems like a very cool idea .Have a Jeep Cherokee?  Click Here!
Reply:update:I got some 75/26 gas and finished the 3 other rims. Attached Images
Reply:nice tough stuff... glad to see someone know their jeep...Unit in my fab shop dept:my good hand and team that trust me...A lone welder make art... a village full of welder make Miracles...
Reply:How did you like MIG vs flux?And I guess that gurus will reprimand you for the fact that you did not filled the edge...To me this weld looks somewhat havier then before - that is good... Cuz "There is so much riding on your wheels..."
Reply:This is one of the most interesting and educational threads I've read here for some time. I thank you for sharing your project with us and hope it shapes up just as you would like it to.My 2c worth, I was taught that taking your weld around the end of something you're welding could be regarded as a "rule of thumb" to double the effective weld strength. I've found the input form DavidR and Moonrise to be very informative and there are several things there that I'll be trying in future welds. In particular getting a heat base into the weld area at the outset. Tanglediver's Hummer/Mastercard take off is a real laugh.I'm looking further to more posts here as so far, there has been no vitriol."One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering)Mitch 180 (NZ)Lincoln SAM-400-220 + ?-400 Fordson Major + 2 x Tractapac Humber 80 + Procut 40 PlasmaMiller Spectrum 375
Reply:mig vs flux is like night and day. less smoke, less spatter, easier control. I found that my clarke unit likes to be pushed with mig. much better results than dragging the weld. If i can get these wheels to balance, then this truck may see some light cruising on the street, otherwise it will be a trailer queen. I feel very confident in the welds. ESPECIALLY if you have ever taken a look at the welds on OEM stamped wheels...for what your doing with them , it will more than not be just fine, ( you got  spare for the trail right ?)a couple of the beads look like you had some undercutting on the vertical (rim) side of the bead and incomplete wetting on the horizontal ( hub ) side.  if doing more of this work it might be helpful after tacking to set the rim at an angle to make this a more float postion weld as opposed to a fillet. slow your travel speed or add a little side to side to your travelas well to broaden/ flatten your bead.and in some applications you would not want to weld around the ends of things ( completely encircle the hub to rim interface with a bead as opposed to letting the bead terminate at the end of the rib on both sides), this is not one of those , weld completely around the rib.backstepping the weld as explained above is an excellent way to do this. my two abe lincolns , your mileage may vary.( recentered several sets of boyd rims in my younger days. , made a little jig to hold and spin the rim at  a 45 degree angle. but those were welded continuously around the circumferenceinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:flat not floatbefore the spelling and grammar ninjas get meinsert thoughtful quote from someone else2000 Thermal Arc 300GTSW 3.5 hours1946 Monarch 20 x 54 Lathe1998 Supermax 10x54 Mill2004 Haco Atlantic 1/2" Capacity Lasernot mine but i get to play with it
Reply:Slag is drag, ie if it makes slag then drag it.  Usually.Tough to tell fine details of the welds, but from what I can see, they don't look too bad.  As chenry and Tractapac mentioned, it is usually better to wrap the weld around the corners and have it all tied together instead of just having a weld on one face/edge and then another weld on the other face/edge.It looks like you did better on not getting an ending crater.  Keep in mind any crater or undercut or other discontinuity is a concentration area where things will usually start to break or fail first.  So try to not put any 'failure starting points' in there.Also remember that looks aren't everything.  MIG is notorious for welds that look 'OK', but that are actually cold-lapped aka lack-of-fusion because the weld bead didn't melt -into- the base material but is instead mostly sitting on top of the base material.  I can't tell how thick the materials (new centers and the original rim sections) are, but you might be at the upper end of the capabilities of your machine and its amperage output.  I can't see fine details in the pics, but I can't see how well the weld melted into the base steel.And I hope you picked up a dial indicator and base to check run-out, etc.  Low end (but capable) ones are only about $25 or so.  H-F, or littlemachineshop.com, etc, etc are some sources.
Reply:Originally Posted by MoonRiseSlag is drag, ie if it makes slag then drag it.  Usually.
Reply:Originally Posted by TractapacThere was a demo one for the army but I think it was deemed too big for them!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWThat's right we American like our big cars, even the Army.  I read that Cadillac made tanks in WWII for the army. We rode to combat in style in a Caddie.