One tough job

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I had to weld these 3" X 1 1/4" bars to the 1 1/2" base.  Rod is E80XX and of low hydoregen type.  I used 8018.  I tried to get some ER80S for the rest of the job, but could not find any.I was told to do the best I could.  I would like to hand the engineer the stick and have him show me how to do this.I had to show my cert for 3G unlimited thickness vertical up  for bare .045 wire with Co2.  (Its the only one I have)I used 15 lbs of 1/8" rod and the job took me all day to do 3 of them. Things looked better as I did more.  The first picture was the hardest one.  Look at the wasted rod in the bucket......I am leaving tomorrow morning to do another one, but I think the nuts will be off.135 amps arc force in the middle.  This is only part one of the job.  The slag was coming right off and I used a blow gun to keep the junk out of my way.DavidLast edited by David R; 08-23-2008 at 09:29 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I was wondering about the nuts.15 lbs is a lot of rod.  Ive never used an ER 80.. type rod.   Is that the choice because of the tensile trength or just what was asked? Id say you get all the fun jobs weld it like you own it
Reply:Will the nuts come off or go on after those plates are added? Looks awfull close there. Is this because they know of  weak spots? The whole base thing looks like after thought re-design. All that is their problem I know, just being super nosy.
Reply:And I just thought the last two days sucked.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I think I would have burned the bolts off flush with the nut, and then taken the nut off. Structural specs say you only need flush to 3 threads stick out on a bolt. A little duct tape around the bolt and weld away....Nice job in a tough spot.....
Reply:Today, I drove a chisel between the nut and the bar, once it was tight to the tower, I tacked it then we could take the nuts off.Today's rod was 5/32 atom arc 8018 at 190 amps.  I have no pictures of the completed weld now.  There is more to this job.Next is to weld the washer in the left of the picture to the base.  Its 1/2" and the base is 1 1/2"  3/8" fillet all the way around.  The washers were ground and on there today when I arrived. I did one today it took a lot of passes.   There are 15 of em.   The one in the picture I can slide 1/8" rod between the base and the washer. I ordered 50 lbs of 5/32, I have about 22 lbs left out of the first 50.  I charge the customer for the rod.  I have 50 lbs of 5/64 NR232 T8 wire.  Its 70,000 tensile strength. David Last edited by David R; 08-24-2008 at 05:48 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by lewrayI was wondering about the nuts.15 lbs is a lot of rod.  Ive never used an ER 80.. type rod.   Is that the choice because of the tensile trength or just what was asked? Id say you get all the fun jobs
Reply:That's a job for (minimum) 3/16" rod (or 7/32" or 1/4" if you have the machine to run them).Or better yet a high deposition flux core wire.If you have to quote that work against a dialed in outfit they will kill you on price. If you're hooked up you should be burning 15+ lbs. of stick before lunch, using wire you'll exceed that by 20% or more on in-position work.JTMcC.
Reply:Who is it that says "I get all the good jobs?" As Sandy stated "Is this because they know of weak spots? The whole base thing looks like after thought re-design."It looks like it might have been intended to be mounted using longer larger "fasteners" through the taller sleeves shown there. they go further up the trunk of the mast. But they've doubled up on smaller fastenings. Methinks they know something they might not be telling others.Or perhaps pans weren't read carefully when the base was done.How long are the 3" X 1 1/4" bars, they look to go quite a way up.I agree, no sense in suffering "Divine Intervention" when there's lightning around.I bet the preheat was a mission on its own!Last edited by Tractapac; 08-24-2008 at 07:43 PM.Reason: addition"One of the things we have to be thankful for is that we don't get as much government as we pay for." (Charles Kettering)Mitch 180 (NZ)Lincoln SAM-400-220 + ?-400 Fordson Major + 2 x Tractapac Humber 80 + Procut 40 PlasmaMiller Spectrum 375
Reply:David look into lincoln LA 90 i believe it cross references to a er80s-x --Gol'
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCThat's a job for (minimum) 3/16" rod (or 7/32" or 1/4" if you have the machine to run them).Or better yet a high deposition flux core wire.If you have to quote that work against a dialed in outfit they will kill you on price. If you're hooked up you should be burning 15+ lbs. of stick before lunch, using wire you'll exceed that by 20% or more on in-position work.JTMcC.
Reply:Originally Posted by TractapacWho is it that says "I get all the good jobs?" As Sandy stated "Is this because they know of weak spots? The whole base thing looks like after thought re-design."It looks like it might have been intended to be mounted using longer larger "fasteners" through the taller sleeves shown there. they go further up the trunk of the mast. But they've doubled up on smaller fastenings. Methinks they know something they might not be telling others.Or perhaps pans weren't read carefully when the base was done.How long are the 3" X 1 1/4" bars, they look to go quite a way up.I agree, no sense in suffering "Divine Intervention" when there's lightning around.I bet the preheat was a mission on its own!
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThey drilled the concrete today for those tubes on the first job.  The 1 1/4" bars probably go up 100'.  The towers are around 150 give or take.  All the ones made back then (90s), were designed for 1 antenna.  These have 4 or 5.  Lots more wind drag and ice load.  I am not an engineer.  The gussets on the second job are 3/4".  On the first they look like 7/8 or 1".The welds holding the gussets on the first one are crap.  The second job looks like they were migged and a nice job.  I will try to get some better pics when I am closer to done with the job.  A few more days of work there.This is the biggest challenge I have had thrown at me.....There is still more to this job.David
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI have a ranger 250, 3/16 8018 would pushing the envelope with that machine IF I could ever find it.  A vantage 300  would be nice.   Metal core, Self shielded T8 wire, or any other wire would be great, but today I couldn't have run anything with gas.  Wind was up pretty good and it doesn't take much.   I use Co2 with bare wire and some times run a LOT of CFH.  With the 3" bar, a little wind and I would have porosity. There is no way to get in there and grind it off.  Its not worth messing with.  The 1/2" washers, OH YEAH wire would be awesome.David
Reply:In other words, you can make a mid size machine act like a much bigger machine if you choose your consumables carefully. This really matters when you are hard bidding work against competitors or when you are short of time. Even if you don't have harsh competition, the faster you turn out quoted work, the more money you make and the more time you have for the next job. If you're working hourly, and using a slow process you are easy pickings for another welder who can do the work in less time/for less money.Time is money, fortunes are made and lost based on choice of consumable.JTMcC
Reply:Ugh, that looks like a real cluster on their part. How much longer do ya think you will be dumpin rod there?Yup
Reply:David, that's a pretty hairy looking job. They could have given you a damn can opener to get into those tight areas.....And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:Tractapac,  the white tanks are propane for the back up generators, nothing to do with me. The bars are totally bolted to the tower.  I have welded supports on up to 120', but not on this job.On THIS part of this job all I have to do is attach the 1 1/4" flat stock to the base of the tower.  I swear its a welding test.  Base is 1 1/2", Tower is 3/8", Gussets are 3/4"  Washers are 1/2"JTMcC, ALL I HAD available to me is 30 lbs 1/8" and 20 lbs 5/32" 8018.Bid the job?  I got a days notice for a weeks work.   I had no 8018, LWS had a little.  Finish welding the third bar today and work on the base washers.  Yesterday I was asked what my planned completion time was.  I had no answer.Yestereday they needed to drill the concrete for more anchor bolts.  They have 5 anchor mount assemblies that go on the 12 sided tower.  I was supposed to fit them and weld them to the tower before they drill.  I said please put the bolts in and THEN I will fit the mounts to the bolts.  Its a good thing because some holes are not where they originally intended.  That is the last part of this job.Gotta get there David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yeah, just because the product is in the catalog doesn't mean you can get it!Lincoln LA-90 is listed as AWS ER80S-D2, ER90S-D2,  and ER90S-G spec.  Not specifically a low hydrogen wire though.  Best properties with 95-5 Ar-O2 gas.  Multi-pass, and most (but not all) position rated.Lincoln LA-75 is AWS ER80S-Ni1 spec.  Best properties with 98-2 Ar-O2, multi-pass and most (but not all) position rated.  Listed as a good match for A588 weathering steels.Those are solid wires (obviously).Lincoln Outershield 81Ni1-H is AWS E81T1-Ni1MH8 spec, and lsited as a substitute for E8018-C3 stick electrodes.  It's low hydrogen, all-position, single or multi-pass, uses C25, CVN structural rated, color match for A588 weathering steels.Outershield 91K2-H is AWS E91T1-K2MH8 spec, low hydrogen, all position, single or multi-pass, uses C25 or 95-5 Ar-CO2, CVN structural rated, overmatch for HY80 steel, one typical listed application is cranes FWIW.And I kept looking for the round washers you were talking about, until I finally figured out you were refering to the pie-wedge plates.    Those washer/plates are 1/2 inch think and the 'main' base is 1.5 inch thick?  Man, that's some pretty thick material!Agreed that the whole job looks like an after-thought or attempt to beef-up the structure.  If it needs that much (attempted) beefing up, I think it's almost time to redo the whole tower base.  Hopefully their engineer(s) ran the numbers, including the loads going through the concrete base pad/pier, and aren't just looking at the tower and slapping steel on.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Sorry about the washer thing, I am a mechanic.  It goes below a nut, and a big one at that.I have to look harder for the bare wire.  The superintendent asked me again today if I had found any wire.  Problem is job is over tomorrow.  Whaddyagonnado?I picked up the lincoln rod I had ordered today in the middle of the day.  I don't even know what I paid for it.  I have pics, but just got home. 12 hours billed after taking out the 1.5 hour lunch.  What a Day.Tomorrow I have to weld a tool for them before I get there.  Its the thing they use to insert those bolts through the 1 1/4" plate from the OUTside.  David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:MoonRise, thanks for all that info. They have another one for me in a couple of weeks.  OK, here is the bar.  I think I Used the 5/32 on this one.One side of the boltOther sideDown da middle.5/32 Atom Arc 7018 190 amps.I get to tig weld tomorrow morning.  DavidLast edited by David R; 08-25-2008 at 09:44 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Washers Fitup wasn't too good on some.  This one had no bevel so I added some to the top to get a 3/8" weld.Gap.....I had to fill about 3/4" between the end of the washer and the gusset.  It took a lotta rod.Weld THROUGH THE CORNERS.  I leaned that here.  These washers add a lot.  They tell me when they fall, the base tears away from the 3/8" tower. Attached ImagesLast edited by David R; 08-25-2008 at 10:07 PM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:OK, I got it backwards.   This is what I started with.  The fire watch/ground hand took all them off and ground the bottom so each one fit flush.gap..Back side.  I took the nut off once it was welded on 2 sides.yes, I welded that copper wire on with 8018 Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:DANG!!!  How's the back and knees feelin'?MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55DANG!!!  How's the back and knees feelin'?Originally Posted by BurnitThats what I was thinkin, or your butt from sittin on that bucket.