Autobody with TIG

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We'll pick this up with the patch already made- i was origonally asked just to make the repair panel but time constraints led to me being asked to let the panel in too. The wing measures up as 23g FWIWThe panel itself is pretty simple (no compound curve below the swage line), the curve formed over a piece of tube with the 'sharper' bends being made using the radiused edge of some 1/8" wall box. Throwing the flange obviously pulled some of the shape out- 5 mins with a mechanical shrinker fixed thatThe slightly oversized patch roughly fittedWith it clamped in place the details of the bottom of the wing can be transferred. Draw around the patch before removing it. Cut the rot out staying inside of the line just drawn- it's easier to trim the patch for a good fit than the other way round. Clamp the patch back in place, turn the wing over and scribe the patch for the final trim line- take a rough cut first if more than 1/4" needs removing, minimum trim with decent snips should be around half the metals thicknessThe patch trimmed to fit and clamped in place for the initial tacks. Sorry 'bout the nasty bit of carpet- i'll be moving the around a lot from this point, it's to avoid scratching the paintYep, i messed up the swage line alignment- should've payed more attention to the good wing. I'll correct that (well, have a go at least) later- if this panel weren't hidden by the bumper it'd be quicker to start over given the simplicity of itThe gap i left by accident (measure twice cut once!!) isn't a problem on the corner- if it were in the middle of the panel it'd sink LOTS when welded. Looks worse than it is as the corner needs tapping overThe initial tacks, bizarrely the steel i made the patch from 'spat' some in placesA quick planish at this stage improves alignment for some more tacks...
Reply:Fully tacked, the porosity from the new patch is more obvious hereWelds are kept short, backstepped and skipped- weld order was left to right, welding direction right to left Planish any distortion out before filling in the spacesStill needs a little dolly work before blending out the weld- didn't have much of a choice here due to the porosity but i always use a little too much filler to be able planish it out completelyBackside of the panelIt got left there as it was a lovely day and the local woods were calling- went for a mountain bike ride.Last edited by hotrodder; 08-01-2008 at 06:29 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderIt got left there as it was a lovely day and the local woods were calling- went for a mountain bike ride.
Reply:That is a good job,  23 ga is small to tig.  Nice job making the piece you put in.I may have missed it, but filler?  amps?David Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Cheers guys,Yep, was a good ride- being a Fri evening very few horse riders/dog walkers around so i had the trails virtually to myselfThe swage line looks worse than it is in the pics as the marks from the 'clean 'n strip' disc effect light reflection but there's a definate 'peak' in the line. If it were a 'harder' line it'd be game over (for me anyway) but i reckon i can improve it with a little hammer and dolly work- the box section was used origonally as it had a good radius (used as a brake by clamping it to a table ) but it's not heavy enough to be used as a dollyBefore i do anything else to it i'll clean it up with some scotchbrite so the camera can capture the shape better. A ruler will help highlight the remaining distortionDavid,Nope you didn't miss it, filler was mentioned in Tractapacs' origonal post- 0.8mm MIG wire can't remember the exact flavour but probably er70s-6I don't normally bother stating amperage as it's one of several variables. Arc length, travel speed, even the machine makes a difference and it's often pedalled with TIG anyway. Bodywork often means a pedal is more grief than it's worth for me. I usually work on older cars so 19/20g is the norm. 29A on my v205-t with the 2T button, if i'm using a pedal i'll usually set the amps to 35. This was pedalled set at 29A max
Reply:Time for the part i love to hate, like wheeling panels it's very satisying but can be incredibly tedious on larger panels. Only thing i've done since the last pic is give the panel a quick once over with a scotchbrite hand pad- not necessary but helps with photos. No power tools were used from here out. The ruler shows the low spots near the weld and the still 'high' beadHammering 'off dolly' dealt with the swage line alignment- red line is hammer, yellow was a suitable dolly. The hammer pushes the metal down while the dolly (as long it's held FIRMLY against the panel) raisesLots of small blows are preferable to fewer large ones. Once the metal has moved enough even lighter blows are used 'on dolly' to planish out small irregulatiesMore planishing of the weld bead after a little light fillingAlmost there
Reply:Yep, this is a different pic, gotta sneak up on it- go too far and you'll have a stretched area to deal with. Shrinking in the middle of a panel ain't easyThis area didn't want to move much. A 'pick' hammer would raise it for finishing but also introduce a bunch of imperfections to boot. If i owned a 'bullseye pick' (gotta get one) i may have sorted it for the experience but i've already gone much farther than required by the customer as this will all be hidden anywaySo...i'm doneEdit: just as soon as i knock down the bead right at the bottom
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderYep, this is a different pic, gotta sneak up on it- go too far and you'll have a stretched area to deal with. Shrinking in the middle of a panel ain't easyThis area didn't want to move much. A 'pick' hammer would raise it for finishing but also introduce a bunch of imperfections to boot. If i owned a 'bullseye pick' (gotta get one) i may have sorted it for the experience but i've already gone much farther than required by the customer as this will all be hidden anywaySo...i'm doneEdit: just as soon as i knock down the bead right at the bottom
Reply:It's not that late, almost 1am. I don't do mornings now i work for myself anywayAfter a quick coat of etch i'm done, i might fill the low area i left (red circle). Origonally the owner was gonna MIG the patch in himself but his cars in bits and he's running out of time to finish it. I doubt he'll bother with a skim of filler as it's hidden- probably just a coat of high build before DAing it and blowing it in
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThat is a good job,  23 ga is small to tig.  Nice job making the piece you put in.I may have missed it, but filler?  amps?David
Reply:Originally Posted by bordenI've never done bodywork before....
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderEmmm,...Compared with the likes of White, Butler, Fournier, Covell etc i'm a bungling idiot but if you do a little research you'll find that most, if not all of the GREAT metal shapers use oxy fuel and/or TIG Luck had nothing to do with it!!!
Reply:Sounds like you got some info (i'd guess that Fournier and Covell are distinct enough last names to work alone but they're both Rons). Kent White is the man behind Tinmantech, Fay Butler is widely known for powerhammer work- there's a series of videos of him on youtube though there's clips of all of them in action. I can't believe i left John Glover off that list last night- he's a Brit, and THE man on the wheel. Slightly lower key publicity wise than the othersWhen you're close running a body/vixen file over the area will highlight the lows by not cutting them. Large lows (area wise) are easily bumped up, small ones can be a little trickier. With the tiny contact area (yeah, around 5-6mm) from a regular pick hammer aim is critical- it's easy to make things worse with a poorly aimed blow and as the hammer is on the other side of the panel...Bullseye picks make aim a no brainer. They're available from various places- you'll find pics/video of them on both the Rons sites, Eastwood etc. Kind of expensive for what they are but easy enough to make. Of course access always dictates what's possibleRon Covell was in Blighty recently for a workshop at F H Ellis coachworks. I managed to blag my way in at the last minute due to a last minute drop out and knowing the organisers . It's not the sort of thing i would have planed to go to (not that i wouldn't learn anything, but it's more of a seminar than a 'hands on' workshop) but it was MUCH better than i'd expected, a good craic over the 2 days if a little humbling- obviously everything looks easier than it is but the speed and accuracy the guy works at while appearing to work slowly (less haste, more speed!) is an eye opener...There's around 5-10 mins on average between each pic for the 200sx wing. At the workshop Ron made a panel, cut a hole in it and then patched it (similar method to what i used but he left all the distortion till he was finished welding. It was completely metal finished (good enough for paint!) in around 15 mins. When he was down to filing to find the lows instead of having to 'find' his mark by feel the tool was just speed around the panel with a quick tap at each low- easily seen from the file marks with the 'sighting window' in the hammer. A round of hammering took secs before a quick swipe with the file and repeating
Reply:Interesting.A combination of filing the top of the weld bead and then careful beatings   to persuade the sheet metal back into the desired flatness?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Yeah, pretty much but thankfully there's usually a fair amount of shape in a panel so it's more a case of the desired curvature than flatness. You don't really swing a body hammer, hit it too hard (especially 'on dolly') and you end up stretching the area- either more than desired or when you want to only move metal rather than stretch it. Ideally the file is only used to identify the last remaining low spots once well into the metal finishing stage. I tend to be fighting my instincts to maintain an even weld profile with regular additions of filler when doing this sort of work, despite it being unecessary. Adding filler sporadically, just enough to prevent porosity/losing panel thickness results in a weld bead that'll virtually dissapear during the following hammer and dolly work. You can typically get away with less filler using O/A but then there's a bit more distortion to deal with so swings and roundabouts between the two IMO
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodder You can typically get away with less filler using O/A but then there's a bit more distortion to deal with so swings and roundabouts between the two IMO