Cylinder Rod end

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This came off a "Terramite" backhoe.  Its a little thing.  They own 2, I did one last year.All cleaned up ready for weldingTacked in placeThis is the only way I know how to square the end to the rodReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I wrapped the rod in wet rags to keep it cool.  Here is the first passAnd the job complete.  It took about 6 passes.  I went from the side up to the centerArcmaster 185 set on full tilt, 3/32 electrode and filler.  I only used all the amps to start the puddle.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:David - two questions here.In the last picture with the rag on the shaft.  Is that a scratch or a crack?  The other question is how do you approach welding the pin boss to keep it from warping?  Do you skip around?  Thanks
Reply:... Is that a scratch or a crack?
Reply:Other than building a jig, that's the absolute best way to square the rod end.  If you have the piece of equipment handy, it can be tacked while temped. to the backhoe.As far as the weld goes, it looks as if the grinding was done to more of a chisel point than a needle point.  The welds would then be one on each side of the bevel to apply opposite heating.  The rod end would stay centered that way.Usually when I weld round stock I don't go around with the weld, but weld on opposite sides until the grind profile is filled.  Go around, and the thing will pull all over the place.Maybe David can clear that up.That ain't no crack"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:#1, that is not a crack, its where the old weld was, its the edge of the weld on the piece with a hole in it.  No other cracks#2,  I welded each side from the side up turning the rod each time so it pulled evenly on both sides.  This makes four beads per layer each opposite of the other.  I have a positioner, but didn't want to mess with chucking it.#3,   I did extend the rod all the way out with air.See the blue on the rod from the heat?  That is as far as I let it go.  The rod retracts about as far as where the blue rag is.  No scratches or blue in that area.  As far as the chisel point or needle point, I was welding round to round, so I ground it round.  I wanted more surface area than the original weld which in my opinion was not enough.  Look at the first pic where it broke.  Not much weld and impossible to get in deep enough to hold unless the fillet was made bigger.  By grinding a taper, I got more weld all the way around the rod and more weld on the round piece on the end.  Its ground like a center punch with a flat on the end, not like a chisel with a flat on the end.The first two beads were 1/4 of the rod on the same side because I needed to pull it that way a teeny bit. Post #2 pic #1.The part fit just fine when the customer installed it.  Musta been square.I forgot, total time 1 hour.ThanksDavid Last edited by David R; 09-28-2008 at 10:00 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Good job David, thanks.....Mike
Reply:David, This is why I enjoy this site.  A simple, but well documented repair andsome reasonable discussion about technique. Well done,George
Reply:The only way to sq the end?Whats wrong with a speed sq?
Reply:Originally Posted by admsweldingThe only way to sq the end?Whats wrong with a speed sq?
Reply:Great job Dave.Thanks for posting it upMiller DVI2Lincoln Precision Tig 225Thermodynamics Cutmaster 38Everything else needed.
Reply:So... does anybody use a chisel point for that job.  I get a couple a year.  It would make for more flat welding and less uphill.ThanksDavid Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:you did a fine job i have at least 100 that way none have had the weld fail,that i know ofgood jobChuckASME Pressure Vessel welder
Reply:So... does anybody use a chisel point for that job....
Reply:i usually weld them with a chisel point,  have yet to have a return over itBill BerryKeith Berry & Son Ltd.machine work, and weldingBear River Vollunteer FD
Reply:Originally Posted by David R#1, that is not a crack, its where the old weld was, its the edge of the weld on the piece with a hole in it.  No other cracks#2,  I welded each side from the side up turning the rod each time so it pulled evenly on both sides.  This makes four beads per layer each opposite of the other.  I have a positioner, but didn't want to mess with chucking it.#3,   I did extend the rod all the way out with air.See the blue on the rod from the heat?  That is as far as I let it go.  The rod retracts about as far as where the blue rag is.  No scratches or blue in that area.  As far as the chisel point or needle point, I was welding round to round, so I ground it round.  I wanted more surface area than the original weld which in my opinion was not enough.  Look at the first pic where it broke.  Not much weld and impossible to get in deep enough to hold unless the fillet was made bigger.  By grinding a taper, I got more weld all the way around the rod and more weld on the round piece on the end.  Its ground like a center punch with a flat on the end, not like a chisel with a flat on the end.The first two beads were 1/4 of the rod on the same side because I needed to pull it that way a teeny bit. Post #2 pic #1.The part fit just fine when the customer installed it.  Musta been square.I forgot, total time 1 hour.ThanksDavid
Reply:Nice Job David.  I do them all the time, and I tend to bevel the shaft to a chisel as well.  I tack it up and then alternate sides between passes to keep it straight.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Originally Posted by David RThe piece on the end of the rod is too short to be sure I get it right.  I am a bit of a clutz.I can get it straighter with a 4' piece than a 4" piece that goes across the rod.Maybe its just me.David
Reply:Originally Posted by duaneb55David,Try this sometime if you'd like:Using a framing square, set the inside edge of the short leg against the outside edge of the rod end with the long leg running along side and parallel to the cylinder rod.  Measure from the cylinder rod to the inside edge of the square near the rod end and match that distance at the end of the square's long leg to the cylinder rod to square things up.  Check as needed as you go.  Works with any round or square tubing too.  To avoid measurement errors, one or more equal spacers clamped to the rod can be used to help make things a little easier as well.  If still not comfortable with just using the shorter rod eye, turn the square around and use the short leg against your usual longer piece running through the rod end.BTW, nice job as usual.
Reply:Once you have it squared off, take and weld up a jig. Use a piece of roundstock that fits the eyelet on the end. Then take and cut off a piece of angle to run a length down the rod. Once it is fitted up, weld the angle to the roundstock (with appropriate clearance for the eyelet). So next time you clamp the angle to the rod, slide the eyelet over your roundstock, position and weld. No more measuring tape.Although, if you only do one a year....maybe the tape isn't so bad.hehehe.Have fun. Thanks for posting!Lincoln Power Mig 210MP MIGLincoln Power Mig 350MP - MIG and Push-PullLincoln TIG 300-300Lincoln Hobby-Weld 110v  Thanks JLAMESCK TIG TORCH, gas diffuser, pyrex cupThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 101My brain
Reply:Good use of 3-4-5 on a larger scale to ensure a 90 deg angle.  Although you say that the iffy looking thing in the last pic is not a scratch and is 'just' the edge of the old weld, it still isn't a good thing.  It is a discontinuity of some sort in the metal, and discontinuities are places where things tend to go 'bad'.  For hard highly-stressed (aka  big relative loads/forces/pressures) items, a discontinuity could be as simple as a relatively small surface scratch.  Think of how a piece of glass is often 'cut', you score/scratch it and then the glass will snap/break along the score/scratch line when you slightly bend the glass or tap along the line.And that 'old' weld line is right along the toe of your new welds. I would have suggested grinding/smoothing out that area a little better.  Or grooving it out and then run a new bead in the groove and making sure everything was tied-in and fused well.  For that extra piece-of-mind and all.Did the ID of the rod-end mess up after the welding, or was the mass of the tube and the big squareing round bar through the tube enough to keep it OK?  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...