Stick welding a thing of the past.

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I have been looking all over for a REASONABLY priced used welder/generator. I have been picking up some extra jobs from local farmers. Went to numerous welding supply stores and have asked about the prices of stick welder/generators. Just about everyone of the sales reps have told me the stick welding process has run its course and will be something in the past, everything is going in the wire welding direction. I have a Lincolin 215 and a Millermatic 200 both are fine machines, but I don't want to haul them out in a field to fix farm machinery. Has anyone else heard that Arc welding is being phased out....
Reply:Originally Posted by GearheadI have been looking all over for a REASONABLY priced used welder/generator. I have been picking up some extra jobs from local farmers. Went to numerous welding supply stores and have asked about the prices of stick welder/generators. Just about everyone of the sales reps have told me the stick welding process has run its course and will be something in the past, everything is going in the wire welding direction. I have a Lincolin 215 and a Millermatic 200 both are fine machines, but I don't want to haul them out in a field to fix farm machinery. Has anyone else heard that Arc welding is being phased out....
Reply:Welding with stick electrodes will always be around but for production work it is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.  Many/most larger portable welding machines as well as larger power supplies have a SMAW ( constant current)option on their current selection.  My guess is that any unit that only provides CC will be out of production in another ten years.
Reply:I severely doubt that it will ever be phased out. Yes, it is declining, but it has way too many places where it shines much brighter than wire. Try scaling the side of a building with a feeder. Been there and it would never work. Too much weight and bulk.I too am guilty of the wire deal. My Bobcat runs more wire than rods now. I bet I have used all of 2 pounds of 7018's this year. Wire...now that is a different animal.  Gonna maybe burn a few pounds of wire today, too. And FWIW....never listen to sales reps. I have too many that think they are God's gift to welding...but have never struck an arc.
Reply:I think a lot of those salesmen are NOTHING more than "SALESMEN". think they're too good to soil their hands. And would be down the street tomorrow , selling shoes , if they could get 50 cents/hour more. I usually pay little attention to what they say, unless i know they was a weldor.
Reply:stick welding will NEVER be "replaced" in my honest opinion... if you do what i do on a regular basis then sometimes stick is the only way..we fix stuff that will never be clean enough no matter what you do ... so...200 amps will suffice... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Absolutely, sometimes you physically can't get at the piece with a wire gun, it has to be stick. Having said that, in a production environment it is being phased out. The rep gets more commission selling MIG anyways
Reply:A very well known tank welding outfit worked in our plant this year on a 17 ft diameter vacuum vessel splicing in a new section to make it taller. I was quite surprised the entire repair was done with stick electrode as it seemed to be an ideal candidate for a mechanized feeder. The reason I was given was the required quality could not be guaranteed if his welders used feeders. (old metal/new metal, fit up, and possibility of trapping slag, lots of out of position welding in a very dusty and dirty environment)This tank required 4 weldors per shift on back to back 12 hour shifts using 5/32" electrodes, welding 1" rolled plate around the circumference, 100% welds in 2 places, back gouged and re-welded. If stick welding is fading out, no one told these guys, they did an excellent job and in record time. We lost no production time with this outage. I still am very impressed.
Reply:Am i right in assuming this vessel was upright , so as to weld horizontally ? I think i can see why they "sticked" it .
Reply:Ok, heres my stance.   First off, Gearhead, what part of the world do you live in?    Second, TIG aint going nowhere, neither is stick.  But more importantly tig aint.  If you cant rid yourself of TIG you cant rid yourself of CC because TIG runs on CC.   Now, one may project that the consumables would no longer be offered.  Yet this will never happen, and if it did, one must remember there was a time when we had non-coated rods.   Yes, stick wont go anywhere.  However, I was told back in 2001 by a reliable source, the poundage of SMAW consumables, while one of the smaller groups of all consumables, is greater than it was back in the 30's and 40's when stick welding was the king of welding.  If the poundage of smaw is greater now than back in the 40's  how in the world are we gonna loose it.  THere are other issues, like you ever get into a discussion with JTMcC, Mr McCracken will tell you about the disadvantages of wire in the cases on the pipelines when they tried to say its faster and just as good for cheaper than smaw.  Well they have had a lot of welding repairs, enough to really question the cost of the faster process and the consumables.  Anway, enough ramblings.   Stick wont go nowhere   IMHO its here to stayIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Always remember how to tell when ANY salesman is lying: WHEN HIS LIPS MOVE!!!!           MikeOl' Stonebreaker  "Experience is the name everyone gives to their mistakes"Hobart G-213 portableMiller 175 migMiller thunderbolt ac/dc stick Victor O/A setupMakita chop saw
Reply:Even if stick were to go.....I would hold on tight...I love stickin'. Theres something about a nice 6010 run, just making it do WHATEVER you want it to. It's a beautiful thing.Miller blue star 2eLincoln 175
Reply:mud..oil...grease...stick it....in the  field under the combine scabbing a  shaft  together  so you can  keep going  till the replacement comes in the morning...stick...you couldn't get a  gun in there to save your  lifemy  old hobart with the  willies jeep engine or my newer linchon 250 never sit  idle too long...stick will be  here longer than you and i
Reply:Stick will dissappear when it cost too much to make the electrodes except production would just get moved to china.  LOL  I guess stick will be here for long time.  You might try Home Depot for a cheap engine drive stick welder.  they had a Lincoln for $750 a while back.DennisThermal Arc 185-TSWMillermatic Challenger 172VictorO/AAtlas Craftsman 12 by 24 LatheEsab PCM-875Wholesalem Tool Mill-Drill
Reply:"Stick" welding will ALWAYS be needed for obvious reasons, and for not so obvious reasons... For instance, and Roy could probably vouch for me on this: Has any one tried to perform "mirror" welding in any possible circumstance with a MIG gun? You may be able to get away with welding with one mirror if there's enough space to jam in the gun but ,most of the time when you need a mirror to weld or repair, you do'nt have the luxury!!! Do'nt even think about trying MIG when welding with more than one mirror!!! For me it's either "Stick" or TIG if a "mirror" repair has to done on pipe that was previously TIG welded. The real motive behind all this BS coming from these sales people is because there is much more "after" initial power source sale - profit margin for these MIG/Flux cored "pushers"!!! Think about the gases, the contact tips, the anti-spatter compounds and all the other "accessories" that these "actors" push on you  by stating that: "you're definitely gonna need to use a Tri mix if you want to minimize or even eliminate spatter around your welds but just in case, here's some really inexpensive anti-spatter gel or spray to ensure your welds to be spatter free!!!" Well - if you fall for that line of "Elephant Dung" then, you need to visit Ed Craig's website: http://www.weldreality.com  in order to get "educated" about the real facts, myths, advantages, disadvantages, applications and limitations with respect to the MIG/flux cored welding processes. Man!!! I could go on and on but, why bother???  SMAW otherwise known as "Stick" welding is and will always be here in this world!!! As far as out of this world goes, who knows?  Respectfully,SSBN727Last edited by SSBN727; 07-01-2006 at 02:46 AM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:And to reiterate from what has been asked in the past, stick-smaw is also called MMA.   I do believe its manual metal arc.  They all mean the same.   They can be used equally.    Though not all folks will identify with all of these terms, they are all correct.IF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:Hey TxRedneck!Yeppers! "MMA" is the old British or BS, currently the EN designation for stick welding these days.Respectfully,SSBN727"Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by TxRedneckAnd to reiterate from what has been asked in the past, stick-smaw is also called MMA.   I do believe its manual metal arc.  They all mean the same.   They can be used equally.    Though not all folks will identify with all of these terms, they are all correct.
Reply:We've got these wire welder's at work ATM  I'm unimpressed, on 60" pipe it takes twice as long to weld than with stick But I must admit it makes us look good  Stick is going no where, in fact it's becoming more sort after because there's a lot the wire CAN'T do, just get it out into the field and take a look, but avoid doing tie-in's with it.StephenI'd rather be hunting........USE ENOUGH HEAT.......Drifting around Aussie welding more pipe up, for something different.....wanting to get home.
Reply:As a "hobby welder", I look for opportunities to use and practice stick welding. There's someting nice about a well-done bead stick bead. I also like the fact that there's no expensive shielding gas required. Pretty hard combination to beat for my little projects. I also have TIG, MIG and O-A but I have the most fun with stick.
Reply:gnm109 ITTO !        i mean , i feel the same way         & how did that stupid face get in here ? (i did not put it in )Last edited by Roy Hodges; 07-05-2006 at 11:44 AM.[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by SSBN727"Stick" welding will ALWAYS be needed for obvious reasons, and for not so obvious reasons... For instance, and Roy could probably vouch for me on this: Has any one tried to perform "mirror" welding in any possible circumstance with a MIG gun? You may be able to get away with welding with one mirror if there's enough space to jam in the gun but ,most of the time when you need a mirror to weld or repair, you do'nt have the luxury!!! Do'nt even think about trying MIG when welding with more than one mirror!!! For me it's either "Stick" or TIG if a "mirror" repair has to done on pipe that was previously TIG welded. The real motive behind all this BS coming from these sales people is because there is much more "after" initial power source sale - profit margin for these MIG/Flux cored "pushers"!!! Think about the gases, the contact tips, the anti-spatter compounds and all the other "accessories" that these "actors" push on you  by stating that: "you're definitely gonna need to use a Tri mix if you want to minimize or even eliminate spatter around your welds but just in case, here's some really inexpensive anti-spatter gel or spray to ensure your welds to be spatter free!!!" Well - if you fall for that line of "Elephant Dung" then, you need to visit Ed Craig's website: http://www.weldreality.com  in order to get "educated" about the real facts, myths, advantages, disadvantages, applications and limitations with respect to the MIG/flux cored welding processes. Man!!! I could go on and on but, why bother???  SMAW otherwise known as "Stick" welding is and will always be here in this world!!! As far as out of this world goes, who knows?  Respectfully,SSBN727
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodgeshow did that stupid face get in here ? (i did not put it in )
Reply:Originally Posted by Roy Hodges... i told my boss, "i can do 1/2 of it -right handed , then you need to get a left handed guy to weld the last half". ...
Reply:howdy ssbn   good to see ya friendIF it Catches...Let it BurnOriginally Posted by MAC702I've been there...Working by myself...
Reply:Hey fellas! ease up on us salesmen will ya! Not all of us are full of S--T! I was fortunate to go through tech school for welding in the mid 80's, then spent 4 years under the hood, and the last 15 years in sales. I love my job, and enjoy dealing with people who weld for a living. My favorite part is after I get done with my presentation, is to put on a helmet and go to town. If you've got a sales guy pumping you full of BS, tell him to put on a helmet, as an old ironworker friend put it to me, "when the helmet drops, the bull--it stops"
Reply:Originally Posted by DDA52Been there, but not a problem. Ambidexterity has its advantages.  I switched hands once while taking a cert test and the inspector saw me do it. He made me take the test with both hands.  Good thing I passed both of them.
Reply:Howdy TxRednecK!!!Thanks for the welcome and your support pal!!!Man is that other website going downhill in a bad way these days but heck, they asked for it!!!I did'nt know that you worked on Submarines MAC702???A BIIIIG "YARDBIRD" SHOUT OUT to ya Roy Hodges!!!!  Yeppers!!! Mare Island was (now I do'nt know about these days) one of the few yards where "Nuke" boats were built and also one of two yards in the country that did some work on experimental research submarines... They also decommishioned and scrapped most of the older attack and "Boomer" boats so, the only other yard that had as much expertise on US Navy "Nuke" submarines is EB (For us East Coast Yardbirds, EB stands for "everything backwards" - hence the use of mirrors!) General Dynamics-Electric Boat Division up in "Rotten" Groton, CT... the only other yard that can do some of the work and not all is Newport News but, they do'nt do "Boomers"!!!Yeah it's good to meet another "Yard bird" who had to do the same type of work that anyone else unfamiliar with in submarines would just scratch their heads and wonder how is that humanly possible!!!BTw, did ya ever "meet Hymie" as I used to call him (Admiral Hymie Rickover)?I only had the HONOR to meet him three times when I worked @ EB mostly in the "wet docks" but, also once on the "26" boat (SSBN726 - USS Ohio) because of it being a prototype, and all of the delays associated with one...First thing he asked me was: "Son! let me see your Tempsticks!!!"I've seen him personally escort many a welder off a boat that got caught without "wearing them" or not using them when they had to!!!He was a real sneaky SOB, and ya never heard him crawl into a tank if you were already inside but, ya had to love him for his tenacity - RIP "Hymie" Sir!!! (Although, I would never call him that to his face when he was with us)...Roy, I'm glad that I do'nt have to work with the "Hangerbanger" crews these days because, nowadays I don't think that I could reach most of the work due to my increased size over the years but, it sure was a daily challenge back then when you did'nt know what job you had to do from day to day and that's what made it so interesting work back then!!!To be young again like some of these "whipper snappers" who are online these days!!!  I do remember the days when we old farts were the same fearless SOB's that these youngsters seem to brag about being, and then before ya know it - you settle down and start using your marbles instead of your wreckless, blind courage - especially after ya learned from some rather nasty experiences!!! Anywho, It's good to know ya fellow "Yardbird"!!! To hell with those know it all "Squids" who I myself used to be one of them before I got out of the USN to work for EB!!! BTW, try mirror welding with your weak hand!!! It's a hell of a lot different than welding without one with your weak hand, and much less forgiving!!! Respectfully,SSBN727Last edited by SSBN727; 07-06-2006 at 03:01 AM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:Originally Posted by SSBN727I did'nt know that you worked on Submarines MAC702???
Reply:Originally Posted by SSBN727I did'nt know that you worked on Submarines MAC702???
Reply:An officer and a gentleman I presumeIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:now your just a welder... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:[QUOTE=SSBN727]Howdy TxRednecK!!!Thanks for the welcome and your support pal!!!Man is that other website going downhill in a bad way these days but heck, they asked for it!!!I did'nt know that you worked on Submarines MAC702???A BIIIIG "YARDBIRD" SHOUT OUT to ya Roy Hodges!!!!  Yeppers!!! Mare Island was (now I do'nt know about these days) one of the few yards where "Nuke" boats were built and also one of two yards in the country that did some work on experimental research submarines... They also decommishioned and scrapped most of the older attack and "Boomer" boats so, the only other yard that had as much expertise on US Navy "Nuke" submarines is EB (For us East Coast Yardbirds, EB stands for "everything backwards" - hence the use of mirrors!) General Dynamics-Electric Boat Division up in "Rotten" Groton, CT... the only other yard that can do some of the work and not all is Newport News but, they do'nt do "Boomers"!!!Yeah it's good to meet another "Yard bird" who had to do the same type of work that anyone else unfamiliar with in submarines would just scratch their heads and wonder how is that humanly possible!!!BTw, did ya ever "meet Hymie" as I used to call him (Admiral Hymie Rickover)?I only had the HONOR to meet him three times when I worked @ EB mostly in the "wet docks" but, also once on the "26" boat (SSBN726 - USS Ohio) because of it being a prototype, and all of the delays associated with one...First thing he asked me was: "Son! let me see your Tempsticks!!!"I've seen him personally escort many a welder off a boat that got caught without "wearing them" or not using them when they had to!!!He was a real sneaky SOB, and ya never heard him crawl into a tank if you were already inside but, ya had to love him for his tenacity - RIP "Hymie" Sir!!! (Although, I would never call him that to his face when he was with us)...Roy, I'm glad that I do'nt have to work with the "Hangerbanger" crews these days because, nowadays I don't think that I could reach most of the work due to my increased size over the years but, it sure was a daily challenge back then when you did'nt know what job you had to do from day to day and that's what made it so interesting work back then!!!To be young again like some of these "whipper snappers" who are online these days!!!  I do remember the days when we old farts were the same fearless SOB's that these youngsters seem to brag about being, and then before ya know it - you settle down and start using your marbles instead of your wreckless, blind courage - especially after ya learned from some rather nasty experiences!!! Anywho, It's good to know ya fellow "Yardbird"!!! To hell with those know it all "Squids" who I myself used to be one of them before I got out of the USN to work for EB!!! BTW, try mirror welding with your weak hand!!! It's a hell of a lot different than welding without one with your weak hand, and much less forgiving!!! Respectfully,SSBN727...........can you remeber having to weld in the forward trim tank, or in the rear of the conformal array  ? those places so tight ,that i was always in fear of my clothes catching fire , it would take so long to get out....scary to even think about . Or ..air arcing in the lead bins ? these young guys don't have any idea of some of the jobs SOME welders have to do . Or , how about arcing out the old draft gear lug stops in a railroad car , that's horible stuff, too .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:yeah, railroad repair was the worst , i think .[SIZE="5"Yardbird"
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsternow your just a welder... ...zap!
Reply:Hey Roy!INDEED DO I REMEMBER!!! Especially the part about getting burned and not being able to get out of the way in time!!! I still got the scars to prove it!!The comments you made in your last post are DEFINITELY CORRECT SIR!!! Some people can talk the talk but, they don't know nothing about walking the walk if ya get my drift!!! Hey MAC702, Could you be more specific regarding your exposure to USN - submarines? If you did'nt refer to it as work, what did you do there while you were with the USN??? Have you ever been on a submarine, or worked on one or were assigned to one, when you were in the service? I'm not talking about the ones that have already been turned into a museum!Respectfully,SSBN727 Let's see how deep we can go!!!Last edited by SSBN727; 07-07-2006 at 02:24 PM."Run Silent...  Run Deep!!!
Reply:SSBN,Yeah I know what you mean about that other site.   Its really ridiculous.   No need to go into details.   Its just really gone downhill    nuff saidGlad you have joined us thoughIF it Catches...Let it Burn
Reply:you mean there's actually other sites on the web?  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:shoot, I don't even know about what other site all you guys are referring to, but, I do know one thing for sure, stick welding is definitely NOT a thing of the past. GMAW gets so talked up its rediculous. I had someone a while back day tell me they'd give me the job (piddly 14 hour job too, not a big contract) if I showed up with wire and all my own gas. I asked if FCAW would be fine and they said no, had to be solid, I asked why and he said he didn't have time to waste and any other method would take too long. Naturally, I asked what shop / yard they were, they aren't in a yard, they're on a barge on the river. I tried to explain the situation but the management wouldn't have anything to do with listening about how wind and solid wire w/ shielding gas don't mix. All I could do was tell him to call me if he ever wanted it done right. The best I could figure out was some guy planted a bug in his ear about GMAW being the best process
Reply:lol  thats funny coal.   very true thoughIF it Catches...Let it Burn