the hell is a non-critical weld?

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hey now.im reading all this info about rods and i keep hearing the phrase "non-critica weldsl." i was reasearching what rod i could buy that doesnt need to be baked, re-baked, or heated everytime i want to use it and that phrase came up a lot. what the hell is non-critical? i hear people say "i use 7018 for critical welds, but for non critical applications like welding buckets onto a back-hoe i use 6013"?!?!?!?!?!?! isnt that kinda critical? maybe not defcom 4 critical. no need to go hide under the matress critical. but still, anything moving on machinery sounds critical to me...im not questioning what rods im gonna use (6013 for all you sportsfans keeping score. according to miller's stick welding calculator they are good for 40-90amps and well, i have a small 120 dcep welder so that sounds like a good fit) but im just curious what a "non critical weld" isedit: i see that phrase a lot, but it really stuck out to me in this thread-  http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...highlight=7018Last edited by outlawskinnyd; 04-22-2011 at 10:08 PM.the grand ol' opry aint so grand anymoremiller maxstar 150sworking on an oxy/acet set up
Reply:I would a gree that all welds are "critical" just some are more than others.  When you start looking at things as non critical its like saying good enough or if it breaks o well.  Not me I take it personally when I F something up or dont do as good as I could.  By the way I don't bake my rods which are mostly 6011 and 7014Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Most people would define a "critical weld" as one that has a high probablity of killing or injuing someone, or causing a large monetary damage if it fails. If a weld on the trailer fails and the trailer goes off on it's own, thats usually bad. Same with the frame/suspension breaking on a vehicle at 60 or 70 mph.Beams, bridge welds, structural components of buildings and so on. Vehicle frames, suspension components, trailers and such just to name a few.If the weld tears out on a bucket, there's probably very little chance it will injure someone (I still wouldn't choose 6013 for that). I might see an issue if it was for a lifting eye on a bucket, but I wouldn't have someone that close to something I'd be lifting that way anyways. If the deck on your mower cracks again it's probably inconvienient, not life threatening.Personally I like 7014 as opposed to 6013 as a general rod. It's all position, runs easily, doesn't need to be kept hot, and is stronger than 6013, If the job is in any way important, I just buy 7018 and be done with it. The 7014, 6010/11 etc I keep on hand is for emergency work in bad weather. Say the blade on the plow broke and it needs to be fixed yesterday to make me money. I've torn up the blade enough times at 15mph to know it's unlikely it will cause  a major issue if things go sideways unexpectedly. If I F'd up the mount however, I'd probably make do in the emergency and cut it all out ASAP and weld it up with 7018 or the mig. If the A frame goes thru the oil pan because a weld failed on the mount, I'm seriously F'd.Note that a lot of "critical" things are welded with 6013. It's used for pipe in the UK IIRC. In general most error on the side of caution and choose a low hydrogen rod like 7018 to cover their azz if it's important. Try explaining why you were, lazy/cheap in a court of law because something went wrong and the other side is asking why you didn't choose a rod thats usually accepted as code for many things..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sometimes one can look at it another way using the term primary structures and secondary structures.  In strucutural often they don't worry about secondary structures.. Well not as much anyway.  Secondary would be things like facia on the outside of a building, hand railing, supports for pipes and ventilation ducts.  You want a good weld but not critical on secondary structures.
Reply:Critical weld usually means that if your weld fails then either you or some innocent bystander is likely to be hurt.  (e.g.  If you weld something on an airpalne and it fails at 10000 feet in the air then the outcome is likely to not be good.  If you weld something on a cargo trailer and it fails at 65 mph then the outcome is not likely to be good.  If you weld something on a plow or disc and it fails in the agricultural field then probably no big deal since you are easily likely to survive the whopping 4mph rate of speed that you were traveling when plowing and no one else is endangered in the process either).I love 7014, but it typically likes a few more amps as compared to 6011 or 6013.  With a limited 120 welder, you might find 6011 and 6013 more useable - 6011 for rusty/dirty metal and 6013 for thinner metal that is clean.  7018AC is nice for more exotic alloy steels, but not necessary for common everyday common steel and 7018 can be tempermental to run on even the best of welding power supplies which it appears you do not have anyway so 7018 is likely to be even more tempermental on your welding power source.  I personally do not fool with any 7018 due to the rod storage requirements of it.  6011, 6013, and 7014 are my goto arc rods for common steel.Last edited by rankrank1; 04-22-2011 at 11:48 PM.
Reply:Critical welds like on pressure boiler tubing, bridges, airplanes etc are something that most folks on this message boards are not qualified to do.Non critical welds like the plow frame, mower deck, or shelf under the weld table are what we all do more regularily. I use 7018 for almost all carbon steel weld jobs. The only other rod I will run on ocation for carbon steel is 6010.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:Critical - serious injury or serious money if it fails.Super Critical - one of your kids is injured or it's your money.Non critical - your brother in law is injured or loses serious money.
Reply:Critical welds could be welds where porosity can't be tolerated (x-ray quality), or where high stresses or vibration may be encountered that would cause a weak or brittle weld to fail. You are fine with the E6013 rods on dcen for light metal, or E6010/6011 on dcep for deeper penetration. The only rods requiring an oven are the low hydrogen (E7018) rods. Even those can't be reconditioned at storage oven temperature once they have picked up moisture from the atmosphere.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rich59Critical - serious injury or serious money if it fails.Super Critical - one of your kids is injured or it's your money.Non critical - your brother in law is injured or loses serious money.
Reply:7018 can be re-dried. from the LE website, "When the electrodes are exposed to the air, they will pickup moisture and should be redried."http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...es-detail.aspx7018 is the most common low hydrogen rod, but not the only kind. I use 7028 on the job almost daily. We use 7014 on bridging only because of the restrike superiority of that rod. We SHOULD use 7018 for its superior flexibility. We often dont because we are under pressure to get it done quickly.The superior yield strength of 7018 also makes it the best choice for welding dogs for the dog and wedge application. 7018 is anything but tempermental. Second to 7014, it is an very user friendly rod.Most of you would be shocked to know how many structural welds are done everyday, including critical welds, with 7018 that has been sitting out for days. I usually find time to keep the rod oven full and fresh rods in my pouch. I am not the norm for my trade.Weldanpower 225 G7Ironworkers Local #24
Reply:Originally Posted by tenpins7018 can be re-dried. from the LE website, "When the electrodes are exposed to the air, they will pickup moisture and should be redried."http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...es-detail.aspx7018 is the most common low hydrogen rod, but not the only kind. I use 7028 on the job almost daily. We use 7014 on bridging only because of the restrike superiority of that rod. We SHOULD use 7018 for its superior flexibility. We often dont because we are under pressure to get it done quickly.The superior yield strength of 7018 also makes it the best choice for welding dogs for the dog and wedge application. 7018 is anything but tempermental. Second to 7014, it is an very user friendly rod.Most of you would be shocked to know how many structural welds are done everyday, including critical welds, with 7018 that has been sitting out for days. I usually find time to keep the rod oven full and fresh rods in my pouch. I am not the norm for my trade.
Reply:Years ago people would have an old non-working refrigerator (usually one with a latch on the door) in the shop with a 100watt light bulb rigged inside to stay on 24-7.  That was their rod-oven.  I've burned quite a few rods from ovens like that.On 7018 xray pipe welds I like to keep the rods in an oven because of the porosity a wet 7018 can leave in the weld.  But welding on a backhoe I've never used a 7018 from a rod oven. And I've never welded on a backhoe with anything but 7018.   Good luck manLater
Reply:Originally Posted by outlawskinnydhey now.... i hear people say "i use 7018 for critical welds, but for non critical applications like welding buckets onto a back-hoe i use 6013"?!?!?!?!?!?! isnt that kinda critical? maybe not defcom 4 critical. no need to go hide under the matress critical. but still, anything moving on machinery sounds critical to me...im not questioning what rods im gonna use (6013 for all you sportsfans keeping score. according to miller's stick welding calculator they are good for 40-90amps and well, i have a small 120 dcep welder so that sounds like a good fit) but im just curious what a "non critical weld" is