Powder Coat

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First powder coat project, just a bracket I needed for mounting a small gear head motor. Did not need anything more than a coat of paint, but wanted to work out the powder coating process.Fusion welded the bracket up so the welds were flush, no need for super strength on the bracket.Gloss black overcoated with illusion. Photo does it no justice, piece really sparkles and shines with different collors depending on the angle you look at it. I will need to set up a better spray area, shop is a bit too dusty and picked up some junk in the spray, also need to find an old oven for curing, but for now old BBQ makes do.Any one else powder coating? Attached ImagesLast edited by Timberwolf; 10-07-2008 at 09:02 AM.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:That really leaves a nice finish.Do all powdercoated items have to be cured, (curing is??)I see gates, and corral panels that are powder coated, so they say.  Seems to hold up better than regular paint."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Yes, they go on with an electrostatic spray gun 25,000 to 50,000 volts or more for industrial applications then they need to bake at about 400f for 20 min. Powder looks like colored iceing sugar.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:The process sure seems to hold up to the weather much better than conventional paint.I had no idea that it had to be baked.  I guess anything large is out of reach of the average guy like me.I always feel that conventional spraying wastes about half the paint in overspray.  I've never tried HVLP, assuming it wouldn't work outside in the wind.Like the color highlights against the black basecoat.  Neat effect"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:It is an indoor application, really need a dedicated area to do it right, just like paint spraying cars, clean is not good enough. I had some sawdust floating about from planing a couple boards the day before and soon as I energised it the system picked them right out of the air.It is possible to cure bigger parts using IR heat lamps, but not as good as getting the whole part to temperature in an oven.There are some plans floating about to make curing ovens, would be nice to be able to coat parts 3 or 4 feet long anyway.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:RE:  SawdustSounds like the static on the computer monitor.  I got cigarette ashes, cookie crumbs, bread crumbs, and just about everything else stickin' to mine"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Any process that needs to be done indoors puts me out of the running.  Wish I had a shop."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Originally Posted by TimberwolfFirst powder coat project, just a bracket I needed for mounting a small gear head motor. Did not need anything more than a coat of paint, but wanted to work out the powder coating process.Fusion welded the bracket up so the welds were flush, no need for super strength on the bracket.Gloss black overcoated with illusion. Photo does it no justice, piece really sparkles and shines with different collors depending on the angle you look at it. I will need to set up a better spray area, shop is a bit too dusty and picked up some junk in the spray, also need to find an old oven for curing, but for now old BBQ makes do.Any one else powder coating?
Reply:Unlike 'old' type paints which chemically cure by oxidation and polymerization, I believe these are already  either thermo-setting or thermo-plastic materials which melt. The first kind of plastic only melts once, the second will melt again if heated again. Because of the electrostatic nature, the material will only build up to a certain thickness before it won't stick more, and since it needs to be cooked, any oversprayed powder can be reused if kept clean, I think.I'd like to see more details on the gun and the cost and availability of supplies.
Reply:Small systems with fixed voltage output can be had for as little as $100, mid range systems (more what I have) for a few hundred and pro systems are a grand and up.Powder starts at about $10/lb for basic colors to about $30/lb for specialty colors high temp powders ect.Coverage depends a on the powder and tickness. but seems you get about 50 to 100 ft2 per lb. Coverage chart here:http://www.rohmhaas.com/wcm/informat...age_chart.pageSo from a materials angle it can be cheeper than good quality paint. It's a lot easier to spray powder coat than automotive paint... no mixing solvents, reducers or activators, no runs, no fish eyes ect, no waiting for paint to set up. Just prep, spray, bake and you're done.Last edited by Timberwolf; 10-07-2008 at 11:24 AM.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:More explanation on the curing please and also on the prep . The IR lights do they really work (assuming you have to raise the surface temp to melt this), and what will this stick to (anything that conducts electricity?). Or point me in a direction where I can get more info. Thanks
Reply:Prep is just like for paint, clean, oil free, remove rust and mill scale. It is also possible to dip or wipe on iron phosphate solution to help give greater corrosion resistance.Spraying is just hanging the piece, putting ground strap on it, then shooting the powder on much like HVLP but even softer @ 10-15 psi. Then once the powder is on just bake.Pretty much anything non porus (though even wood can be done with special process) that can take 400F can be coated, non conductive materials can even be coated if a conductive base coat is applied first. Curing is just a matter of getting powder coated piece up to ~400f for 15 to 20 min. Then like was mentioned depending on the type of powder, some just melt and set as they cool, but other hi temp powders will make a chemical change over 400f so they will then resist temps as high as ~1100f.One nice thing about powder coating is no flamable liquids, no vapors except minor fumes when curing. Also lots of options for candy apple finish, crinkle, chrome, clear coats, metalic flake...http://www.powdercoatingonline.com/h...dercorner.htmlLast edited by Timberwolf; 10-07-2008 at 12:57 PM.Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:Thanks Timberwolf that was just what I was wanting to know.
Reply:I started powder coating a few months back and it is so much better than painting.The procedure is really basic, you sandblast or at least clean the metal with acetone, coat the part with the powder and bake at around 400 degrees for around 15 to 20 min. The temps and time vary a little depending on the actual powder. I currently use a in wall oven I bought off craigslist for 40 bucks but you can built any size you want. Here is a link I posted a few months ago showing my bender I powder coated and the gun I bought to do it with.Link that I posted showing my bender I powder coated.Here is a link on how to build a oven/https://My Youtube Channel
Reply:Great now I gotta Buy a powder coat  set up and build an oven  this site has cost me alot of money but its all worth itAndyA.K.A BDB (Big Daddy Boynton)
Reply:I have seen old refrigerators and freezers work well as ovens. You can do larger parts in them.I have yet to try powder coating myself.
Reply:Originally Posted by BDBGreat now I gotta Buy a powder coat  set up and build an oven  this site has cost me alot of money but its all worth it
Reply:I have done lots in the past not much any more the biggest thing in powder coating is the prep and cleaning as long as warping is not an issue I prebake to clean and absolutly all aluminium must be pre baked as aluminim is a pourus material.. I wanted to learn more a few years ago so I worked at a factory to learn about it 6 years ago. powdercoat on a production line is a good way to learn its like getting paid to take a course lol. we had a best day of 45000 pieces with 5 workers one day. you can easily make an oven with a paint storage booth and 2-3 house hold oven burners.
Reply:I don't know about self applied powder coat, but I am not a fan of the commercially applied stuff for any outside use.  Have you ever seen a snowplow a few years after it has been banged around in the salt and slush? The salt gets behind the powder coat, lifting the coating off in sheets, trapping rust and causing more damage than I have ever seen with paint. I have seen similar rust issues on items not exposed to salt, such as metal picnic tables, kids swing sets, etc. A friend of mine got tired of painting his wrought iron rail work, and found a company to powder coat his stuff. I told him my concerns, but he liked the quick, hard Finnish, and the fact that he didn't have to do the painting. He's been doing this for a couple of years now. Just recently, he's been getting call backs from his customers. Bad weather ability, cracking, "rust sheeting", long story short, he has been going back, removing the rails, having them sandblasted, (a very difficult and costly removal) and re-coating them, all this at his cost. I don't think you will find him a fan of powder coating either.Has anyone else had similar problems?Just my  opinion, not from a book, just from the road.Howes Welding Inc.www.howesweldinginc.com
Reply:powder coat is good for looks but a stone chip will ruin the whole item in short time most factory powder coated stuff is just a cosmetic finish not for durabuility. the only durable job is spray on 2 part primer and proper paint. now on that note there are uv protectants in some powder coat that has to be specifide and paid for not cheap.
Reply:You last two posters are going against everything I have ever read about powder coating.I did a test with the powder coating that I use and it takes much more time to sand blast off than does epoxy or polyurathane paint.I had a friend that had some wheels powder coated on his 1999 Trans Am and when he sold it in 2007 after having 120,000 miles on it they looked as good as they did the day he picked up his car. You would never have been able to keep paint from chipping on a set of wheels that long.The only drawback to powder coating that I no of is if you do get a chip in it you can't easily fix it and have it blend in the way you can a base coat clear coat finish.https://My Youtube Channel
Reply:30 years ago when ford was still building tractors,they did a black powder coat on the perforated metal grill panel. they resist weathering just great, i'm guessing there are differences in types of powder for various purposes.
Reply:yes the powder coat is much harder but the stuff used in a factory is cosmetic and fast. stuff in a factory is not sanded and does not get preped. a good powdercoater will doo a good job and it will last long in most cases but there r a few jobs that it just does not last in.
Reply:i'd stay away from putting heat into freezers or refridgerators---plastic liners and foam insulation dont work with high temps.. ovens have fiberglass insulation.
Reply:i'm guessing there are differences in types of powder for various purposes.Timberwolf Why are you using 2 coats? Are you trying to get a candy effect? Only time I have used 2 coats is when I applied a clear powder coat over some silver.The only other time I have heard of using multiple coats is when you are using candy powders and you need to apply them over a silver or chrome powder or polished aluminum to get the nice candy effect.If you do use multiple powders most people say to not completely cure the base powder, right when the base powder starts to flow take part out of oven and let cool to about 150 degrees then apply final powder and completely cure the part. This way both powders will fuse together but the base coat will stay beneath the top coat.If you used a high temp base coat and a regular temp top coat the powder will only be as strong as the weakest link which would be the top coat in this case.Last edited by 737mechanic; 10-14-2008 at 12:06 PM.
Reply:I was applying an illusion top coat, that is why two coats, problem was just a simple incompattibility of powers. I did apply the second coat before the first cooled, but the thing with the high temp powder is it does not just melt, it also chemicaly changes, so once it reaches the initial cure temp it won't reactivate at that same temp a second time as most conventional powders will.Applying a standard top coat over high temp does not make a lot of sense, I know, just what I had on hand and saw no info about that being a problem. well it is and I learned something, maybe save someone else some problems too...Lincoln PT185 TIGLincoln 175 MIGLincoln 240 amp AC StickLind Needle Arc plasma welderPlasma cutter, soon???
Reply:Originally Posted by 737mechanicYou last two posters are going against everything I have ever read about powder coating.I did a test with the powder coating that I use and it takes much more time to sand blast off than does epoxy or polyurathane paint.I had a friend that had some wheels powder coated on his 1999 Trans Am and when he sold it in 2007 after having 120,000 miles on it they looked as good as they did the day he picked up his car. You would never have been able to keep paint from chipping on a set of wheels that long.The only drawback to powder coating that I no of is if you do get a chip in it you can't easily fix it and have it blend in the way you can a base coat clear coat finish.