cert. practice?

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hey guys and ladies,so im sitting here at the shop (not a welding shop) after work, and decide to burn some metal like i like to do , and was wondering if there was a way to practice welding for certifications.i have been reading a little about aws welding certs but i havent read anything detailed about the actual process, such as whats expected from the welder attempting his cert, what steps are taken from putting on your hood and gloves to handing over the final piece. do's and DONT'S. etc...i was figuring that a mildsteel flat plate stick buttweld would be some fun to play around with here at the shop (and a good way to practice since i almost always mig), but i dont even know what size/type plate is used, or for that matter if there are several types (of mild steel) or if thickness should be a concern. is it a 2 pass test like i sorta remember reading?so in conclusion....HELP!!!!!   i wanna have some fun and learn  also good practice methods in general would be very helpfull and very appreciatedthanks allJim
Reply:Jim,This is what I do. I've been teaching welding for 20 years and one thing I've learned is "how" to take a test. First, the test is specifically designed to let a welder prove he understands the welding process involved and has the ability to produce a sound weld according to a given specification, code or standard.For practice....You need to pracitice the very procedure for the test in question. i.eAWS D1.1 - joint B-U2a-GF mild steel 3/8" for limited thickness test. Vertical or overhead or flat. It's the basics that usually kill a test weld. Stops and starts, bead sequences, interpass temp. and a plan!Like Mike T. said, "They all gots a plan, "til I starts hittin' 'em!Weldtek
Reply:thanks weldtek! that helps me get in the right frame of mind i dont understand what you mean by "bead sequences" though, i am assuming it means hot pass, fill pass, correct rod (6011,7018 etc.) etc. in the right order.also can anyone point me in the direction of the standards i need to know? such as interpass temp. maybe a list of all available certs (i did a quick search of aws.org but found nothing, ill search again in a few when i get home)are there any other certs i should consider beyond aws?thanks to everyonethanks weldtek!
Reply:i never went to welding school..it was all on the job training..when i got "tested" i had to do stick /mig /tig welds on a whole bunch of stuff..i had this "guy" watch everything i did for 20 hrs..besides relieve myself..then he took all my "samples" to a lab in boston and they "dye penetrant" tested everything..then the "pressure test"then the "shear" test..all sorts of blow it up tests..i passed.. thats all i know..i never paid for the certs # the company did..so when i left i left them there also...but i think i know what i'm doing by now..i would hope.. ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Other codes for testing... there's hundreds. What kinda welder ya want to be?API 1104 - Petroleum pipingASME Section IX - pressure vesselsMil STD 248AWS D1.1 - Structural Welding Code - Steel. That one is pretty standard for the construction industry. Bead sequencing was a reference to filling up the joint. Stringer bead, weave bead; maybe both. You have to have access to the bottom of the joint at all times.Hey Zap, I'm not trying to start none; I have a lot of respect for people that can just jump in and figger things out. The trouble with OJT is that for most people, it ain't enough. It's just like that little test of mine, it don't even scratch the surface.Weldtek
Reply:On my cert. for mig we used 2 pcs. of 3/8" plate around 6" long.  They were beveled 22deg. on each side making a V shape with a 1/4" backing plate and a 1/4" gap between the 3/8" plates at the bottom.  We just run them in 2 passes, if they passed the inspectors visual they were x-rayed.  After the first pass he inspected it and then after the second he checked it again and wrote my name and stuff on it.  Hope this helps.Last edited by littlefuzz; 08-31-2006 at 07:54 PM.DewayneDixieland WeldingMM350PLincoln 100Some torchesOther misc. tools
Reply:A quick Google search showed up this site.  It gives you an idea of a standard plate test.http://www.grbwelding.com/images/CWB...weld%20test%22This is a Canadian test but the AWS is similar.  There are differences about what is acceptable and what is not after the bend test but they generally are the same.  Google around for 1GF weld test or similar description.   Generally the test results is the property of the certifying authority, are transferable and cannot be "held" by the employer.  Some employers like you to think that so you don't move on to another shop that has a similar certification.
Reply:Hey Zap, I'm not trying to start none; I have a lot of respect for people that can just jump in and figger things out. The trouble with OJT is that for most people, it ain't enough. It's just like that little test of mine, it don't even scratch the surface.__________________Weldtek i have to agree 100%some can...some can't..and thats the way it is..but you can never stop trying diffrent things..for laffs anyway..welding in all reality is an art...dont matter what you have in your hand at the time..its time to see "what if?"sometimes yes sometimes no on the outcome.. in the end you only get better..and you can always get better..if you play with it  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsteri never went to welding school..it was all on the job training.. he took all my "samples" to a lab in boston and they "dye penetrant" tested everything..but i think i know what i'm doing by now.....zap!
Reply:did you have to grind all your test pieces before they were tested? (quote)no..no grinding of welds permitted..sorta like N.H.R.A.  ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:i just read that on lotechmans link, it seems i misunderstood/misread somthing to that effect before, maybe it had to do with beveling. are you required to bevel your test piece or is it prepared for you?somday ill understand this stuff........darn basics!! hahahathanks
Reply:In most cases if you are doing a company test they are not going to have you fiddling around preparing your pieces.  They are all prepared before you test so that the plate is a known material and has a paper trail back to the rolling mill.  The site I supplied is for just simple plate tests with backing bar.  This is a common test for any welder doing structural steel.  This is not for pressure piping.  I know the Province of Alberta is very picky about what you can have in the welding booth.  Often you are limited to a wire brush.  If you have a slag inclusion or cold lap in one of your intermediate passes then you are stuck because you cannot grind it out and continue.  Tests are often used to separate candidates when there are just too many applicants.  I talked to one welder who was presented with the test piece clamped overhead by the testers.  The piece was not level but tilted diagonally from corner to corner so that the weld seam was not directly flat overhead.  If the welder didn't see what had been done he would get his beads incorrect and fail.  Many of the candidates failed because they didn't look carefully at the test piece and how it was positioned.
Reply:Interesting reading, the only test I know anything about is pressure pipe and pressure vessel.  The biggest gripe I have in our industry is some desk jocky having welders test on something that is not allowed anymore such as fabericating a tee, I have seen exellant welders fail this test.   As far as OJT, I have seen more welders that started out as helpers for a few years and learned the tricks and moved up to a welder. I personally would rather have welders that came from OJT.  I have seen a lot of welders that come from schools and do a good job on tests but have a hard time on the job. I think this comes from welding in the schools and testing they are postioning the test material where it is easiest to weld. Then when on the job they run into bad fits or bad position they have a problem and if they are not carefull they have 3 repairs and they are busted. I think the schools need to prepare you for bad fits and bad positions because when you get busted it will follow you for a while.
Reply:Hey Finney, that's a great argument. Maybe a good training program will cover theory and "real world" applications. In todays society with the info superhiway and lightnin fast communication; the extended classroom or experiential learning approaches are the answer. No doubt, you need both.Weldtek
Reply:one inch thick, over head, up, and horiz. = unlimitedwith backing strips. (nuclear) 9 hr limit.      all three coupons tacked-up, and in your most comfortable arangement,  together, when one gets too hot go to the next,(hint: flat and over head are the same).  learn to carry a lot of metal. (real work application)
Reply:No matter what cert you'll be doing remember the three "C's".  Clean, clean, clean.  Clean everything as best you can.  Clean your start/stop too, not just between passes.  If you're stick welding, feel free to get to the point of using a scribe to get that tiny bit of flux and slag off.  If you're TIG welding, keep your wire brushes marked by alloy type so you don't accidentally cross-contaminate.  The more severe the cert the more important this becomes.  MIL-STD-1595 (now AMS-STD-1595 and AWS D17.1) is one of those where using a wire brush that has been used on aluminum or carbon steel can cause a failure (on stainless, cobalt, inconel, etc).Clean.  Clean.  Clean.Kalroy
Reply:As to the OJT question.  That's a tough one for me.  The tradition in which I learned my trade required an airman to take formal schooling for eight hours a day, five days a week, for three months before even starting their apprenticeship OJT.  On the other hand, the USAF welders were required to be able to oxy-acetylene weld and cut, TIG, MIG, SMAW, forge, heat treat, electroplate, braze, solder, and be able to maintain every bit of equipment they would need from regulators, to welding machines, to heat treat furnaces et al.   Cost cutting over the last 15 or so years ended this level of training and welding is primarily OJT and it shows.  The lack of formal training and the lack of trainers who are experienced at teaching and training apprentices has resulted in a level of quality that is adequate to above average.  That seems like a good level, but it was once much higher, and aerospace (especially R&D) really demands a much higher level than that.  It's why we don't let our GIs weld on the really critical stuff, and why those wanting the highest quality request their projects be worked on by the former USAF welders, now civillians, and not the welders who learned their craft OJT.I think the biggest delineating factor isn't so much OJT versus formal training (since they're actually complimentary and not adversarial) but is the welder's own thrist for knowledge.  Does the welder read and study everything about welding, welding technology and metallurgy that they can get their hands on?  Do they take constructive criticism, suggestions, and different techniques as an opportunity to better their craft or do they take the attitude that what they've been doing works fine and they're not going to bother to change it.  I think that is one of the four most important things to mastering your craft.KalroyOh, the four are:1.  Constant desire and effort at improvement.2.  Attention to detail and holding oneself to a higher standard than the "average" welder or rod burner.3.  The desire for the warm fuzzy feeling that comes when doing a job better than it has to be done.4.  Thirst for knowledge in one's field.