Weldors that can't weld out of position

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I've had 3 guys come in in the last 2 weeks fresh out of school. Said they could do it all, passed all the bend tests on plate and pipe. All 3 can weld perfect in flat and horizontal. Problem is, these guys can't run a bead to save their lives in either vert(up or down) or overhead. Would you guys go through the hassle of hiring them, then teaching them how to weld out of position?Go Cards!!!!!
Reply:Yes, because they are obviously trainable...Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:I worked with many excellent x-ray pipe weldors in the plants in Houston that couldn't use a torch or a tape measure. They couldn't use a square or do simple math calculations. Most of them couldn't tie their own bucket to a rope to pull up on the scaffolding. But, they could weld pipe! They were all taught how to pipe weld in High School, but nothing else. It will all come with time. Experience teaches weldors more than any school is capable of simply because there is much more to welding than passing the tests.Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.                                         -Cree Indian ProverbSA 200 LincolnVictor Torches
Reply:Cliff great employees are not found they are made.72 Chevy Cummins Project94 3500HD Welding Rig build Sold NOV 2011
Reply:Good advice gizzardgutz and mrbeast. It's been a long day, had a few beers tonite with dinner to celebrate turning another number higher( gotta figure out how to get the number smaller next year) and thought I'd ask on here. 2 of the 3 have good work ethic from what I have seen, but I don't know that I would be the best teacher.Go Cards!!!!!
Reply:we all have been in this age old boat @ one time or another ourselves and someone saw the spark that was itching to be a fire in our eyes....give them a chance and pay them accordingly!
Reply:If they have the desire to learn that is the most important. The nice thing about trainging them is you can teach them your way and they dont have as many bad habits. Give them a little test set up a overhead weld on the floor and see who gets right in there and who shys away. If you are affraid to get dirty or burnt out of position is not for them.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Originally Posted by gizzardgutzI worked with many excellent x-ray pipe weldors in the plants in Houston that couldn't use a torch or a tape measure. They couldn't use a square or do simple math calculations. Most of them couldn't tie their own bucket to a rope to pull up on the scaffolding. But, they could weld pipe! They were all taught how to pipe weld in High School, but nothing else. It will all come with time. Experience teaches weldors more than any school is capable of simply because there is much more to welding than passing the tests.
Reply:Back when I was just starting out in this trade over 30 years ago A welder was someone who could use a torch & fit in addition to welding. It's a lot different nowadays. These days I mostly just fabricate & tack up what I fit & we have welders that do nothing but weld out what's been fabricated. I'd hate to have to do nothing but weld all day now, especially in this Texas summer heat.
Reply:I agree with the other guys.  If they can lay a nice bead horiz and have a good work ethic then they're trainable.  I've had guys come out of school that did okay out of position but were lazy assess.  I'd rather have the guy who wants to work and has shown the ability to learn.And it usually doesn't take them that long to get up to speed, you just have to check behind them for awhile.  I hired one fellow a few years ago who could pass any test but his welds looked like crap.  started him out only welding joints no one would ever see! but, with a bit of patience and help from myself and a couple of guys in the shop he got much better quickly.  He's now one of the best welders in the county.  And he has always been a "hustler".  Guy works his *** off from clock in to clock out AND he's the first guy at work.... I'm there 30 minutes before the shop opens and he's always sitting in the parking lot waiting on me.A few months after he'd started work he told one of the other guys that he'd been turned away by a dozen or more places before he came to me..
Reply:Originally Posted by Cliff Lodespassed all the bend tests on plate and pipe. Problem is, these guys can't run a bead to save their lives in either vert(up or down)
Reply:I see the head-aches. But I passed my tests/certs. I'm a better welder today than I ever was in school. Welding out of position and solo to boot, I have learned the importance of getting comfortable and maintaining arc gap and rod angle, they didn't teach me that at school. Baptism by fire I guess, but I feel you should give one of them a chance to prove he/she can figure it out. It only took a few boiler jobs to really pick it up.Lincoln Power MIG 210 MP ( boat anchor )Lincoln Weld-Pac 100 HDHobart IronMan 230Cutmaster 42Jackson NexGenSumner Ultra ClampsDWM120
Reply:Originally Posted by slowhandI have a small problem in how your worded your first post..... How in the world did they weld on PIPE without welding either vertical up or vertical down????    Was your pipe test only Horizontal?  And, yea they passed the bend test.... how did they do in the VISUAL department?    An ugly weld might bend, but it still looks like crap.   Sorry man but I couldn't resist.  This is just too funny to pass up!!!!! Good luck manLater guys
Reply:A guy can learn to weld out of position. It's harder to teach him a good work ethic, honest living, the ability to work well with others, and pride of craftsmanship. If I could absorb the learning curve, I'd take a guy with these skills who had some talent over a crusty old bastard who could weld like mad but was difficult to work with or teach.
Reply:Hiring good people is always #1.  It is a rare individual that is a truly good person/worker that cannot be taught right.  It is a rare lame person that CAN be taught correctly.  This goes for all jobs, from sweeping floors to running the place.-DaveXMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled
Reply:Great to see some of y'all still believe in taking a chance on a new guy. Being a younger welder I often get overlooked because they think that I don't have the experience they want. I was a fitter for a while in Wyoming and we were building dry fork station piping. We had two kids fresh out of Tulsa welding school. When they started they were pretty rough. I knew more about field welding then they did at the time but they had desire. By the time they left that project they had turned into pretty damn good hands. So you never know what you might be passing up by not taking a chance on a younger guy. Just my thoughts.
Reply:Originally Posted by insternoA guy can learn to weld out of position. It's harder to teach him a good work ethic, honest living, the ability to work well with others, and pride of craftsmanship. If I could absorb the learning curve, I'd take a guy with these skills who had some talent over a crusty old bastard who could weld like mad but was difficult to work with or teach.
Reply:Sr20 Steve- it may not be brain surgery, but I can be a case of life or death. But I do have my first guy starting tommorow. He gets to work side by side with me all day. That's how we normally thin them out.Go Cards!!!!!
Reply:It may not be brain surgury. But do you want your brain surgon to only be good at foot surgury and soso on brain surgury or do you want the guy that can make the hard jobs look easy and the easy job simple.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:I've met all kinds of guys who call themselves welders, from guys who can do it all to guys who make their living pulling a trigger on MIG gun all day with everything welded on the flat.  Asked one of the best welders I know the other day a question about TIG.  He replied that he had never had the opportunity to TIG weld but was interested in it.  I referred him to this forum.At a new computerized sawmill project, the pipefitters brought in a welder who was a TIG specialist to weld some SS tubing for the hydraulic lines.  He did some of the nicest TIG welds I ever saw.  After the hydraulic lines were done, they asked him to weld some unistrut support brackets using stick,  If I had ever done a job like that I would have been embarassed, they were UGLY.So everyone has strengths and weaknesses, depends on their experience.  I would be more interested in their work ethic, pride in their work and willingness to learn.  Anything else you can train them for.Most of the guys I've seen who say they can do anything and have done everything usually can't back it up.  The rare guy who can is the exception."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25