Trailer reinforcement

admin

I have a 16 ft. trailer I am trying to reinforce.  My notion is to take up the wood floor and weld a 3/8 in. thick by 6 in wide piece of flat iron vertically the full 16 foot length, tacking it about every foot to the angle iron frame and also to the uprights that support the top rail.  Then, weld the same material upright several places fronto back, in between the top rail supports - tying the frame to the flat iron.  Additionally, I'll use 3/8 in by 4 in wide flat iron across the front to tie the two full length side pieces together for cross-wise (I don't know the correct term) support.  'll then replace the wood floor.  There is space to put the 3/8 steel in beside the boards into the angle formed by the bottom of the frame.  Does this seem like it would reinforce the trailer?  My concern is that even though the trailer has "3500 pound axles" the instructions say not to haul more than 1,000 pounds.  I need to haul my tractor about 50 miles each way.  The tractor weighs about 2,600 pounds.  I am not a welder - my son is going to do the welding - neither one of us know how to reinforce the trailer.  Thanks in advance for your help.
Reply:Originally Posted by dismith550"3500 pound axles" the instructions say not to haul more than 1,000 pounds.
Reply:You seem to be in very deep water with this project.  You wrote..."neither one of us know how to reinforce the trailer. ....I offer three choices: Good, Fast, & Cheap. You may pick two.Hobart AC/DC StikMate LXHarbor Freight AD HoodHarbor Freight Industrial Chop SawDeVilbis 20 Gallon, 5 HP Compressor
Reply:If you look at the numbers you just put up 2600 lb. trailor on 3500 lb. axle and it tells you not to haul more than 1000 lbs. . All the reinforcment you do to the trailor, wont change the axle's load cap.. If you think about it , it only adds to the wieght of the trailor . Thus reducing your load cap..Yor need is to swap out the axles that can carry the wieght. If you over load this trailor and something happens, well, it ain't gona be perty. I've seen it to many times. Sorry , my friend but that's how I see it. Just my $0.02 DDWell like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Doubled,go back and read it again.My name's not Jim....
Reply:What did I miss BoostinjdmWell like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:Unless the OP can put up pictures of the original trailer, a clear plan of what he intends to do and convinces me that his son is a competent welder I wouldn't touch this one with a 10' pole."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Originally Posted by doubledWhat did I miss Boostinjdm
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprodshe said "axles" as in 2 or more. if i'm reading this right i want to know what kind of trailer has (i'm assuming from the term axles) two 3500lb axles and says to load no more than 1000lbs on it.
Reply:Well my friend , I went with the other assumtion , that a 2600 lb. trailor with a 3500 lb. axel would leave a 1000 lb. load cap. and a trailor wieghing 2600 lbs. with two 3500lb. axle(s) would leave a load cap. of 4400 lbs. And YES , I did misread the wieght (tractor / trailor) sorry about that .Last edited by doubled; 07-11-2011 at 10:43 PM.Well like they say in the Nut House --- I'M OFF
Reply:A 16' long trailer would make me think it has two axles. 3500lb axles would make this a 7K trailer if that is so, and it sounds close to the 14' one I use. The comment about 1000lbs doesn't make any sense in light of the other information. More info and picts would definately help here. Something is getting misquoted or left out it seems.Your plan on how and where to add steel seems flawed. Putting steel where you suggest would add quite a bit of weight, but probably very little strength. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in the end the additional gains you got from the added steel, was eaten up by the added weight. There's really no "simple" way to add more capasity to one of these types of trailers without completely redesigning it. At that point you might as well sell this one and buy a heavier trailer..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by doubledWell my friend , I went with the other assumtion , that a 2600 lb. trailor with a 3500 lb. axel would leave a 1000 lb. load cap. and a trailor wieghing 2600 lbs. with two 3500lb. axle(s) would leave a load cap. of 4400 lbs. And YES , I did misread the wieght (tractor / trailor) sorry about that .
Reply:Originally Posted by jbmprods i still want to see a 16' trailer that someone built with a single 3500lb axle that has a tare wt. of "2600lbs". that thing would have to already have a pretty darn stout frame and cross member structure to weigh 2600lb.
Reply:if i put a hammer in my trailer its over loaded....sorry thought id try to lighten the mood I forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot really, the wood floor will eat up a good part of that "2600 lbs" assuming thats the tare weight. I'd have to go out and pull the registration on my 14' trailer, but 2600 lb empty sounds pretty close for my double axle 7K trailer with a wood floor. The frame on it is all 1 1/2" angle iron for the most part except for the tongue.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI'd bet that your run of the mill 16' angle iron "car hauler" or utility trailer will weigh in between 1200 and 1500 lbs.  They've got to be under 2000 to get away with no brakes, or brakes on one axle.  Above 2000 and brakes are required on all axles.
Reply:Originally Posted by Cliff LodesI always thought it was capacity determined trailer brakes. I guess I was wrong. Kind of off topic- why would you own a tandem axle trailer with no brakes? Every trailer I own has brakes on it
Reply:I just rebuilt my 16' trailer, used a pair of 6000lb axles, it is an old 1995 Hudson built with 8" channel, wood deck - a real beast.  Before I swapped the axles it weighed just under 2000lbs.In Va you are required to have brakes on a tandem trailer.Are you sure that you didn't read that number wrong, a 7 instead of a 1 (as in 7000lbs) would make a lot more sense.One possibility is that this is a boat trailer or a converted boat trailer - they are often very long compared to their load rating.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWA 16' long trailer would make me think it has two axles. 3500lb axles would make this a 7K trailer if that is so, and it sounds close to the 14' one I use. The comment about 1000lbs doesn't make any sense in light of the other information. More info and picts would definately help here. Something is getting misquoted or left out it seems.Your plan on how and where to add steel seems flawed. Putting steel where you suggest would add quite a bit of weight, but probably very little strength. It wouldn't surprise me at all if in the end the additional gains you got from the added steel, was eaten up by the added weight. There's really no "simple" way to add more capasity to one of these types of trailers without completely redesigning it. At that point you might as well sell this one and buy a heavier trailer.
Reply:Dismith550, can you tell us if this is a factory made trailer of if someone has made or altered it. Also on the trailer should be a plate or sticker that gives the GVWR or total that the trailer can weigh when loaded to capacity. If it is 1 or 2 3500lb axles. I don't think that any dual 3500lb axle trailer would have any problem with a 2600 lb load , as long as it is normally constructed. Axles may have tags on them as well to ID them and may even have a weight rating on them. Does the trailer have normal rims like a vehicle or centerless rims like a mobile home axle.  Pictures would tell us alot.  Beefing up a trailer may sound like a good idea, but remember the GVWR number. For every pound of reinforcement you add, you loose from your cargo capacity.  Pictures will help everyone help you,"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotFor every pound of reinforcement you add, you loose from your cargo capacity.
Reply:anyone else curious why if he was concerned enough to post his problem yet he hasn't responded with any more info.225NT bobcatAEAD200LEScott 125mm175, mm252 w 30A, PT225mm211, TA 181iHyper Therm 380, cut master 529100X & XX, Digital Elite6 Victor setssmith little torch, meco midget kalamazoo band sawsteel max saw evoulution circular saw
Reply:Thanks to you all who jumped on this so quickly.  I appreciate your comments and questions.  I could not find a tag on the trailer and the trailer has not been modified yet.  The rims look like car rims and the tires were new when the trailer was bought about 3 years ago.  It has electric brakes and I paid about $1,400 for it.  I cannot find the &#*^%@ paper that refers to the 1,000# but I think it could be simply cya as one respondant suggested.  I hauled a much lighter tractor on the trailer (a Ford 2N) a few miles and had no problem.  I need to haul the 2,600 lb. tractor about 60 miles and want to be safe.  I called the place I bought the trailer from and was advised that I have two 3,500 pound axles = 7,000 lbs.  - more than adequate for my 2,600 lb. tractor.   The tongue is 4" channel welded to the underside of the 3" angle frame - quite substantial to me for hauling the tractor.  My concern is that the last half of the trailer frame is made of 3 in. angle iron frame, with 3 in flat iron welded across the frame at about 2' intervals.  My tractor will straddle the axles (slightly forward of them for tongue weight). I am a cautious guy who tends to "overkill" such as using a 16 penny nail when others use 8 penny nails.  Again, my concern is that the last half of the trailer is made of the 3" angle iron and my notion was to make this stronger by welding flat iron the full length of the trailer to give it additional strength.  The added weight is neglible since I'm not approaching the 7,000 axle limit.  I am asking if the full length flat iron will add to the structural strength of the trailer - assuming it is tacked each foot or so to the 3" angle iron that makes up the frame.  Again, I know you all are busy and I appreciate your time and advice - I appreciate and respect your expertise as well.  Thank you in advance for your additional input.
Reply:1000lb Tongue weight perhaps?Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:I did a thread a while back on another site about basic structures. Rather than repost it all, here's the link.http://weldfabzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2104.0I'm not sure if John has the site set up so guests can view the threads and picts or if you have to sign up to do so. Anyway pay attention to how a truss works in the thread. Thats basically how your trailer is supported. Pay particular attention to post 8 where I show a concrete beam. Your plates really won't add that much. Understand that this isn't to show you HOW to strengthen your trailer, just so you understand the concept of why your plates won't really add that much to the existing design. Any questions just ask..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagandismith550I have a similarly construted trailer with two 3500# axles. I have hauled a 5000# tractor and a six foot disc. Trailer was pretty much maxed out and held up fine, no added re-enforcement.Ranger 250 GXTSmith Gas Axe
Reply:Let's talk about that 3 inch angle iron, I will assume it is at least 1/4" or maybe 3/8" now that being said, let's look at the spans of that 3" angle over the trailer. The angle is supported between the eyes of the leaf springs of the first Axle, Im gonna guess and say somewhere in the area of maybe 30"  Then they hook to the equalizer in the middle, and then another span of maybe 30" for the eyes of the leaf springs of the second axle. That leaves a span behind the axles usually somewhere between 3-5 feet. Not much for a 3" angle. should be plenty strong. again you probably have a longer span ahead of the axle supports but the tounge usually doubles under the frame increasing the strength in that area.   When you say you have flat bar spanning from angle side to angle side, I hope you mean to say that it is welded and sits on edge with the 2 " dimension being vertical. I could not imagine anyone building a trailer with the " crossmembers" being flat with the 2" dimension being Horizontal. If anything I would be concerned that the cross members are the weak point on the trailer. I have seen many trailers actually bellied and bowed in the cross members from side to side from carrying too heavy a load and also from ratchet and chain binding the **** out of things actually bowing the trailer against the secured cargo.  Trailers that are a step above yours usually have a 4 or 5 inch angle iron side rail with 3" crossmembers,usually channel iron, and usually come in with a GVWR at or just under 10,000 Lbs. In any event I stick by my original statement that pretty much any professionally manufactured trailer with (2) 3500 lb axles and brakes should easily and safely carry a 2600Lb distributed load. What is your decking on the trailer and who is the Mfgr. again , pictures would help."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:A small problem with the angle iron trailers is getting the heavier wheeled loads on there without bending the tail. You need to load up and unload easy, hit it straight, supports under the ramp or jacks under the trailer, things like that."The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:Thanks very much for the lesson in structures.  It took a couple of days for me to be approved by the weldfabzone site so I could view your excellent explanation.  I very much appreciate your time and the explanation and I'll haul my tractor with greater confidence.Thanks again, Dwight
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI did a thread a while back on another site about basic structures. Rather than repost it all, here's the link.http://weldfabzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=2104.0I'm not sure if John has the site set up so guests can view the threads and picts or if you have to sign up to do so. Anyway pay attention to how a truss works in the thread. Thats basically how your trailer is supported. Pay particular attention to post 8 where I show a concrete beam. Your plates really won't add that much. Understand that this isn't to show you HOW to strengthen your trailer, just so you understand the concept of why your plates won't really add that much to the existing design. Any questions just ask.
Reply:It's not really anything special. The site was started by an old member here who got fed up with the BS that pops up here from time to time. John's the one who originally started the "230v extension cord thread" here. There's been bad blood between some members there and some here, and like many sites things overflowed from here to there. The mods there try real hard to keep things from getting as out of hand as they do here some times.They do try VERY hard to keep the spam down to a tollerable level. Thats probably why John's got the restrictions set the way he does right now. There's no where near as much as shows up here because of that. I've been there for years so I have no idea what John's got set up for new memebers/ guests.You'll probably recognise many of the guys who have signed up there from here. Zap, Tozzi, Swells, Wello, me and quite a few others. It's a much smaller site, so when guys are busy with work things don't get posted as much as they do here. Many times guys post their projects on both sites, but there are several very good members that are just over there. Lot of times the guys just want to be able to get away from the BS here and post there till things quite down and then come back... In the end it's the same as here, or on Miller's or Hobarts sites, guys just want to exchange information and share their work.I think it's worth it. There are several really good memebres there who don't post here and have a real wealth of information they are willing to share. Brent in particular. There's a lot less of the 4x4 site BS there that shows up here from time to time. You know the type, the guys with an attitude who think you can weld anything with the cheapest POS you can find and if you pile enough bird poop on it it will hold... Mostly a good mix of guys that get along well.Last edited by DSW; 07-15-2011 at 06:22 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan