Ive been practicing on some aluminum stuff.

admin

And Ill think everything is good, Ill sit down and cut some stuff out, do a warm up weld, looks good, then get my stuff clamped and cleaned and ready to go then bleaugh, nasty booger weld.  Ill put a pic in of whats happening.Ive sanded, brushed, cleaned with mek and alcohol.  One thing I notice, and Im not sure if this is normal, the tungsten will turn a blueish color.  Is this normal?  It seems when it starts changing colors is when things start getting chaotic.  I havent touched it to anything.  Anyway, let me know what you think. Attached ImagesVarious GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Had to open another thread for the real nasty weld.. Attached ImagesVarious GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:No sanding should be done...at least that´s what i´ve heard!Acetone & clean stainless brush...that´s all you´ll needMy Babies: HF Drill pressHF Pipe Bender3   4.5" Black and Decker angle grindersLincoln Electric PROMIG 175that´s it!
Reply:That last weld sure looks like poor or no gas coverage...and the tungsten turning blue is a sure sign of either not enough post flow or not enough shielding gas to begin with.What diameter and grade of tungsten are you using?What settings are you using?What size gas cup are you using?- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:How many A.C. amps are you using? Looks like not enough, but you almost have it... Are you using 100% Argon, or a mix? Probably also not enough shielding gas.
Reply:Im using a 1/8 pure tungsten at 200 amps with about 35 cfh on the argon.  Hmmm...  Maybe Ive gotta kinked hose..  That stuff is about 3/8 5/16 inch thick strap and 1" square solid.  Ill check back tommorow and start farting around with it again.  Ive read brush, dont brush, emory cloth/ no emory cloth, etc etc.  I guess once you find your foolproof method you stick with it.It might be something as simple as me pinching off the gas by leaning on the torch a certain way.  Ill pay a little more attention to what Im doing tommorow.  I thought the blue thing was strange.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Well, first off, 35cfh is way too much.Lower that setting down to about 15-20cfh.Try that first.Let's change one thing at a time. That way when you find what was/is causing the problem, you know how what to fix and how not to do it again....and post a pic of your tungsten when you get a chance. what is your post flow set at?- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:This looks like primarily an amperage problem...with a few complicating factors tossed in.  When you are working on small pieces, the heat stays where you are welding becasue it has no place to go.  When you work on bigger stuff, the heat in aluminum spreads REALLY fast and doesn't stay put.  It suck up the amps.  If you turn the amps up, I bet the rest will work itself out.  To me, it looks like you haven't started the puddle before you start trying to add the filler.  Get a puddle first and then go.  If you don't have any more amps, try preheating with your torch.  You will waste less argon like that than running at above 25cfh.  Let the argon run after you finish the weld to protect the tungsten as it cools.  A few seconds is fine...Like ZTFab suggests, change one variable at a time to get to the issues more quickly...a good place to start is turning up the amps and forming a puddle before adding the first dab of filler.Last edited by smithboy; 12-29-2006 at 08:24 AM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Smithboy and alanaker bring up a good point about the amperage.200 amps should get the job done with some preheat or some patience to allow the puddle to start but turning up the juice to start may not be a bad suggestion.....although the blue tungsten still leads me to believe there is a gas/post flow issue that may be contaminating the tungsten after tacking the pieces together...and you said everything is fine when you tack the parts but when you go to lay a bead.... I still would like to know what your post flow is set to and what size gas cup you are using. I'm also wondering if your welder has an AC balance control and where it's set at, too...and IMO, I would ditch the pure tungsten for some 2% but let's stick with one thing at a time.Crank up the amps and give it a go. See if that helps. - Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Agree with above.If tungsten is blue, it is being exposed to air while it is hot and it is oxidizing.This could simply be a factor of not enough "post flow" time, you need a few seconds of inert gas flow after extingushing the arc, to protect the tungsten and weld while they cool.If thats not the problem, check all the gas connections for leaks.  Plug off the torch, pressurize the entire system, leak check with windex or similar solution.
Reply:Ok, got back from work and started looking again, the first pic is of a piece I worked with yesterday and sorta threw in the towel for the evening.  When I got home I reset the gas to 25 cfh, turned down the amps to about 175 (just to see if perhaps Im blowing the tungsten off) then cleaned with a 'new' brush and acetone.  It took forever to get a puddle going (didnt preheat).Anyhow, the tungsten turned blue again, flow seems adequate, garage door closed.  The cup is a #8 on a tig 20.  %en is set at 65% right now, and postflow is 5 sec.  Freq 80hz.The first pic I worked right to left the last bit was from today.  The second shows the bit of tungsten I knocked off today and what the fresh tungsten looks like after about 1.5 inch of weld. Attached ImagesVarious GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Sorry i'm late...the tungestion is WAY too far out..for aluminum mine might be out 1/8" no more..shorten it up by at least half of whats in the pic..as far as the welds go..its getting better.. some decent beads here and there.. get the puddle real shiney before adding......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Oh, I just popped it out so we could see it in the pic.  I usually let it peek out about the diameter of the Tungsten.Oh, and thanks fella's, I was getting pretty frustrated there.  Is MEK ok to clean aluminum with?  It seems the acetone does work better...Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:i've never used mek..so i dont know..acetone only.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Acetone has always worked pretty good for me.  If you have good gas coverage and you still are having a tough time getting the puddle started, you either still have oxides on the surface or too few amps.  My typical proceedure is 1) brush in one direction with a stainless brush or stainless wheel in a grinder, 2) wipe with acetone 3) on thick stuff, and yours definately is thick for aluminum, preheat with the torch or with a oxy/ace torch to get everything nice and hot...4) on thick AL stuff, put welder at full amps, and adjust with travel speed or pedal.  If your tungsten and cup is getting cherry red, you may need an even longer post flow, maybe 7-10 seconds.  I don't think you aren't overheating the tungsten, because there is barely a ball forming with the welds you are attempting...but, you still could be getting some contamination through too short of a post flow or a small leak.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Zap is right about the tungsten being out too far. That is why you had no gas coverage in the first 'Bad' photo.Also, that looks to be 3/8 or better 6061?With that alloy, it will take plenty of heat to get going. When the 2 pieces are together you are welding more than a 1/2 inch of material.If I were new at this I would use .125, .160 and some finnese. If you are not using a cooler, your torch will get very hot just welding those practice welds on that thick stuff.Bill
Reply:Yea, I know its thick, the local recycle place had this stuff cheap, and I thought It would be good practice (was trying to make a little ladder out of it)  Believe it or not the little 1"x1" frame welded well.  Its about 3/8 6061 correct, and again, I pushed the tungsten out of the torch some for the photo.  Ive got no leaks, and the pressures good (can feel it blowing on my face).  Im beginning to think Im gonna have to find a supplier that has some thinner material.  While welding that stuff in a t, its getting really hot, gloves smokin.  Im having to stop every couple of inches to let my glove cool off.  I like that postflow idea, Ill give that a shot. Heres a couple of tries at 195amps 90hz still 5sec postflow everything else the same.I think Im trying to run before I walk here.  Next week Ill call that supplier and see if theve got any thinner stuff in.  I originally walked in there looking for some 5356 in 3/16 sheets for practicing on, and walked out with this stuff. Gonna break for a bit, let things cool off, break off another piece of tungsten and give it another go in a bit. Attached ImagesVarious GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Next time see if they have any 6061 T-651 to play with.. try to get 1/8" 3/16" if possible......zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:OoopsLast edited by Doolittle; 12-29-2006 at 05:58 PM.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:My take on this is everyone seems to want to start off welding t joints, lap joints and butt welds. It  seems not to matter what process they are trying to learn. My  suggestion would be to start with beads on plate. Get yourself a 6x6 piece of plate and start welding straight lines across it. right to left for right handers,left to right for left handers(only applies to tig). I know this is boring but you can learn a lot from beads on plate. When you fill up one side flip it over and do the other side overlaping the beads by half on each stringer. Try it you just might like it and learn something about puddle control and bead width control. good luck and keep on practicing     Kevin
Reply:Originally Posted by mopar74My take on this is everyone seems to want to start off welding t joints, lap joints and butt welds. It  seems not to matter what process they are trying to learn. My  suggestion would be to start with beads on plate. Get yourself a 6x6 piece of plate and start welding straight lines across it. right to left for right handers,left to right for left handers(only applies to tig). I know this is boring but you can learn a lot from beads on plate. When you fill up one side flip it over and do the other side overlaping the beads by half on each stringer. Try it you just might like it and learn something about puddle control and bead width control. good luck and keep on practicing     Kevin
Reply:I tell ya what sucks for us weekend warriors, running outa gas.. Gas suppliers seem to have bank hours eh?__________________
Reply:Roger that.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:It just dawned on me that you are using an inverter with pure tungsten.  I have heard and read that pure is not recommended for use with an inverter...there are a variety of explainations why floating around, but I am not sure which is true...but, they aren't recommended.  This might be a factor...or, it might not.  Just a thought.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Greetings all.    I am new here and I would like to ask what polarity you are using?  I have about 10 minutes experience on TIG when I was in high school and I loved the nice clean bead it made along with not burning holes in the 22 ga sheetmetal we used.  I would like to make some (whatta ya call those metal pieces over the motorcycle wheels--I can't find the word right now) for my atc to make it look nice.  Anyways, I only have a campbell/hausefeld ac stick welder and it doesn't seem too good for sheetmetal and I would hate to try it on aluminum so I am looking for something else (TIG/MIG or a more expensive and nicer stick welder) that has dc.  To make a long story short, I have heard that if you have the torch straight +polarity then most of the heat will end up on the torch as opposed to it being reverse - polarity and your tip won't melt as bad either.Yep, reverse polarity (torch negative, work positive) for everything.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Um, you mean Straight polarity Doolittle.Straight polarity is electrode neg. and Reverse polarity is electrode positive.I hope you haven't been trying to weld that aluminum with reverse polarity.http://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Now we are on to something.  DC??? Reverse polarity???  I guess I was thinking all this was being done in AC.  The early posts and responses suggested AC.  Is argon going to work well if he is doing this in DC?  I have never done argon and DC before...in fact, I have only recently tried DC and helium.  If he is running the wrong polarity, this would explain the overheated/blued electrode...It would also explain the difficulty in forming a puddle...Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:No no no, Im doing it the right way... This is what ive come up with guys.  Acetone instead of mekstraight wire brush, no power brushing.Need to use tuffer tungsten when running the higher amps.  Thoriated or better...The weldcraft pure I was using was coming apart.Here's a weld on a piece of 1/4 6061 thats been rolling around the shop.Amps 175, 65%en no pulse, 80hz, 1/8th thoriated...The other pic is one I was practicing stick on.  7018 rod on 1/4 plate.  Need to end the weld better, any tips? (the manual I have says nothing about electode size, amps etc... some was at 130amps, some at 150..I start out to slow then start moving too fast.. Anyhow, gonna pick up some lanathiated (did I spell that right?) next week and give it a go. Attached ImagesVarious GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Ok, heres something from today..  It looks better, I had the the thing cranked up again (195a) 65 hz, 60%en and used 1/8 lanathiated tungsten, 20cfh on the argon.  It got squirly at the end  (where it thined out) but I think Im on to something.Do you guys regularly weld thick stuff like this?  How would you setup your machines?  The lanathiated stayed clean but didnt ball well, the thoriated I used yesterday is in the pic. Attached ImagesLast edited by Doolittle; 01-02-2007 at 06:00 PM.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:tell me that you dont have the tungestion just "sticking out the back".. it looks better...only stick the tungestion out about 1/8" and sharpen it first..and find some 2% red end tungestion.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Argh.  Allrighty, Ill stick with the thoriated.  I just bought 1 piece of the lananthiated.  Tell you what though, it didnt ball well, bet I bet it would work great on steel.  The thoriated didnt ball at all. Crazy man Crazy..Forgot to ask, but how do you feed your wire with one hand?  You wear a thin tig glove?  Im wearing medium thick type glove (Not the gauntlets).Last edited by Doolittle; 01-02-2007 at 06:18 PM.Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Zapster, but with lanthanated it isn't supposed to ball, is it? Mine certainly didn't while doing aluminum, and I had real good luck with the 2% lanth. that I was using.- John
Reply:BTW I think your welds are looking ok.... I had decent luck with:70% balance 200 hz2% 3/32 lanthanatedI also used 1.5hz pulse, helped me a lot but then I was doing some thinner stuff.- John
Reply:i use the red end stuff...2%thiorated...i've never even tried anything else...as far as feeding wire with the other hand?its a little better than using my feet... torch 1 hand..filler other hand..hold the wire like you would hold a pencil.and "dip" as you go..leave about 4"out..foot on pedal..other foot on turntable... ...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Right!  Thats my problem, my big toe kept getting in the way... SHeesh.Us guitar players never got no rythm ya know?  Drummers...Think they can dance and play the harmonica at the same time!  Seriously though, you can do the pencil motion with gloves on?Various GrindersVictor Journeyman torch200cf Acet. 250cf oxygenLincoln 175 plus/alpha2 gunLincoln v205t tigLincoln 350mpEsab 650 plasmaWhen you can get up in the morning, Its a good day.Live each day like its your last.
Reply:Seriously though, you can do the pencil motion with gloves on?
Reply:I use a glove, a tight deerskin one, and feeding rod for aluminum (for this beginner anyway) is very challenging - each dip just seems to suck up so much rod. Someday, someday.....
Reply:I use a glove on my filler hand all of the time.I'm actually better at feeding the rod with the glove on than without it now.It's all just a matter of what you're used to and what you like.- Paulhttp://all-a-cart.comWelding Cart Kits and accessories
Reply:Make sure your set on AC . Continous arc and if your turning blue you have heat problems probably from wrong gas or not enough gas or post flow.  Also you could be welding in a draft that is blowing your gas away from the weld area.  If it is balling up on top of the alum, especially if it's thick metal, preheat to 500 Degrees first.DonM > ASME High Pressure Vessel
Reply:One thing to check on the gas flow is, is the valve on the cylinder fully open? You might want to start your gas flow without welding and just watch the flowmeter for a minute or so to see if it fluctuates. Usually 20-25 cfh of argon works fine. Too much flow causes turbulence and wastes gas.
Reply:Originally Posted by jrfvOne thing to check on the gas flow is, is the valve on the cylinder fully open? You might want to start your gas flow without welding and just watch the flowmeter for a minute or so to see if it fluctuates. Usually 20-25 cfh of argon works fine. Too much flow causes turbulence and wastes gas.